[CT] Iron Tager vs. Iron Tager

[A.X.I.S.]

I'm generally skeptical of your advice, and I leave it alone, but: you certainly can backdash a 360 if you're magnetized. 360B isn't active for nearly long enough to get a backdash, and 360A you can get around if you can guess when they'll release it. (It's not like Sledge Followup, which you can't backdash at all since it's active for longer than you are invincible.)

As for 5C->5D->BSledge, you can 360A between the C and D even without instant blocking...and you can always backdash the Sledge and 360B.

i just had bad luck, i had a magnet on me and tried to back dash a 360 a, backdashed right into it..nonetheless if you did it before than im wrong, i have shitty on back dash, which im trying to work on.

[brningpyre]

The best part about these matches is you can save the replay, when the other Tager completely owns you. Too bad it doesn't let you save VS replays. I'd love to have replays to go over from when I bring in my 360 to the downtown gaming cafe. The other Tager there is much better than me, and I've been learning from him a lot. I've found it's generally a bad idea to go for the 360A right off the bat, because everyone expects (read: punishes) it.

[DoomieJ]

instant jB is really strong in this match, fyi. beats throws, hits him crouching (if its fuzzy guard)

Ken, you are the man. This is all i will start with from now on in TvT.

[A.X.I.S.]

ok last night was unusual i beat 720 with a 360. can anyone explain why this happened?

[Osuna]

ok last night was unusual i beat 720 with a 360.

can anyone explain why this happened?

360A invuln from frame 2 to 11, 720 invuln frame 1 to 5

Edit, this was typed in a hurry because my bus had arrived and has some errors in it, but I see good ol' MikeZ has picked up the slack.

[Mike Z]

To put that differently: 720 - 5f of invincibility, then superflash, then 1f of invin during grab attempt, then more frames of grab attempts which are vulnerable. 360a - 3f of vulnerability, then 8f of invin with a grab attempt during the invin. If your 360A is invin when the superflash from the 720 happens, the 720 will lose its invin but the 360 will still be invin when its grab happens...so the 360 wins because it can't be grabbed by the 720 until after it tries to grab. Same reason why, if 2 Tagers 720 in range of each other, the later one will win - the earlier one will lose invin first. [edit] Note that if you hold the 360a so that the invincibility runs out before the grab attempt happens, it will lose to a held 720.

[ShinsoBEAM]

^^^ yeah that happened to me today 720,720, I was on the losing side .

[A.X.I.S.]

thanks for the explanation.. both of you...

[Hydrogyn]

To put that differently:

720 - 5f of invincibility, then superflash, then 1f of invin during grab attempt, then more frames of grab attempts which are vulnerable.

360a - 3f of vulnerability, then 8f of invin with a grab attempt during the invin.

If your 360A is invin when the superflash from the 720 happens, the 720 will lose its invin but the 360 will still be invin when its grab happens...so the 360 wins because it can't be grabbed by the 720 until after it tries to grab.

Same reason why, if 2 Tagers 720 in range of each other, the later one will win - the earlier one will lose invin first.

[edit] Note that if you hold the 360a so that the invincibility runs out before the grab attempt happens, it will lose to a held 720.

Me and AxisThebeast last night, Just barely out of each others range did 720 almost at the same time (like 2 frames difference) we were both magnetised. Oddly neither off us were pulled in by each other even though I checked the replay (sadly I don't have a capture card) to confirm we are both magnetised. To add He did 5D after both of 720 whiffs as I backdashed and I got sucked in due to magnetism (for a 360 A)

The hand in the animation both were on top of each other like it was a arm wrestling match or something. So I really don't know why we weren't Pulled toward each other but I thought it was something really odd.

[ShinsoBEAM]

Speaking of which if you 720 on the same frame what happens

[A.X.I.S.]

that was a good win last night hydrogyn lol. and i would believe we didn't get sucked in because some moves are immune to magnetism..either that or we couldn't pull each other in or the world would explode.

[kensk]

Speaking of which if you 720 on the same frame what happens

nothing, just like what happens with every other 720 in every other game?

[A.X.I.S.]

hmm yeah your invincible on the same frames but while holding it you can't grab one another! my head hurts!! argh.

[Mike Z]

360s/720s/etc are not affected by another Tager's magnetism, so if you are out of range you can hold it for as long as you want and nothing will happen. As far as I know, there is no such thing as "on the same frame" supers in BB, unlike in GG. If you are in range, whichever super flash happens second will win out.

[ShinsoBEAM]

360s/720s/etc are not affected by another Tager's magnetism, so if you are out of range you can hold it for as long as you want and nothing will happen.

