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BananaKun

[P4AU] List of issues with the wiki's frame data

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Dustloop's wiki is always one of the main tools I use when learning a new anime game. It's always been the best way for me to learn things from my character, how to fight other characters and overall it's a great reference to peek at when you're not sure about something. It's helped me a LOT through P4A, BBCP1.0 and BBCP1.1. Now that I'm trying to get up to speed in P4AU, I've run into multiple problems while using this game's wiki, and it just slows you down to a crawl whenever you run into missing, incomplete or downright incorrect data.

For example:

  • Narukami's SB Issen listed as having projectile invulnerability from frames 1-16, it's actually only on frames 4-5 (estimated)
  • Adachi's SB Atom Smasher is listed as 3+3, but is actually 5+1
  • DLC chars are missing large amounts of frame data, mostly active frame, recovery frames and attack level stuff. Some moves just aren't listed
Yes, you can just verify this data and just training mode everything, but that is also a massive waste of time if you need to do this for every single situation you run into. The first two examples are already fixed, but it's very possible that there's more like that. It's easy to verify that SB Issen doesn't actually have projectile invul from frames 1-16, but the fact this was listed wrong is troubling; worst case scenario someone could have just read that and believe the wiki so they might never try projectile based oki on Narukami if he has 75 meter. Adachi's is also easy to verify, but 3+3 implies that you could in fact try to roll through it and this is obviously not the case which is confusing and frustrating.

I use active frames, recovery frames and attack level data all the time just to get a feel for a move's properties at a glance. It's not a substitute for playing against the character and dealing with that move in a real match but it lets me get an idea of how to deal with it. This way, when I sit in training mode I don't waste any time doing things I know won't work.

As I find errors or figure out new frame data that isn't listed I'll add them, but I can't possibly find and/or fix everything on my own. Below is a list of problems I've found so far. I'm hoping the P4AU community could help in fixing the wiki, as this would help any competitive P4AU player. A lot of this information is not trivial to obtain, and I understand that. But at the very least if you notice that your character is on this list and the data is out there, letting people know here (or adding to/correcting the wiki) would be amazing. Feel free to post if you find any issues not listed here as well and I will add them to this post.

Some important things to keep in mind:

  • Every character has a wiki page AND a frame data page. When editing, please make sure to edit BOTH pages, so that the frame data and the wiki page agree.
  • DO NOT PUT 2.0 CHANGES ON 1.1 PAGES. All 2.0 wiki pages will be clearly labeled with (P4AU2) at the end of the URL. Narukami's 1.1 frame data page contained 2.0 notes, such as Cross Slash being Fatal Recovery but not D and SB Swift Strike; this has been fixed, but not every value has been double-checked. (A Narukami main would be best for that.)
  • If you aren't proficient at or simply don't like editing the wiki, that's fine, but if you know where frame data for console characters can be found, please post the links and/or data here and mixedmethods will add it. (Or possibly someone else will! Who knows?) For example, Margaret's 1.1 frame data is available in an Evernote, which is what I've been using while filling in her 1.1 frame data page. You can find her data here.
  • If your character doesn't have a fleshed out wiki page and frame data page, anyone is free to start a thread in the relevant subforum to gather info and coordinate work. Even if you aren't the most knowledgeable player, collecting known values helps people like me (who may not know much about a certain character) when it comes to building frame data pages. This includes notes such as "+[value] when done as close as possible." (Ken, Narukami, and I believe Naoto as well (at least in P4U1) all have such threads -- they're helpful.)
  • If you plan to or in fact do edit to fix a known issue, please leave a note here so it can be crossed off the to-do list.
  • While anyone can edit the wiki, uploading images requires an account. If you would like to create an account, please send a direct message to AnneIFrank here on Dustloop. Twitter is not an effective way of contacting Anne.
List of known issues: (if they are fixed, they will be crossed out)

Aigis:

Akihiko:

Chie:

Elizabeth:

Junpei:

  • 236236D start-up is incorrect; it is actually 0f after super flash if the bat is swung immediately.
  • 2D start-up is incorrect. It is either 25 or 26 frame startup. Tested via punishing Akihiko's DP, which is -24; not punishable without IB, but with IB you get a punish.
  • All homerun damage values for for 236236A/B/C/D are incorrect, as there are differences between using A/C and B/D to swing the bat. Requires testing to confirm exact values.
Kanji:

Ken:

  • Recovery frames missing
  • Active frames missing
  • Awakening super frame data incomplete/missing. His DP super is listed as just "7" instead of something like 4+3 (made that up)
  • IK frame data missing
Labrys:

Margaret:

  • Active frames missing
  • Recovery frames missing
  • Attack levels missing
  • Mediarahan frame data missing
Marie:
  • Active frames missing
  • Attack levels missing
Mitsuru:
  • Values for various cancels (hop-cancel j.B and j., 5C dash cancel at 3/6/9/etc. hits) is missing
  • Tentarafoo frame advantage is missing
Naoto:

Rise:

  • Attack levels missing
  • Attack attributes missing
  • Startup time for Tetrakarn/Makarakarn missing
  • Damage values for Hysterical Slap and Risette Field missing
Shadow Labrys:
  • SB Titanomachia landing recovery not listed Now has an estimate
  • SB Titanomachia invul not listed
SHO Minazuki:
  • 5B is missing an image
  • 5C has an incorrect damage value, should be 600
  • 2B is three hits, should have damage values of 300, 150, 150
  • j. C is two hits, should have damage values of 400, 200
  • j. 2C has an incorrect damage value, should be 700
  • Survival Knife is missing an image
  • A Hougetsuzan: Soaring Fang has an incorrect damage value, should be 700
  • All multi-hitting normals (5B, 2B, j. B, j. C) have a unique property - the first hit that connects with the opponent will do the first, higher damage value. So for example, if you use 2B from beyond the first hit's range but the second two hits connect, it'll do 450 damage (300+150), not 300 (150+150).
  • P Combo System: You can only do a combined total of two 5B and 2B per string. 5B > 5C > 5B works; 5C > 5B > 2B works; 5B > 5C> 5B > 2B does not.
Sho MINAZUKI:

Teddie:

  • j.2C data is missing
  • Startup time for Teddie Warp is missing
  • Mystery Teddie SP startup and recovery is ambigious; in the latter's case, Teddie can perform any non-Persona action as soon as his Persona starts throwing items, and any Persona-based action after the last item is thrown
  • Nihil Hand incorrectly says that it can't be cancelled into anything; strictly speaking, it can be OMCed or OMBed ONLY on block
  • Tomahawk's damage for the SB version is incorrect
  • Turbo Recon Dynamo has awkward listing of its active frames [23(26)23(26)43(26)23(26)23(26)42(26)23(26)23]; makes sense because of how the item works, but looks messy
  • Mystery Food X still says it inflicts Poison; it only inflicts Silence and Fear in 1.1
  • Startup time for Motorcycle Key after it's picked up is missing
  • Startup times for Amagiya Buckets missing
  • Active frames for Vanish Ball, Pinwheel and Amagiya Buckets missing
  • Circus Bear is not a projectile.
Adachi:
  • SB atom smasher is listed 3+3, should be 5+1
  • Recovery frames missing
  • Active frames missing
  • Attack levels missing
  • IK frame data missing
Yosuke:

Narukami:

  • SB Issen listed as 1-16 projectile invul, should be 4-5
Yukari:
  • 2C proration is incorrect
  • 5A frame advantage is incorrect
Yukiko:
  • SB Agidyne doesn't have the full damage values for the held versions (it says 50 instead of 50*N like the C version)

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Teddie:

j.2C data is missing

Startup time for Teddie Warp is missing

Mystery Teddie SP startup and recovery is ambigious; in the latter's case, Teddie can perform any non-Persona action as soon as his Persona starts throwing items, and any Persona-based action after the last item is thrown

Nihil Hand incorrectly says that it can't be cancelled into anything; strictly speaking, it can be OMCed or OMBed ONLY on block

Tomahawk's damage for the SB version is incorrect

Turbo Recon Dynamo has awkward listing of its active frames [23(26)23(26)43(26)23(26)23(26)42(26)23(26)23]; makes sense because of how the item works, but looks messy

Mystery Food X still says it inflicts Poison; it only inflicts Silence and Fear in 1.1

Startup time for Motorcycle Key after it's picked up is missing

Startup times for Amagiya Buckets missing

Active frames for Vanish Ball, Pinwheel and Amagiya Buckets missing

 

Rise

Attack attributes missing

Startup time for Tetrakarn/Makarakarn missing

Damage values for Hysterical Slap and Risette Field missing

 

Yukiko

SB Agidyne doesn't have the full damage values for the held versions (it says 50 instead of 50*N like the C version)

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Teddie

Mystery Teddie SP has now been updated.

