[CT] Iron Tager Buffering 360 & 720

[Mike Z]

Yeah, the no Up recovery and no jumping would be a huge liability.

No Up recovery doesn't hurt THAT much, I use it maybe once every ten games or so. However, as far as I've tested you can't 720 without doing at least one full 360, and you can't even skip a direction in that first 360, so this wouldn't get you 720s.

(As noted in the standing 720 thread, you can skip directions later on - 6321478963 78+C works.)

[kensk]

No Up recovery doesn't hurt THAT much,

litchi

[Mike Z]

litchi

Oh, poor kensk (and Nobus3r1)...I was really hoping someone would catch it. There is no Up recovery in BB - it's exactly the same as neutral. Your ground tech options are: 4 or 1; 2; 3 or 6; and 7,8,9, or 5. So the lack of Up tech wouldn't hinder your play at all.

Does this mean ken will finally stop being a jerk when he thinks people don't know what they're talking about? Tune in next week!

[individuals]

Oh, poor kensk (and Nobus3r1)...I was really hoping someone would catch it. There is no Up recovery in BB - it's exactly the same as neutral. Your ground tech options are: 4 or 1; 2; 3 or 6; and 7,8,9, or 5. So the lack of Up tech wouldn't hinder your play at all.

Does this mean ken will finally stop being a jerk when he thinks people don't know what they're talking about? Tune in next week!

i was gonna say "isnt up tech just neutral tech?" but i felt that by the off chance i was wrong i was gonna get it.

i shall be brave next time!

[A.X.I.S.]

i was gonna say "isnt up tech just neutral tech?" but i felt that by the off chance i was wrong i was gonna get it.

i shall be brave next time!

if you think your right then say something, its not like they are gonna go to your house and beat you with sticks. -_-

besides we all are learning too, hey didnt i fight you the other day? o_O

[individuals]

yes we did fight. i think we fought twice and the second time i pitted my tager against yours(?)

[kensk]

Oh, poor kensk (and Nobus3r1)...I was really hoping someone would catch it. There is no Up recovery in BB - it's exactly the same as neutral. Your ground tech options are: 4 or 1; 2; 3 or 6; and 7,8,9, or 5. So the lack of Up tech wouldn't hinder your play at all.

Does this mean ken will finally stop being a jerk when he thinks people don't know what they're talking about? Tune in next week!

hey even i make mistakes and im willing to own up to them~

[A.X.I.S.]

yes we did fight. i think we fought twice and the second time i pitted my tager against yours(?)

i know i fought your litchi, but i dont think i fought your tager.

hmm tager fight..i need more tager fights. x_x

[ShinsoBEAM]

technically the shortest input is this:

42684268+C

It's possible without using any kara... just not necessarily by us humans.

Didn't know you could cancel jump startup until Kensk mentioned this thread on irc... so I never gave any thought about standing 720 being possible for humans or veterus.

Well lets see if you can spin the stick twice in like 8-9 frames you should be good, heh.

[HZMN]

Well lets see if you can spin the stick twice in like 8-9 frames you should be good, heh.

the trick is not activating the jump, not the actual spin motion.

[ShinsoBEAM]

the trick is not activating the jump, not the actual spin motion.

I thought you just did it before the jump came out 6 frames, thus if you did it in 8 frames you would be fine if I am correct, because the the jump startup shouldn't start until you press up on the 4th frame, assuming your perfect speed, which yeah is p. much impossible.

[renegadewolf]

I uploaded the video on youtube incase people had trouble watching it on nico.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDXAooOOX7Y&feature=channel_page

[IronTager]

Wow... I didn't think it was possible... It has to be mentioned here somehow as to HOW he did it... Right? Does anybody know? It's a bit too blurry to see his controls...

[ShinsoBEAM]

Wow... I didn't think it was possible... It has to be mentioned here somehow as to HOW he did it... Right? Does anybody know? It's a bit too blurry to see his controls...

Read the thread man its only like 3 pages, its not like its 20 or anything.

[brilliant green]

Wow... I didn't think it was possible... It has to be mentioned here somehow as to HOW he did it... Right? Does anybody know? It's a bit too blurry to see his controls...

Don't stress too much. It really isn't all that good.

[HZMN]

I still say its highly impractical considering the precision that must be used. I'll stick to buffering off of 5B, AC, and backdashing (or any other non jumpcancellable moves)

[IronTager]

Read the thread man its only like 3 pages, its not like its 20 or anything.

