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JackG

[CT] Hakumen vs Noel

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If she wants to spam, let her spam. Sit tight till you have 8 magatamas or something then go to town on her ass. Spammers will give you plenty of opportunities to open a combo with 6c into 7k+ damage.

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i know what you mean jack, but for me it seems to be the ice car spammers, I had a match earlier where the lag was so bad that I couldn't block ice car more than 10% of the time. I never even landed a combo on the guy... I'm still not good at blocking noel's strings if the person is mixing in low attacks. For some reason I can never seem to get combos off even when I break her strings with 5A, and 6A seems to trade aloth of the time, especially with her 2D.

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Is it just me or all the Drive spamming Noels also the people who lag the most? :(

Ugh I thought that was just me, I can have mountains of trouble fighting even the crappiest of people just because of lag.

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Played a friend who mains noel. Here are some things that I noticed: -If you IAD, you must do it at different heights, or you will either get owned by ja, 6a, or (gulp) air throw. Variation in height may mean you whiff your attack too, but at the very least you are now within striking range. keep them guessing so you don't get punished too hard for it (ja and 6a results in very minimal damage returned, but an air throw will totally bust your head open because noel can go into ground shoot combo). -At point blank range, you lose. But if you are even slightly farther than that, you win in the poke wars, so look for that distance when you engage noel. Even farther than that, you can win with 5c if you have a good grasp of the distance and timing between the two of you. Can play a very simple rock/paper/scissors game with your c moves. -6a is your friend, not only as aa, but just a generally good move. Noel can go under your shit with 3c, but 6a beats that too. -Liberal use of 3c in frame traps will work because noel has a hard time punishing it with anything major. -Using catch during her pressure string is not a good idea because she will mainly resort to 5a as her rush down poke. Use catch on her entry (both ground and air) to keep her honest. -Beware of her meter. She only use it for super or RC, so most likely she will almost always have a super handy. As Hakumen, neither ground or air dash is safe in that instance, so be judicious when you have noel in a bind, because they will be looking for a chance to break out the super. If you bait correctly, it's a free charged 6c shippu for a fuck load of damage (or any other variation of high damage combos). -Beware of her overhead. This just takes experience, it's a pretty decent overhead that's fairly safe. If they hit confirm into 3c incorrectly, you can annihilate them. -Learn to IB 2c. It's one of her good pressure moves, but you can turn it on them by IBing the move, also, at correct distances 6c outright beats it for a nice 6c > 6c > shippu combo. -Beware of what you are catching on her air entry. Generally, her ja will whiff if you do 6d because you move forward slightly (unless she is coming for super far, which shouldn't happen because it's a really unsafe entry for her). I can't really think of any other major point to cover. This matchup is in Hakumen's favor because Noel has a fairly hard time getting to hakumen, and even once she is in, her mixup game is limited, and her safe pressure will result in her unable to dish out any significant damage. If Noel wants to create damage, she needs to use her gimmick, but Hakumen can punish that shit real hard, so for noel it's a high risk game she really doesn't want to play.

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6A beats 3C? How does that work? I'll have to test that tomorrow... I wish I could actually play this against a competent noel player, I haven't fought a single one who didn't drive spam.

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i picked up noel on the side...iono this match-up i was originally gonna give to haku, but i played some decent haku's as noel and i can just buzz around his face all day. Late j.C's are safe as all hell and lead you to either a mix-up or free get-away. I play this match up like a hit and run. On the ground there's no way haku can catch=noel, and if he comes from the air her 6A is god-like and leads to mroe damage than haku's, i dunno the actual proration % but it seems i can get more damage off her anti airs than hakumens and its soooo easy to hit a drive in between hakumen's chain specials. Not to mention they're all really obvious motions so its not hard to confirm either if you buffer in the motion. All I can say is the health lead is incredibly important near the beginning. If noel can dictate the match and you find a patient one, its hard as fuck for hakumen to catch back up. If they drive spam...6A their ass all day, shit is fine on trade, and bawlin if you win the clash. ALWAYS be ready to block if you're in the air. A lot of times I don't bother waiting for a dash for noel's 6A as I can cover so much ground so fast I just jump up and pop him with j.A as an anti air and its just as fast if not faster, and as long as the tiny little air string ends in chain revolver its a noticeable amount of damage haku just took. you have to be able to block noel's 6B on reaction, if not then its fun times for noel. Other than that noel really can play her mix-up game safely, it just turns into low-risk low-reward until she nets a counter hit or has 50% bar to blow. No lie, when I get that 50% I'll do whatever kind of hi-lo mixup I want and RC on block, back to buzzin around his head. As haku-men...I haven't played any patient noel's, played the drive spammers and some better, but they all ended up going for her less-safe mixups...got blocked...and thats usually the match. Not a hard match for haku-men if you can block the hi-risk/reward noel's the 6A beating 3C is very nice and very useful for beating most online noels...but I have to say, the noel shouldn't be in a position for this to get counterhit, she should either be comboing into it or hitting it at max distance so as not to get punished HARD

