BananaKun Report post Posted March 7, 2015 Dustloop's wiki is always one of the main tools I use when learning a new anime game. It's always been the best way for me to learn things from my character, how to fight other characters and overall it's a great reference to peek at when you're not sure about something. It's helped me a LOT through P4A, BBCP1.0 and BBCP1.1. Now that I'm trying to get up to speed in P4AU, I've run into multiple problems while using this game's wiki, and it just slows you down to a crawl whenever you run into missing, incomplete or downright incorrect data. For example:Narukami's SB Issen listed as having projectile invulnerability from frames 1-16, it's actually only on frames 4-5 (estimated)Adachi's SB Atom Smasher is listed as 3+3, but is actually 5+1DLC chars are missing large amounts of frame data, mostly active frame, recovery frames and attack level stuff. Some moves just aren't listedYes, you can just verify this data and just training mode everything, but that is also a massive waste of time if you need to do this for every single situation you run into. The first two examples are already fixed, but it's very possible that there's more like that. It's easy to verify that SB Issen doesn't actually have projectile invul from frames 1-16, but the fact this was listed wrong is troubling; worst case scenario someone could have just read that and believe the wiki so they might never try projectile based oki on Narukami if he has 75 meter. Adachi's is also easy to verify, but 3+3 implies that you could in fact try to roll through it and this is obviously not the case which is confusing and frustrating. I use active frames, recovery frames and attack level data all the time just to get a feel for a move's properties at a glance. It's not a substitute for playing against the character and dealing with that move in a real match but it lets me get an idea of how to deal with it. This way, when I sit in training mode I don't waste any time doing things I know won't work. As I find errors or figure out new frame data that isn't listed I'll add them, but I can't possibly find and/or fix everything on my own. Below is a list of problems I've found so far. I'm hoping the P4AU community could help in fixing the wiki, as this would help any competitive P4AU player. A lot of this information is not trivial to obtain, and I understand that. But at the very least if you notice that your character is on this list and the data is out there, letting people know here (or adding to/correcting the wiki) would be amazing. Feel free to post if you find any issues not listed here as well and I will add them to this post.Some important things to keep in mind:Every character has a wiki page AND a frame data page. When editing, please make sure to edit BOTH pages, so that the frame data and the wiki page agree.DO NOT PUT 2.0 CHANGES ON 1.1 PAGES. All 2.0 wiki pages will be clearly labeled with (P4AU2) at the end of the URL. Narukami's 1.1 frame data page contained 2.0 notes, such as Cross Slash being Fatal Recovery but not D and SB Swift Strike; this has been fixed, but not every value has been double-checked. (A Narukami main would be best for that.)If you aren't proficient at or simply don't like editing the wiki, that's fine, but if you know where frame data for console characters can be found, please post the links and/or data here and mixedmethods will add it. (Or possibly someone else will! Who knows?) For example, Margaret's 1.1 frame data is available in an Evernote, which is what I've been using while filling in her 1.1 frame data page. You can find her data here.If your character doesn't have a fleshed out wiki page and frame data page, anyone is free to start a thread in the relevant subforum to gather info and coordinate work. Even if you aren't the most knowledgeable player, collecting known values helps people like me (who may not know much about a certain character) when it comes to building frame data pages. This includes notes such as "+[value] when done as close as possible." (Ken, Narukami, and I believe Naoto as well (at least in P4U1) all have such threads -- they're helpful.)If you plan to or in fact do edit to fix a known issue, please leave a note here so it can be crossed off the to-do list.While anyone can edit the wiki, uploading images requires an account. If you would like to create an account, please send a direct message to AnneIFrank here on Dustloop. Twitter is not an effective way of contacting Anne.List of known issues: (if they are fixed, they will be crossed out)Aigis:Akihiko:Chie:Elizabeth:Junpei:236236D start-up is incorrect; it is actually 0f after super flash if the bat is swung immediately.2D start-up is incorrect. It is either 25 or 26 frame startup. Tested via