True, but I barely have time to really even type that much and I barely got to watch the video, I had to head out to College so I can only read things here and there, plus, I have homework and two exams coming up *Sigh* I can't even stay on long enough to read it.

@brilliant green

Yeah, I can see what you mean, still though, if you get really good at it, it might trick your opponents, how many people would really expect you to do a 720 without jumping or Buffering?

[EiseneFaust]

How many people would really expect you to do a 720 without jumping or Buffering?

Think of it this way: how many people allow Tager to walk up to them to let him do this?

I'm thinking the answer is: "not anyone on purpose".

It's just better to IB > 720 or be in a pressure combo with a non-jump cancelable move like what was suggested by HZMN. The point being random really-cool-way-to-input-a-super is still random and punishable.

[EDIT] I'm actually curious. I just kinda assumed that you can't 720 airborne opponents. Is this the case? If so then it seems that most of the players in the video, if they noticed the super flash quick enough, may be able to back dash in that 5 frame freeze (http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/02#backstep). Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the frame data and it's 5+0 meaning 5 frames until super freeze then +0 frames after the freeze until it becomes active. Which means it grabs you if you are in range of it no matter what your reaction speed is when the super freeze occurs.

[Mike Z]

how many people allow Tager to walk up to them to let him do this?

[snip]

0 frames after the freeze until it becomes active

You are correct, if you are able to be thrown on the frame of the superfreeze, there is nothing you can do during it or afterward.

Also, standing 720s in general have many uses, you don't just walk up and 720:

- Bigger range than either 360 means you can do it from max 5A range, when your opponent wouldn't be scared and jumping.

- Not having to buffer it from something means you don't have to wait through another move first. This combined with the fact that 720 is actually Tager's fastest move (5f) means you can punish whiffs that are normally unpunishable or out of range. For example, if Rachel whiffs a j.2C in front of you: buffering with 2B/5B/etc will hit her, thus allowing her to escape; buffering from throw whiff would just throw her, thus allowing her to throw escape; buffering from backdash or XYH is too slow, thus allowing her to escape; but a standing 720 would work.

That said, the precision required makes this nearly useless in real play. :^(

[ShinsoBEAM]

42684268+C is possible, and 41236987419+C is possible, then is 4268419+C possible... I was thinking this might actually be physically possible on a square gate, it would at least make karaing it easier. Or at least my main problem on square gates is skipping the corners but If I know I can ignore them I can go faster and not focus about them as much.

[EiseneFaust]

Thanks for filling me in MikeZ.

buffering from backdash or XYH is too slow, thus allowing her to escape; but a standing 720 would work.

What is XYH? I've seen this around but I'm unclear what it is.

[bjholmes2]

421B; also known as Voltic Charge.

[ShinsoBEAM]

So does anyone know if 4268419+C is possible... just more of a curiosity.

[IronTager]

Think of it this way: how many people allow Tager to walk up to them to let him do this?

I'm thinking the answer is: "not anyone on purpose".

It's just better to IB > 720 or be in a pressure combo with a non-jump cancelable move like what was suggested by HZMN. The point being random really-cool-way-to-input-a-super is still random and punishable.

[EDIT] I'm actually curious. I just kinda assumed that you can't 720 airborne opponents. Is this the case? If so then it seems that most of the players in the video, if they noticed the super flash quick enough, may be able to back dash in that 5 frame freeze (http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/02#backstep). Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the frame data and it's 5+0 meaning 5 frames until super freeze then +0 frames after the freeze until it becomes active. Which means it grabs you if you are in range of it no matter what your reaction speed is when the super freeze occurs.

Well, true, however, I more refer to defensive purposes. The biggest advantage of this move is that, because you don't buffer it off of an attack, they can't tech it. Though, I guess in a way, it would be not so good because of how accurate you'd have to be, however, that just requires practice if anything, plus, doing it probably isn't all that beneficial otherwise... *Sigh* Still, it's interesting to know and possibly increases your handling better.

[Osuna]

[EDIT] I'm actually curious. I just kinda assumed that you can't 720 airborne opponents. Is this the case? If so then it seems that most of the players in the video, if they noticed the super flash quick enough, may be able to back dash in that 5 frame freeze (http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/02#backstep). Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the frame data and it's 5+0 meaning 5 frames until super freeze then +0 frames after the freeze until it becomes active. Which means it grabs you if you are in range of it no matter what your reaction speed is when the super freeze occurs.

I didn't see this get addressed, but I'm kinda loopy right now so I wouldn't know.

Anyway. Yes you could backdash, but in many cases they we get thrown at the end of the backdash, the easiest answer is to just hold up if the flash happens before you land.