As far as I know, there is no such thing as "on the same frame" supers in BB, unlike in GG. If you are in range, whichever super flash happens second will win out.

Ahh so one player will super flash first even if the input is at the same frame...probably player 1.

[A.X.I.S.]

that makes a whole lot of sense...thanks for clearing this up.

[Hydrogyn]

I honestly hate how much different this matchup feels than any other matchup. I'm sure exactly why, but I think it has to do with the slow pace of the match.

[ShinsoBEAM]

I honestly hate how much different this matchup feels than any other matchup. I'm sure exactly why, but I think it has to do with the slow pace of the match.

I think I just fought you recently I was the one who for some reason bursted at like 100% health I have no idea why I did this. And next round I was like heh he is going to collider whiff and im going to totally tech and j.2C his face and get a CH from his 720, then the j.2C didn't come out and my plan was ruined .

[Hydrogyn]

I think I just fought you recently I was the one who for some reason bursted at like 100% health I have no idea why I did this. And next round I was like heh he is going to collider whiff and im going to totally tech and j.2C his face and get a CH from his 720, then the j.2C didn't come out and my plan was ruined .

Yeah that was me, you recovered twice in that at real bad times. But I am really crappy at the moment Since I am trying to get the hang of using a stick, since I fought you my f-pad went out I decided to go ahead start using a stick.

[ShinsoBEAM]

Yeah that was me, you recovered twice in that at real bad times. But I am really crappy at the moment Since I am trying to get the hang of using a stick, since I fought you my f-pad went out I decided to go ahead start using a stick.

I was actually experimenting with beating shit cause I realized you knew what you were doing and I don't often get a chance to experiment with shit but the second one should of damn well worked IDK why it didn't... I play both stick and pad about equally right now, sometimes I have problems with the 720 if I forget I can't actually do a real 720 on a stick quickly and only the gimped version.

But yeah thats tager fights 1 mistake and whammo 1/2 your life, also my win ratio is higher now at like 62% woooo, also do you have the problem of getting matches I have chanllenged matches from lv 50-60s that have like a 50-55% win chance constantly denying challenges(I have never played them before).

Also the large amount of people that don't pick there main and go nu(normally a free win)/arakune/or tager against me gets very annoying.

[Commanderoftroy]

Yeah that was me, you recovered twice in that at real bad times. But I am really crappy at the moment Since I am trying to get the hang of using a stick, since I fought you my f-pad went out I decided to go ahead start using a stick.

I know i played hydrogyn not to long ago didnt know he was a dustloop member ha believe ya did beat me and it seems most good tagers are up on dustloop here. I have a stick coming in today and i think its going to take a while to get use to it.

[Hydrogyn]

Yeah I have fought most of you on xbox, I tend to be more reactive in tager fights, than the aggressor, I got you only cause you gave me the wake-up 720 twice, once after you had just 720'd me heh. Tofu didn't fall for that although when I fought him, and yeah I just got my stick today I am finding some moves easier other harder (like magna and collider)

[ShinsoBEAM]

Yeah I have fought most of you on xbox, I tend to be more reactive in tager fights, than the aggressor, I got you only cause you gave me the wake-up 720 twice, once after you had just 720'd me heh.

Tofu didn't fall for that although when I fought him, and yeah I just got my stick today I am finding some moves easier other harder (like magna and collider)

really I find DP movements like crazy easy on a stick magna is a bit weird though.

[Commanderoftroy]

Yeah I have fought most of you on xbox, I tend to be more reactive in tager fights, than the aggressor, I got you only cause you gave me the wake-up 720 twice, once after you had just 720'd me heh.

Tofu didn't fall for that although when I fought him, and yeah I just got my stick today I am finding some moves easier other harder (like magna and collider)

Yeah i just played you tonight i got a stick but i need a lot more practice with it to take it into matches i do think you can be a lot more consistant with colliders but 720s i cant get to come out as smoothly or fast yet supposed to be able to do it without touch the gate but i cant get that to work.

[Hydrogyn]

Yeah i just played you tonight i got a stick but i need a lot more practice with it to take it into matches i do think you can be a lot more consistant with colliders but 720s i cant get to come out as smoothly or fast yet supposed to be able to do it without touch the gate but i cant get that to work.

yeah that is my problem with several things, backdashing collider anything that isn't a fluid move I have problems with getting it off without touching the gate I am working on my other controler in ranked, I'm nowhere near ready to try the stick in anything serious yet. I can pull the 720 off alot easier than the pad but I am still touching the gate, But with I seem to have trouble mostly with Backdashes and collider (without touching the gate that is, first time using a stick in years since GGX).

I do in notice general 720 Off of C and D attacks alot easier and 41236 is also, than the fightpads.