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If you think a far 3c is coming, i'd just stick out 3c. The only way you get punished for it is if you guess completely wrong and they jump, then you are just screwed. Noel is suppose to hover on Hakumen. At correct ranges jc will clash all day against 6a. Which is why I usually mix in a little 2c and catch. Granted, a good noel will figure out a way to just do that to you anyways, but if you can punish her on 30-40% of her air entry (for various amounts of damage), that's good enough. Just IB her jc for meter. Again, don't make a habit of jumping in on noel (at the very least, vary your entry height). Good noels will air throw you into ground shoot for 5k damage, consistently (this is obviously GG experience at work here). Noel will also rush your ass down in the beginning (everyone will). She can belt out one of her riskier gimmicks because your punish will not do more than 3k, tops (hell, it may not even crack 2k). You need to just play this part to a stalemate. I disagree with Hakumen unable to catch back up though. It takes some patience, but it's really neither easy nor difficult compare to anything else. One final thing I think I may not have mentioned: Learn the exact distance of your 5c, because it will mean a world of difference in whether you lock down noel, or you whiff and she gets a free jump in.

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My advice is to use 6c to cut through her distortion drive and be ballin as fuck

except it has to be lol fullscreen or you have to predict it

otherwise your eating a counter hit

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Based on a combination of experience and frame data I'm having a very hard time understanding how you guys are using 6A to knock Noel out of anything on the ground or blocking her mixups on reaction. Every time I'm blocking low I get hit by 2D or 6B and everything else of hers looks and sounds the same. Not to mention 3C is way too fast to block on reaction after she jumps in with anything and even hits behind her if I roll past. On the rare occasions I almost get a hit in she just does one of her supers and either the ground one eats my attacks with super armor or the air one pushes me all the way across the screen and she just starts over. on the topic of 6A every time I try it I just get hit out of the start up since every move in her drive combo is either Head and Body or Feet. Since all her shit looks Identical I can't 6B her drive sweep kick either. Aside from "get faster reaction times" are there any real things I can do to get out of her pressure? The second I eat anything anywhere she can go into any combo and there has to be a better option than blocking until they make a mistake because chances are I'll make one first. It probably doesn't help that the Noels I'm playing against are all really good, so I'm leaning towards just chalking it up to a combination of slow reflex times and tiers.

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Huh? hitting her out of anything on the ground with 6a? I can assure you that trying to 6a counter her on the ground is a terribad idea. She is going to spam you a face full of 5a. Don't give her a free counter. You can use 6a as frame trap on your offensive, but on the defensive, I don't believe it is useful for anything on the ground. As for overheads, nothing to do other than either guessing it, or reacting to it. Her 3c is really slow. I mean, it can be reacted to, and it's easily punishable. Noel has ways to play safe but crappy offense just like hakumen, or she can play her high risk/high reward game, which Hakumen gladly welcomes. You just need to play from neutral effectively and not take too many chances. The only thing I hate about her is her 5a, you can't do shit even if you IB it. Otherwise, it's simply reading your opponent. And there is nothing better than blocking. Do not get the idea that blocking is bad, blocking is goooooooood. Patience is goooooooooooood. Oh, and stay on the ground, please. Good noels will blow you to bits if you approach from the air too often (6a, ja, air throw all crushes whatever you can do from the air). The trade-off is severely in her favor. I only air-dash entry about 1-2 times per round. Air throw will go straight into ground shoot combo for a fuck loads of dmgs. Not cool.

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I keep eating delayed sweeps and if its blocked low she greed severs on reaction, and while I can D that, the timing is bad or always misses, same for her sweep. Her air moves seem to come out faster than any of Hakus so I usually bait a jD or 2C it, but I usually have to steer clear of her getting close.

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I keep eating delayed sweeps and if its blocked low she greed severs on reaction, and while I can D that, the timing is bad or always misses, same for her sweep.

Her air moves seem to come out faster than any of Hakus so I usually bait a jD or 2C it, but I usually have to steer clear of her getting close.

Really? I find that doing j2c is pretty effective on her except in cases where she does an attack called "revolver blast" or something of that nature then either i try a counter or j214b (renka) to get her.

