[CT] Iron Tager Buffering 360 & 720

[Potemtager]

Buffering Tager drives: Start Posting. I try to jump and buffer but it isn't 100% yet.

[DoomieJ]

Seriously? We need this thread? People have jumped to buffer 360s since atleast SF2. It is the easiest thing in the world.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

Seriously? We need this thread?

People have jumped to buffer 360s since atleast SF2. It is the easiest thing in the world.

If you are jumping to buffer a 360 then you are a terrible player.

Now 720 is a different story, but jump in > 720 is really predictable and will extremely rarely work in BB for a lot of reasons. So yeah, it's worth discussing how to get real decent/tricky setups for it.

Anyway, 360 you don't need to buffer since you can just do the shortcut version of it.

720 is tricky and just needs a lot of practice, since you have to also not fuck up the input in addition to doing it when you can't jump. Easy boring setups are if you can force a block of 236A, 236B, or 2D. Make sure you time it to connect after they leave guard stun otherwise they can throw break it. Also, since 720 is invincible, you can use it as a 'frame trap' by making it look like you fucked up and left yourself at minor disadvantage, then 720 to punish their attempt to poke you.

Other good times to buffer it are off a jump (duh), or a neural tech recovery on the ground. Buffering it off a backdash is also really useful at times although clearly not as good as Potemkin's DB PB. The trick here is realizing that you can do the input for a 720 starting from back, so just double tap back then roll from there.

Other good places to tag people with it are if they tech roll back/foward/quick. You can throw them during the recoveries of this. An example (although not very good) is do to 360A, 236B (wiff), 720C. If they try to tech roll, they eat the 720.

Beating bursts with 720 is really easy. If you know a burst is coming, do 421B (Volt Charge), and buffer the 720C during that time.

Just remember that if you see something dumb and want to punish it but don't have time to buffer a 720C, a 360B is just as good of a punish! You get a free followup combo and you can blow 50% to make it do roughly the same damage as a 720. The real advantage of the 720C is that it's fast as hell and invincible, and has extra range, and they can burst the follow of the 360B.

[DoomieJ]

I just meant do we need a whole thread just for this, esp. since this is discussed in the tager thread and should be added to the complete guide. 720 whiff 720 really worked wonders last night, and i assume anything else whiffed to it would be solid. 2D is a sick tickthrow setup for tager as well man.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

Maybe, maybe not. Anything really worth reading will end up in the guide eventually I'm sure though. No harm in having an extra thread around for a separate discussion though, and it's not like this forum is packed with threads or anything. And I think landing his 720C in tricky situations is an important enough topic it could warrant some discussion.

[Potemtager]

Thanks alot. Those buffers sound really useful and I can't wait to try them. As for the reason I started this thread, Is because the other threads seem to wide spread plus people don't have read the whole first post to find what they are looking for. Anyway thanks again.

[Tiamat]

sorry but what is the shortcut for doing the 360 command? I forget EDIT: 632148+A/B works apparently. I guess that's the shortcut

[Fu11m3t41]

sorry but what is the shortcut for doing the 360 command? I forget

EDIT:

632148+A/B works apparently. I guess that's the shortcut

I think he means the Analog stick shortcut.

But i found the best way to get an easy 360 is, B Sledge > 632147B. Purple tech and is pretty fast.

[Potemtager]

The analog is up but you get the version so if you want the quick and invincible one, you have to do it maunally.

[CrazyI-nomitsu]

soemthing that starts a 236 motion maybe.

[Mike Z]

By "shortcut" he certainly meant 6321478+A/B - we shall refrain from discussing analog stick shortcuts because there's nothing to really discuss, and they're mostly for newbies anyway.

Other useful buffers are:

B/2B, 720 - neither of these moves is jump-cancellable, so you can do Ax2->B or A->2B, then 720 off the Bs. Again, make sure to wait long enough that you don't get a techable 720. Also, 2B vs. air, into 720 works wonders. Tager ducks very low during the 2B, so you can sometimes cause air moves to whiff.

Blocked 5D xx Corridor, 720 - Cancelling 5D into Corridor is only 1f slower recovery than canceling into Cross Your Heart (Charge). Neither is safe, but Corridor has a few bonuses: it makes it look like you screwed up, since people have learned to look for and hit Charge; it makes people decide not to jump, and attack instead, since you just did an anti-air grab; and if they did decide to jump it either grabs them or (if magnetized) flings them way far away so you can't be punished for trying the 720.

Knockdown, whiff Corridor, 720 - for when the opponent is in the corner. If you Corridor and they tech-roll forward or backward, you can 720 for free. Again, Corridor over Charge because Charge looks like a setup.