punishing Akihiko's DP, which is -24; not punishable without IB, but with IB you get a punish.All homerun damage values for for 236236A/B/C/D are incorrect, as there are differences between using A/C and B/D to swing the bat. Requires testing to confirm exact values.Kanji:Ken: Recovery frames missingActive frames missingAwakening super frame data incomplete/missing. His DP super is listed as just "7" instead of something like 4+3 (made that up)IK frame data missingLabrys:Margaret:Active frames missingRecovery frames missingAttack levels missingMediarahan frame data missingMarie:Active frames missingAttack levels missingMitsuru:Values for various cancels (hop-cancel j.B and j., 5C dash cancel at 3/6/9/etc. hits) is missingTentarafoo frame advantage is missingNaoto:Rise:Attack levels missingAttack attributes missingStartup time for Tetrakarn/Makarakarn missingDamage values for Hysterical Slap and Risette Field missingShadow Labrys:SB Titanomachia landing recovery not listed Now has an estimateSB Titanomachia invul not listedSHO Minazuki:5B is missing an image5C has an incorrect damage value, should be 6002B is three hits, should have damage values of 300, 150, 150j. C is two hits, should have damage values of 400, 200j. 2C has an incorrect damage value, should be 700Survival Knife is missing an imageA Hougetsuzan: Soaring Fang has an incorrect damage value, should be 700All multi-hitting normals (5B, 2B, j. B, j. C) have a unique property - the first hit that connects with the opponent will do the first, higher damage value. So for example, if you use 2B from beyond the first hit's range but the second two hits connect, it'll do 450 damage (300+150), not 300 (150+150).P Combo System: You can only do a combined total of two 5B and 2B per string. 5B > 5C > 5B works; 5C > 5B > 2B works; 5B > 5C> 5B > 2B does not.Sho MINAZUKI:Teddie:j.2C data is missingStartup time for Teddie Warp is missingMystery Teddie SP startup and recovery is ambigious; in the latter's case, Teddie can perform any non-Persona action as soon as his Persona starts throwing items, and any Persona-based action after the last item is thrownNihil Hand incorrectly says that it can't be cancelled into anything; strictly speaking, it can be OMCed or OMBed ONLY on blockTomahawk's damage for the SB version is incorrectTurbo Recon Dynamo has awkward listing of its active frames [23(26)23(26)43(26)23(26)23(26)42(26)23(26)23]; makes sense because of how the item works, but looks messyMystery Food X still says it inflicts Poison; it only inflicts Silence and Fear in 1.1Startup time for Motorcycle Key after it's picked up is missingStartup times for Amagiya Buckets missingActive frames for Vanish Ball, Pinwheel and Amagiya Buckets missingCircus Bear is not a projectile.Adachi:SB atom smasher is listed 3+3, should be 5+1 Recovery frames missingActive frames missingAttack levels missingIK frame data missingYosuke:Narukami:SB Issen listed as 1-16 projectile invul, should be 4-5Yukari:2C proration is incorrect5A frame advantage is incorrectYukiko:SB Agidyne doesn't have the full damage values for the held versions (it says 50 instead of 50*N like the C version) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balguna Report post Posted March 7, 2015 Teddie: j.2C data is missing Startup time for Teddie Warp is missing Mystery Teddie SP startup and recovery is ambigious; in the latter's case, Teddie can perform any non-Persona action as soon as his Persona starts throwing items, and any Persona-based action after the last item is thrown Nihil Hand incorrectly says that it can't be cancelled into anything; strictly speaking, it can be OMCed or OMBed ONLY on block Tomahawk's damage for the SB version is incorrect Turbo Recon Dynamo has awkward listing of its active frames [23(26)23(26)43(26)23(26)23(26)42(26)23(26)23]; makes sense because of how the item works, but looks messy Mystery Food X still says it inflicts Poison; it only inflicts Silence and Fear in 1.1 Startup time for Motorcycle Key after it's picked up is missing Startup times for Amagiya Buckets missing Active frames for Vanish Ball, Pinwheel and Amagiya Buckets missing Rise Attack attributes missing Startup time for Tetrakarn/Makarakarn missing Damage values for Hysterical Slap and Risette Field missing Yukiko SB Agidyne doesn't have the full damage values for the held versions (it says 50 instead of 50*N like the C version) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BananaKun Report post Posted March 7, 2015 ... Thanks! OP has been updated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mixedmethods Report post Posted March 7, 2015 TeddieMystery Teddie SP has now been updated.Nihil Hand's description notes that it's OMC/OMB cancellable on block only, but I can edit the description to make that info more prominent.Circus Bear is not a projectile.MitsuruValues for various cancels (hop-cancel j.B and j., 5C dash cancel at 3/6/9/etc. hits) is missing (I have the info and will put it in).Tentrafoo frame advantage is missing (have info, will add it). I already added a note on the frame advantage for 5B and 5 dash-cancels. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kupo_asami Report post Posted March 8, 2015 mitsuru D bufula is -2F if you wanted to add that in as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mixedmethods Report post Posted March 8, 2015 mitsuru D bufula is -2F if you wanted to add that in as well. Added. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balguna Report post Posted March 8, 2015 Isn't Circus Bear considered a projectile in the 'Yukiko can be immune to it through Dia' sense? Haven't actually tested it in Ultimax. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TastyPancakez Report post Posted March 8, 2015 Isn't Circus Bear considered a projectile in the 'Yukiko can be immune to it through Dia' sense? Haven't actually tested it in Ultimax. iirc no since i remember trying that of course im not 100% sure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MegaGrandTale Report post Posted March 8, 2015 Isn't Circus Bear considered a projectile in the 'Yukiko can be immune to it through Dia' sense? Haven't actually tested it in Ultimax. Only the startup is immune to everything. Yukiko can't hold down healing and dodge it anymore, she get's hit now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UnsafeUnblockables Report post Posted March 8, 2015 If anyone wants to add this Marie has invul on her Shining arrows super it starts at F1 and ends at about F20 or F25 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BananaKun Report post Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) If anyone wants to add this Marie has invul on her Shining arrows super it starts at F1 and ends at about F20 or F25Please try to narrow it down as much as possible, that's important info on that move though.Edit:Margaret evernote with frame data, at a glance it doesn't seem to contain new information?https://www.evernote.com/shard/s492/sh/26aab915-2998-4b99-9cf0-795ef454f923/3061cd68095565930f0884dd3a68a0aaNow that I think about it, probably the easiest important thing to fill out for the DLC characters would be their gatling tables. If someone doesn't beat me to it by this weekend I'll give that a go. Edited March 9, 2015 by BananaKun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mixedmethods Report post Posted March 9, 2015 Teddie Mystery Food X now lists the correct ailments. SB Tomahawk has been edited. A few notes that may or may not belong in the OP: Every character has a wiki page AND a frame data page. When editing, please make sure to edit BOTH pages, so that the frame data and the wiki page agree.1.1 frame data pages were filled in by Omex, pre-1.1 (i.e., back during 1.0, before the console characters were released). This is why Narukami's SB Issen's start-up was listed incorrectly until recently (it was 5+0 in 1.0, which was changed in 1.1), AoA C enders specify that X number of hits are required during the All Out Rush to inflict Fatal on normal hit, Titanomachia SB had no values until BananaKen tested (and broke the game in the process), etc.DO NOT PUT 2.0 CHANGES ON 1.1 PAGES. Narukami's 1.1 frame data page contained 2.0 notes, such as Cross Slash being Fatal Recovery but not D and SB Swift Strike; I have already fixed those edits, but I haven't had a chance to double-check every value. (A Narukami main would be best for that.)For reference: this is Narukami's 2.0 wiki page, which links to his 2.0 frame data page. Note that Kevin has warning boxes on 2.0 pages stating that all data was copied from 1.1. A few characters have 2.0 frame data tables already, most don't. If you want to edit in 2.0 changes, that's fine, but please be certain to use the correct page. When in doubt, leave the warnings intact.If you aren't proficient at or simply don't like editing the wiki, that's fine, but if you know where frame data for console characters can be found, please post the links and/or data here and I will add it. (Or possibly someone else will! Who knows?) For example, Margaret's 1.1 frame data is available in an Evernote, which is what I've been using while filling in her 1.1 frame data page. You can find her data here.If your character doesn't have a fleshed out wiki page and frame data page, anyone is free to start a thread in the relevant subforum to gather info and coordinate work. Even if you aren't the most knowledgeable player, collecting known values helps people like me (who may not know much about a certain character) when it comes to building