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I'm really confused as to how to get out of ground combos. The one I see most is I think 5A>some C>2C>3C, and if I block all of it I get pushed far enough away that I can't hit her with anything other than a C move which never seems to work. I've tried to block the first few and 6B the 2 or 3 C but I always seem to just get hit instead. I have equal trouble in the drive chains. According to the frame data I should be able to block and 5A after pretty much every attack since the safest one is supposed to be -15, but this definitely doesn't work. Plus if they finish with bloom trigger or some of the other normal attacks I'm too far away again and the only thing that can hit is a 6C which she often blocks. Are those numbers based on if it's the last attack in the chain? Are there places I can sneak in a D with or without IBs? I've pretty much given up on fighting her in the air at all so it seems the only option I have left is to predict and preempt all her attempts to close the distance which is pretty hard to do. I'm not a very good Hakumen player in general, but every level of Noels have been giving me as much trouble as Nu's.

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you can 5D her greed sever on reaction if you spend a few minutes in training mode getting used to the timing. and i think i said this before, but if you guard her greed sever and she follows up with flashkick, you can 5D that on reaction too. 5A can work to hit her out of greed sever, although it's somewhat hard to pull off consistently seeing as you have to be able to hit her as she's falling (otherwise it'll whiff and you get counter hit). and if you have enough time to be doing that, you had enough time to do a 5D instead.

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Drive spam is cured by catching. All her drives are really telegraphed so you should be able to react to any of them. if you IB 1-2 hits of her strings you should be in range to 3c counter hit into 6b > gurren > 6c. Not much damage, but minimal loss of meter and you can now start working her towards the other side of the stage. Now, if you are playing online, you will have to psychic some stuff, but again, for actual competitive play, Noel isn't going to use her drive gimmicks too much because they are going to 1. Feed hakumen a crap load of meter 2. Give him free damage off catches The safe way to play this match up for the noel player is to simply work everything off 5a because you can't do shit to her when she spams 5a. And the occasional risk taking.

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Funny this thread should be bumped because I was about to post here.

I really can't stand this bitches 5a spam and her godlike 6a shoryuken wannabe....

Yeah, IAD 5a is a pain, but once you get used to it, you can AA 6a CH into air combo, or D counter it. I prefer doing the 6a AA since D might not come out in time. Or, better yet, Yukikaze that stuff if you're pissed. Really rattles e'm. If she spams ground 5a... can't do much. You have to wait until she starts her string, then it's counter heaven. I haven't tried it, but maybe IB'ing a few hits, then counter could work.

For her 6a, gotta high block barrier it. Retaliate with 3c -> big combo punish or something.

Really, counter is gdlk vs. Noel spammers. The best ones are those who just don't learn after I punish their IAD for the nth time since it's a free win. Good Noels will mix you up all day and easily get in 4-5 combos, but spammers should be free wins.

Now, for myself, I have a question. Can you 2D her low hits? Every time 2D comes out, it seems the Noel has priority, and nothing happens. I have no problem with 5/6D, it's just 2D which appears completely ineffective.

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You can, the problem is her lows are either very quick, making them hard to react to, or have a delayed hit making you whiff you counter if you react too quickly. Plus, I think her 2A gives her +3F on block or something ridiculous.

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Funny this thread should be bumped because I was about to post here.

Yeah, IAD 5a is a pain, but once you get used to it, you can AA 6a CH into air combo, or D counter it. I prefer doing the 6a AA since D might not come out in time. Or, better yet, Yukikaze that stuff if you're pissed. Really rattles e'm. If she spams ground 5a... can't do much. You have to wait until she starts her string, then it's counter heaven. I haven't tried it, but maybe IB'ing a few hits, then counter could work.

For her 6a, gotta high block barrier it. Retaliate with 3c -> big combo punish or something.

Really, counter is gdlk vs. Noel spammers. The best ones are those who just don't learn after I punish their IAD for the nth time since it's a free win. Good Noels will mix you up all day and easily get in 4-5 combos, but spammers should be free wins.

Now, for myself, I have a question. Can you 2D her low hits? Every time 2D comes out, it seems the Noel has priority, and nothing happens. I have no problem with 5/6D, it's just 2D which appears completely ineffective.

2d like 6d come out in 1/4 of the frame time, meaning that 5d has a 4 frame start up but a 12 frame active frame point, making ti VERY useful bus useless when I.B'ing. Like I said before 2d and 6d have a 1 frame startup meaning that they come out immediately. However they only have a 7 frames of activity, that being said you must use those on reaction to attacks or instant blocking.

It's a pretty good deal with you think about it, one fourth of the start up frames to use them for only have the half the activity frames for 5d. So 2d and 6d must be used as soon as the attack is about to land test it out in training mode to see what i mean.

When the round starts with a noel I usually press 5d to he how much they spam, or a 2c if i think they might try to trip me.

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just cuz it's a gatling doesn't necessarily mean it combos. (there're lots of non-comboable gatlings in GG, for example.)

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