Nihil Hand's description notes that it's OMC/OMB cancellable on block only, but I can edit the description to make that info more prominent.

Circus Bear is not a projectile.

Mitsuru

Values for various cancels (hop-cancel j.B and j., 5C dash cancel at 3/6/9/etc. hits) is missing (I have the info and will put it in).

Tentrafoo frame advantage is missing (have info, will add it).

I already added a note on the frame advantage for 5B and 5 dash-cancels.

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Isn't Circus Bear considered a projectile in the 'Yukiko can be immune to it through Dia' sense? Haven't actually tested it in Ultimax.

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Isn't Circus Bear considered a projectile in the 'Yukiko can be immune to it through Dia' sense? Haven't actually tested it in Ultimax.

iirc no since i remember trying that

of course im not 100% sure

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Isn't Circus Bear considered a projectile in the 'Yukiko can be immune to it through Dia' sense? Haven't actually tested it in Ultimax.

Only the startup is immune to everything. Yukiko can't hold down healing and dodge it anymore, she get's hit now.

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If anyone wants to add this Marie has invul on her Shining arrows super it starts at F1 and ends at about F20 or F25

Please try to narrow it down as much as possible, that's important info on that move though.

Edit:

Margaret evernote with frame data, at a glance it doesn't seem to contain new information?

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s492/sh/26aab915-2998-4b99-9cf0-795ef454f923/3061cd68095565930f0884dd3a68a0aa

Now that I think about it, probably the easiest important thing to fill out for the DLC characters would be their gatling tables. If someone doesn't beat me to it by this weekend I'll give that a go.

Edited by BananaKun

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Teddie

Mystery Food X now lists the correct ailments.

SB Tomahawk has been edited.

A few notes that may or may not belong in the OP:

  • Every character has a wiki page AND a frame data page. When editing, please make sure to edit BOTH pages, so that the frame data and the wiki page agree.
  • 1.1 frame data pages were filled in by Omex, pre-1.1 (i.e., back during 1.0, before the console characters were released). This is why Narukami's SB Issen's start-up was listed incorrectly until recently (it was 5+0 in 1.0, which was changed in 1.1), AoA C enders specify that X number of hits are required during the All Out Rush to inflict Fatal on normal hit, Titanomachia SB had no values until BananaKen tested (and broke the game in the process), etc.
  • DO NOT PUT 2.0 CHANGES ON 1.1 PAGES. Narukami's 1.1 frame data page contained 2.0 notes, such as Cross Slash being Fatal Recovery but not D and SB Swift Strike; I have already fixed those edits, but I haven't had a chance to double-check every value. (A Narukami main would be best for that.)
  • For reference: this is Narukami's 2.0 wiki page, which links to his 2.0 frame data page. Note that Kevin has warning boxes on 2.0 pages stating that all data was copied from 1.1. A few characters have 2.0 frame data tables already, most don't. If you want to edit in 2.0 changes, that's fine, but please be certain to use the correct page. When in doubt, leave the warnings intact.
  • If you aren't proficient at or simply don't like editing the wiki, that's fine, but if you know where frame data for console characters can be found, please post the links and/or data here and I will add it. (Or possibly someone else will! Who knows?) For example, Margaret's 1.1 frame data is available in an Evernote, which is what I've been using while filling in her 1.1 frame data page. You can find her data here.
  • If your character doesn't have a fleshed out wiki page and frame data page, anyone is free to start a thread in the relevant subforum to gather info and coordinate work. Even if you aren't the most knowledgeable player, collecting known values helps people like me (who may not know much about a certain character) when it comes to building frame data pages. This includes notes such as "+[value] when done as close as possible." (Ken, Narukami, and I believe Naoto as well (at least in P4U1) all have such threads -- they're helpful.)
  • If you plan to or in fact do edit to fix a known issue, please leave a note here so it can be crossed off the to-do list.
Narukami

1.1 wiki and frame data pages need to be reviewed and edited as required to ensure data is accurate for 1.1.

Finally, Circus Bear is absolutely not a projectile. I'm ashamed to admit this, but I assumed it was common knowledge and didn't fix the error because I figured a Kuma main would do so. In any event, it's been tested and Circus Bear is absolutely a strike. (Which has implications for anyone who attempts to escape a set-up with Guard Cancel Roll and/or Evasive Action, by the way...!)