frame data pages. This includes notes such as "+[value] when done as close as possible." (Ken, Narukami, and I believe Naoto as well (at least in P4U1) all have such threads -- they're helpful.)If you plan to or in fact do edit to fix a known issue, please leave a note here so it can be crossed off the to-do list.Narukami 1.1 wiki and frame data pages need to be reviewed and edited as required to ensure data is accurate for 1.1. Finally, Circus Bear is absolutely not a projectile. I'm ashamed to admit this, but I assumed it was common knowledge and didn't fix the error because I figured a Kuma main would do so. In any event, it's been tested and Circus Bear is absolutely a strike. (Which has implications for anyone who attempts to escape a set-up with Guard Cancel Roll and/or Evasive Action, by the way...!) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Owl says O RLY Report post Posted March 10, 2015 SHO Minazuki: 5B is missing an image 5C has an incorrect damage value, should be 600 2B is three hits, should have damage values of 300, 150, 150 j. C is two hits, should have damage values of 400, 200 j. 2C has an incorrect damage value, should be 700 Survival Knife is missing an image A Hougetsuzan: Soaring Fang has an incorrect damage value, should be 700 All multi-hitting normals (5B, 2B, j. B, j. C) have a unique property - the first hit that connects with the opponent will do the first, higher damage value. So for example, if you use 2B from beyond the first hit's range but the second two hits connect, it'll do 450 damage (300+150), not 300 (150+150). P Combo System: You can only do a combined total of two 5B and 2B per string. 5B > 5C > 5B works; 5C > 5B > 2B works; 5B > 5C> 5B > 2B does not. All of this is easy to verify in training mode, but it bugs me that it's not in the wiki. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK Gaming Report post Posted March 10, 2015 DO NOT PUT 2.0 CHANGES ON 1.1 PAGES. Narukami's 1.1 frame data page contained 2.0 notes, such as Cross Slash being Fatal Recovery but not D and SB Swift Strike; I have already fixed those edits, but I haven't had a chance to double-check every value. (A Narukami main would be best for that.) Sorry, that was my mistake. I'll get to undoing those changes right away. Also worth noting that the image I uploaded for Mitsuru's Bufula 1.1 is wrong (as it's for 2.0) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BananaKun Report post Posted March 10, 2015 SHO Minazuki:I added this to the OP.A note on the images: there's a LOT of missing images for multiple characters. Documenting these would help a lot in fixing it as soon as possible (again, I'll add them as I run into them when using the wiki). The only problem is that a lot of the existing images seem to be sprite rips, and honestly if I were to do it I would just settle for a simple HD screenshot through a capture card. The priority should be to just fill out the missing entries through the easiest means; anything is better than a missing image. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heavymetalmixer Report post Posted March 10, 2015 I think we need more threads like this one for the other three games, don't you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Report post Posted March 10, 2015 I took a quick glance at Adachi's page and aside from what BananaKen already said I'd say: -Add images for 5C (Stab, Swing and Stomp) -Add image for Evil Smile. -2B is not a low. You can guard standing. << Edited already though I'll make sure to check again when I can and report back here. I've also been trying to replace said images, but you need an account on DL's wiki, don't you? If someone could add this images for me (If you see them fitting, of course) Smile : https://imgur.com/E0SPjc7 5C Stab : https://imgur.com/YgY2vQp,9t3DeIG 5C Swing : https://imgur.com/YgY2vQp,9t3DeIG#1 5C Slam: https://imgur.com/6GrHElq Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balguna Report post Posted March 10, 2015 If anyone wanted to go through and get attack images, here are all the moves that currently don't have any: Aigis: j.2C, Extreme Orgia Mode Adachi: 2C, j.2C, Megidola Akihiko: 5AAA, 2C, Sonic Punch Chie: 5AAA Elizabeth: 5BB, 5BBB, Debilitate Junpei: None! Kanji: 5AA, 5AAA, Primal Force Ken: 5D, Gigantic Impact, Mediarama Labrys: 5AA, 5AAA, Weaver's Art: Orb Magaret: None! Marie: All Persona normals, Hot Lightning, It's All Yours, "Dance, Fallen Angels", Memories of Grief, Her Name is "Hope (Pandora)", Stigma of Condemnation, Abysmal Evil Eye, all Supers, Instant Kill Mitsuru: 5AA, 5AAA Naoto: 5AA, 5AAA, Blight Rise: All Persona normals, Reflective Bit, ROCK YOU!, Tetrakarn/Makarakarn, Arrow Rain, Risette Field, Risette: Live on Stage, True Story Shadow Labrys: Public