2B->2C that whiffs, 720 - if you screw up the distance and miss your combo, be ready to 720 people trying to react. Admittedly, 2C is slow to recover, but free damage is better than blocking. You couldn't cancel the 2C into 236A anyway, since you missed.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

Blocked 5D xx Corridor, 720 <-- And idea what kind of static difference this puts you at? Because that's hilarious.

[Mike Z]

I propose XYH for Cross Your Heart, lol.

I'm ignoring the attack level stuff, because it says the longest blockstun you get is 20f, which doesn't agree with frame data values so wtf...

5D from frame data: 4 active + 38 recovery, leaves you at -10...so if it hits on the first frame it can, that's 38+3-10 = 31 frames of blockstun. Or something, could be 30, could be 32, whatever. (That's a lot, wow.)

XYH: Shortest duration is 39f. Canceling into this (31f blockstun - 39f XYH) puts you at somewhere around -9.

Collider: 17 startup + 4 active + 19 recovery = 40f, only 1f longer than XYH. Canceling into this puts you at somewhere around -10, which is exactly the same as letting the 5D finish on its' own.

So they're both unsafe, but they're not VERY unsafe and they're both unsafe by the same amount.

[Tiamat]

this isn't necessarily about buffering the grabs but it is important and have not seen it mentioned

we know that his command grabs are breakable if the enemy is in blockstun or hitstun right? well there's ANOTHER time they can break it that I haven't seen mentioned yet

any normal canceled into command grab makes it breakable, even if they are not in hit or blockstun! edit: unless you do 6A to a fully charged 360A which is unbreakable apparently?

5A > 360B for example. they are not in hitstun or blockstun yet they can break it if you cancel to the 360B. if you wait and then do the 360 by itself of course it will be unbreakable.

ok to add more confusion, it seems like you can't cancel to 360s from some normals like 5C/5D/2B/2D etc. yet if you do 2B into a 360 quickly it will be breakable. so I guess this means doing a 360 right after they leave hitstun/blockstun makes it breakable as well? what a bunch of silliness I don't understand it lol

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

You still get frames of throw invincibility after you leave hit/guard stun just like GG. Except instead of being 'invincible' you just get the ability to break them.

[Fu11m3t41]

Yo whats Corridor? I feel like i missed something. Anyway, wouldnt 5a > 360b still count as hit stun since it IS technically a combo? I thought that the conditions for breaking out of a 360 were that if it was part of a combo, like 5a > 360a/b or B Sledge > 360 a/b. Correct me if im wrong.

[Tiamat]

man I always thought you could throw them the instant they left blockstun in GG. blah 5A 360 B is not a combo even if they don't break it, they can just get hit then backdash or jump

[Mike Z]

Gwgy is right - there are still 6-7f after they leave hitstun or blockstun where throws count as if they are in a combo. You can do 6A->360B as either breakable or unbreakable, depending on how long you wait to cancel it.

[Potemtager]

Yo whats Corridor? I feel like i missed something. Anyway, wouldnt 5a > 360b still count as hit stun since it IS technically a combo? I thought that the conditions for breaking out of a 360 were that if it was part of a combo, like 5a > 360a/b or B Sledge > 360 a/b. Correct me if im wrong.

I might have this wrong but I think it means atomic collider. It could have been lost in translation, but I've been wrong before.

[Kallinx]

I'm new to the forums but after reading around I decided to join up. I love to use Tager and went from maining Jin to maining Tager. I have problems on doing my 720 though. I can do the 360 just fine but on buffering the 720...I dont know if i'm timing it wrong or what but I just can pull it off when I know I completed the input. Any help on what I can do?

[Osuna]

I'm new to the forums but after reading around I decided to join up. I love to use Tager and went from maining Jin to maining Tager. I have problems on doing my 720 though. I can do the 360 just fine but on buffering the 720...I dont know if i'm timing it wrong or what but I just can pull it off when I know I completed the input. Any help on what I can do?

If you're close on timing, you can hold down the C input till you see the super flash. I do that sometimes when I do the input during a slow move and I underestimate the recovery time.

[Kallinx]

If you're close on timing, you can hold down the C input till you see the super flash. I do that sometimes when I do the input during a slow move and I underestimate the recovery time.

Hold down the C input? Hmm..I tried doing that and I still couldn't do it but I was able to manage to pull off the 720 after my 2D and 5C. Maybe I wasn't putting in the rotations correctly afterall. Thanks for your help though. i'll still give holding it in a try.

[SWATwolf]

having a little trouble doing 720, after reading, might give them all a try :D

[taokaka]

For some reason i believe im the only one who does not have trouble doing tager 720 or his astral finish lol....maybe that because i roll the joystick really freaking fast >:D

[Fu11m3t41]

I usually empty jump into 720 on recovery. Yea its older then dirt, but it works. Also, buffering off 6a is sexy too.