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SHO Minazuki:

  • 5B is missing an image
  • 5C has an incorrect damage value, should be 600
  • 2B is three hits, should have damage values of 300, 150, 150
  • j. C is two hits, should have damage values of 400, 200
  • j. 2C has an incorrect damage value, should be 700
  • Survival Knife is missing an image
  • A Hougetsuzan: Soaring Fang has an incorrect damage value, should be 700
  • All multi-hitting normals (5B, 2B, j. B, j. C) have a unique property - the first hit that connects with the opponent will do the first, higher damage value. So for example, if you use 2B from beyond the first hit's range but the second two hits connect, it'll do 450 damage (300+150), not 300 (150+150).
  • P Combo System: You can only do a combined total of two 5B and 2B per string. 5B > 5C > 5B works; 5C > 5B > 2B works; 5B > 5C> 5B > 2B does not.

All of this is easy to verify in training mode, but it bugs me that it's not in the wiki. 

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  • DO NOT PUT 2.0 CHANGES ON 1.1 PAGES. Narukami's 1.1 frame data page contained 2.0 notes, such as Cross Slash being Fatal Recovery but not D and SB Swift Strike; I have already fixed those edits, but I haven't had a chance to double-check every value. (A Narukami main would be best for that.)

 

Sorry, that was my mistake. I'll get to undoing those changes right away. Also worth noting that the image I uploaded for Mitsuru's Bufula 1.1 is wrong (as it's for 2.0)

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SHO Minazuki:

I added this to the OP.

A note on the images: there's a LOT of missing images for multiple characters. Documenting these would help a lot in fixing it as soon as possible (again, I'll add them as I run into them when using the wiki). The only problem is that a lot of the existing images seem to be sprite rips, and honestly if I were to do it I would just settle for a simple HD screenshot through a capture card. The priority should be to just fill out the missing entries through the easiest means; anything is better than a missing image.

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I took a quick glance at Adachi's page and aside from what BananaKen already said I'd say:

 

-Add images for 5C (Stab, Swing and Stomp)

-Add image for Evil Smile.

-2B is not a low. You can guard standing.  << Edited already though

 

I'll make sure to check again when I can and report back here.

 

I've also been trying to replace said images, but you need an account on DL's wiki, don't you? If someone could add this images for me (If you see them fitting, of course)

 

Smile : https://imgur.com/E0SPjc7

5C Stab : https://imgur.com/YgY2vQp,9t3DeIG

5C Swing : https://imgur.com/YgY2vQp,9t3DeIG#1

5C Slam: https://imgur.com/6GrHElq

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If anyone wanted to go through and get attack images, here are all the moves that currently don't have any:

 

  • Aigis: j.2C, Extreme Orgia Mode
  • Adachi: 2C, j.2C, Megidola
  • Akihiko: 5AAA, 2C, Sonic Punch
  • Chie: 5AAA
  • Elizabeth: 5BB, 5BBB, Debilitate
  • Junpei: None!
  • Kanji: 5AA, 5AAA, Primal Force
  • Ken: 5D, Gigantic Impact, Mediarama
  • Labrys: 5AA, 5AAA, Weaver's Art: Orb
  • Magaret: None!
  • Marie: All Persona normals, Hot Lightning, It's All Yours, "Dance, Fallen Angels", Memories of Grief, Her Name is "Hope (Pandora)", Stigma of Condemnation, Abysmal Evil Eye, all Supers, Instant Kill
  • Mitsuru: 5AA, 5AAA
  • Naoto: 5AA, 5AAA, Blight
  • Rise: All Persona normals, Reflective Bit, ROCK YOU!, Tetrakarn/Makarakarn, Arrow Rain, Risette Field, Risette: Live on Stage, True Story
  • Shadow Labrys: Public Execution
  • SHO: 5B, Survival Knife
  • Minazuki: 2D, Wings of Purgatory, Dream Fog
  • Teddie: 5AA, 5AAA, j.2C, Motorcycle Key, Turbo Recon Dynamo, D-Type Prithvi, Mobile Model Varna, Mystery Teddie SP, Nihil Hand
  • Yosuke: None!
  • Yu: None!
  • Yukari: None!
  • Yukiko: 5AA, 5AAA, Flame Dance, Phoenix Flame Swirl

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Rise

Startup time for Tetrakarn/Makarakarn missing

 

 

Moves like Tetrakarn/Makarakarn don't have startup. Only a total number of recovery frames needed to finish the action (In this case, setting up the shields). 

 

SHO Minazuki:

  • 5B is missing an image
  • 5C has an incorrect damage value, should be 600
  • 2B is three hits, should have damage values of 300, 150, 150
  • j. C is two hits, should have damage values of 400, 200
  • j. 2C has an incorrect damage value, should be 700
  • Survival Knife is missing an image
  • A Hougetsuzan: Soaring Fang has an incorrect damage value, should be 700
  • All multi-hitting normals (5B, 2B, j. B, j. C) have a unique property - the first hit that connects with the opponent will do the first, higher damage value. So for example, if you use 2B from beyond the first hit's range but the second two hits connect, it'll do 450 damage (300+150), not 300 (150+150).
  • P Combo System: You can only do a combined total of two 5B and 2B per string. 5B > 5C > 5B works; 5C > 5B > 2B works; 5B > 5C> 5B > 2B does not.

All of this is easy to verify in training mode, but it bugs me that it's not in the wiki. 

 

Everything scratched out I fixed. Though, the P-Combo stuff was already covered in his gatling table by someone else before I got there. 

 

 

I've also been trying to replace said images, but you need an account on DL's wiki, don't you? If someone could add this images for me (If you see them fitting, of course)

 

Smile : https://imgur.com/E0SPjc7

5C Stab : https://imgur.com/YgY2vQp,9t3DeIG

5C Swing : https://imgur.com/YgY2vQp,9t3DeIG#1

5C Slam: https://imgur.com/6GrHElq

 

Done

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Here's what i know about Marie's P Combo table 

 

5A: 5AA, 2A, 5B, 2B, 5C, 2C, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers, Jump ( On Hit Only ) 

5AA: 5AAA, 5B, 2B, 5C, 2C, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers

2A: 5A, 5B, 2B, 5C, 2C, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers

5B: 5BB, 5C, 2C, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers, Jump ( On Hit Only ) 

5BB: 2B, 5C, 2C, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers, Jump ( On Hit Only )

2B: 5B, 5C, 2C, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers, Jump

5C: 5B, 2B, 2C, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers, Jump ( On Hit Only ) 

2C: 5C, 5B, 2B, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers, Jump (On Hit Only ) 

J.A: J.A, J.B, J.2B, J.C, J.D

J.B: J.2B, J.C, J.D

J.2B: J.B, J.C, J.D

J.C: J.D 

 

If anyone wants to correct this go ahead 

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Done. Though it's worth noting that 5A is actually jump cancellable on block too. Just pointing it out because it's neat in pressure sometimes ^,^

 

EDIT: Also, I'll copy+paste her frame data from her character page to her frame data page later this week if it isn't done already. 

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Some Marie images if they are acceptable

[collapse]

Hot Lightning

http://www.fightersgeneration.com/nz2/game/p4u2-marie-screenshot3.jpg

Instant kill

0634b21a3c6ee8f65deb033aafb3680b.jpg

55e0ce861d4dc2fe0eb1f2b8bbe4ce4e.jpg

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140724162709/megamitensei/images/d/de/Marie_Instant_Kill.png

2D

https://jcphotog.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/persona-4-arena-ultimax-4.jpg

5C

http://i.imgur.com/nxP4WAR.jpg

Shutupihateyouyoustupidjerk

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140919190400/megamitensei/images/thumb/d/dc/P4AU_Marie_sprite.png/54px-P4AU_Marie_sprite.png

It's All Yours

170208bd42560f8b212c01541b5d9dd9.jpg

Dance Fallen Angels

56a1490a3b1a9929196a8b983fab591e.jpg

Her Name Is Hope "Pandora"

9d977400c2f85b5ffb31b51247091b86.jpg

Bright Arrows

c90fa31173c4fd7f1ac29cb620d983f2.jpg

2C

ff4b05dde0ec5c44a1bb3108ad8b6292.jpg

Stigma Of Condemnation

a4fb0f40c032f2272fed2ea04e43a1ac.jpg

Do you guys want me to get her using each weather with shutupihateyouyoustupidjerk or is that ok

EDIT: almost forgot this

Shell Of Denial

5cf3df7dc6e333a2bd97f0eff66a9fbc.jpg[/collapse]

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