Execution SHO: 5B, Survival Knife Minazuki: 2D, Wings of Purgatory, Dream Fog Teddie: 5AA, 5AAA, j.2C, Motorcycle Key, Turbo Recon Dynamo, D-Type Prithvi, Mobile Model Varna, Mystery Teddie SP, Nihil Hand Yosuke: None! Yu: None! Yukari: None! Yukiko: 5AA, 5AAA, Flame Dance, Phoenix Flame Swirl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RurouniLoneWolf Report post Posted March 10, 2015 Rise Startup time for Tetrakarn/Makarakarn missing Moves like Tetrakarn/Makarakarn don't have startup. Only a total number of recovery frames needed to finish the action (In this case, setting up the shields). SHO Minazuki: 5B is missing an image 5C has an incorrect damage value, should be 600 2B is three hits, should have damage values of 300, 150, 150 j. C is two hits, should have damage values of 400, 200 j. 2C has an incorrect damage value, should be 700 Survival Knife is missing an image A Hougetsuzan: Soaring Fang has an incorrect damage value, should be 700 All multi-hitting normals (5B, 2B, j. B, j. C) have a unique property - the first hit that connects with the opponent will do the first, higher damage value. So for example, if you use 2B from beyond the first hit's range but the second two hits connect, it'll do 450 damage (300+150), not 300 (150+150). P Combo System: You can only do a combined total of two 5B and 2B per string. 5B > 5C > 5B works; 5C > 5B > 2B works; 5B > 5C> 5B > 2B does not. All of this is easy to verify in training mode, but it bugs me that it's not in the wiki. Everything scratched out I fixed. Though, the P-Combo stuff was already covered in his gatling table by someone else before I got there. I've also been trying to replace said images, but you need an account on DL's wiki, don't you? If someone could add this images for me (If you see them fitting, of course) Smile : https://imgur.com/E0SPjc7 5C Stab : https://imgur.com/YgY2vQp,9t3DeIG 5C Swing : https://imgur.com/YgY2vQp,9t3DeIG#1 5C Slam: https://imgur.com/6GrHElq Done Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UnsafeUnblockables Report post Posted March 11, 2015 Here's what i know about Marie's P Combo table 5A: 5AA, 2A, 5B, 2B, 5C, 2C, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers, Jump ( On Hit Only ) 5AA: 5AAA, 5B, 2B, 5C, 2C, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers 2A: 5A, 5B, 2B, 5C, 2C, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers 5B: 5BB, 5C, 2C, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers, Jump ( On Hit Only ) 5BB: 2B, 5C, 2C, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers, Jump ( On Hit Only ) 2B: 5B, 5C, 2C, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers, Jump 5C: 5B, 2B, 2C, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers, Jump ( On Hit Only ) 2C: 5C, 5B, 2B, 5D, 2D, AOA, Sweep, Specials, Supers, Jump (On Hit Only ) J.A: J.A, J.B, J.2B, J.C, J.D J.B: J.2B, J.C, J.D J.2B: J.B, J.C, J.D J.C: J.D If anyone wants to correct this go ahead Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RurouniLoneWolf Report post Posted March 11, 2015 Done. Though it's worth noting that 5A is actually jump cancellable on block too. Just pointing it out because it's neat in pressure sometimes ^,^ EDIT: Also, I'll copy+paste her frame data from her character page to her frame data page later this week if it isn't done already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UnsafeUnblockables Report post Posted March 11, 2015 Just so you know you didn't put that 5A is cancelable into 2A in the P Combo Table Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RurouniLoneWolf Report post Posted March 11, 2015 Fixed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mixedmethods Report post Posted March 13, 2015 Info on the damage properties for Sho's multi-hit moves has been added. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UnsafeUnblockables Report post Posted March 13, 2015 Some Marie images if they are acceptable [collapse] Hot Lightning http://www.fightersgeneration.com/nz2/game/p4u2-marie-screenshot3.jpg Instant kill http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140724162709/megamitensei/images/d/de/Marie_Instant_Kill.png 2D https://jcphotog.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/persona-4-arena-ultimax-4.jpg 5C http://i.imgur.com/nxP4WAR.jpg Shutupihateyouyoustupidjerk http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140919190400/megamitensei/images/thumb/d/dc/P4AU_Marie_sprite.png/54px-P4AU_Marie_sprite.png It's All Yours Dance Fallen Angels Her Name Is Hope "Pandora" Bright Arrows 2C Stigma Of Condemnation Do you guys want me to get her using each weather with shutupihateyouyoustupidjerk or is that ok EDIT: almost forgot this Shell Of Denial [/collapse] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites