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[CPEX] Izayoi General / Q&A - "DO IT FOR HER"

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Different people get different things out of stuff. Just because Izayoi is stronger doesn't mean you must be satisfied at the result, especially if it changes an aspect of the character and game you enjoyed.

Moreover it's especially not unreasonable to do so. If something you really enjoyed about a character was removed, who wouldn't be upset? That being said my favorite thing about Izayoi is how fucking flashy she looks and that's the same so. Hopefully I get more time to work on her, though it's tough with gg1.1 finally out.

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It's not like she's 100% better in all regards, she has better fundamental tools but lost a lot of random gimmicks that may or may not have been useful in any given matchup.

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Jesus Christ, what the fuck is wrong with you guys? :psyduck: :psyduck: :psyduck:

 

 

i think people missed the point. she's more complex this time around at a skin deep level, but the dynamic parts of her play are pretty much removed. She's easier in a meta way, but not necessarily easier in terms of character depth. There is more knowledge to utilize, less impact of that knowledge, yeah?

 

essentially, there are like a TON more character specific combos. In terms of optimization, your resource gain is more inconsistent. Corner carry and sideswap routes are similarly inconsistent, but exist. You need to know like, metaphorically, 100 combos for a situation where previously you'd need to know half of that. This comes up in neutral too, where there are more tools, and as such more conclusions to come to as to how to best use those tools, but in actuality the ways you use the tools are very one dimensional.

 

The emphasis on the player interaction was not "the choice of what you want to do is clear, but do you know that combo/this situation well enough?" and rather "what do you want to do?" where the decision making was definitely a much deeper, more involved process and produced tangible results.

 

you cannot tell me that isnt a regression in design. Nobody wants to be tested by simply regurgitating 50 thousand things vs dynamic implementation. To be fair, if it was like that without the removal of that type of play, things would be perfectly fine. But you shouldnt ever sacrifice that for "this kind" of complexity.

 

do you think, i, as a competitive player am not ok with this version of the character? shes really strong, i'd prefer this version in terms of performance. if you made me pick which one to stick with, i'd pick EX in a heartbeat. do i care about being special? come the fuck onnnn. but i am voicing a very valid complaint about how enjoyment of the character is diminished. as my friend concisely put it "im not going to have as much fun fucking you up, and here's why". dont misconstrue this as me being petty or immature.

 

on topic, i have a ton of tech so far but i really need the time to post it up. ill be done with finals after this week, so next weekend should be ballerrrr. Can finally get around to the combo thread and stuff, sorry about the wait, but i've seriously got some good shit on the way!

 

tbh, i think she is 100% better in all regards, lmao.

Edited by not_lunaris

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The devotion to the character and spreading of tech is definitely appreciated...

 

As someone who's been interested in Izayoi for a while (I haven't really played this kind of character too much before) where would be the best place to start? Just getting down a fundamental understanding of her capabilities and the function of both modes and her movement/neutral? Any advice would be appreciated but I guess I should just start off by watching more footage to get a better grasp of what her tools do.

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i think people missed the point. she's more complex this time around at a skin deep level, but the dynamic parts of her play are pretty much removed. She's easier in a meta way, but not necessarily easier in terms of character depth. There is more knowledge to utilize, less impact of that knowledge, yeah?

essentially, there are like a TON more character specific combos. In terms of optimization, your resource gain is more inconsistent. Corner carry and sideswap routes are similarly inconsistent, but exist. You need to know like, metaphorically, 100 combos for a situation where previously you'd need to know half of that. This comes up in neutral too, where there are more tools, and as such more conclusions to come to as to how to best use those tools, but in actuality the ways you use the tools are very one dimensional.

The emphasis on the player interaction was not "the choice of what you want to do is clear, but do you know that combo/this situation well enough?" and rather "what do you want to do?" where the decision making was definitely a much deeper, more involved process and produced tangible results.

you cannot tell me that isnt a regression in design. Nobody wants to be tested by simply regurgitating 50 thousand things vs dynamic implementation. To be fair, if it was like that without the removal of that type of play, things would be perfectly fine. But you shouldnt ever sacrifice that for "this kind" of complexity.

do you think, i, as a competitive player am not ok with this version of the character? shes really strong, i'd prefer this version in terms of performance. if you made me pick which one to stick with, i'd pick EX in a heartbeat. do i care about being special? come the fuck onnnn. but i am voicing a very valid complaint about how enjoyment of the character is diminished. as my friend concisely put it "im not going to have as much fun fucking you up, and here's why". dont misconstrue this as me being petty or immature.

on topic, i have a ton of tech so far but i really need the time to post it up. ill be done with finals after this week, so next weekend should be ballerrrr. Can finally get around to the combo thread and stuff, sorry about the wait, but i've seriously got some good shit on the way!

tbh, i think she is 100% better in all regards, lmao.

For some reason I am incredibly tired today so this might make even less sense than my usual posts do, but IIRC Izayoi lost a bunch of her gimmickier mixup tools like TK Noir (14f overhead in NM), NM 3C jump cancel, 0f dash 5C, and Phorizer/Trans-Am are both nerfed in terms of mixup ability (slower Trans-Am hits, no teleport on whiff/block for Phorizer). Stuff like that. She seems to get along just fine without most of this stuff for the most part in 2.0 but nerfs to specific things are still nerfs even if they're compensated by buffs to other things.

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Does anyone know exactly how fast 2B and teleports are now? I'm guessing 12f for 2B according to wiki is just a copy-paste from 1.1 since it definitely feels a lot faster than that now. Combos off Astraea teleport when 5B doesn't etc.

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Yeah I dunno, it certainly feels a lot faster than before though.

From quick testing, I'm getting Izayoi's 2B to punish Ragna's 6B on IB, but not her 5B. Same result from regularly blocking Noel's d.6B in overdrive.

That puts her 2B at 9 frames and her 5B at 10 frames, unless the frame data on both of the other moves I tested changed. And either way, 2B is definitely faster than 5B.

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From quick testing, I'm getting Izayoi's 2B to punish Ragna's 6B on IB, but not her 5B. Same result from regularly blocking Noel's d.6B in overdrive.

That puts her 2B at 9 frames and her 5B at 10 frames, unless the frame data on both of the other moves I tested changed. And either way, 2B is definitely faster than 5B.

 

Yeah, I just tested it myself.  2B also links on standing FC 2C whereas 5B doesn't, so it's faster than 5B,  It's slower than 2A (doesn't link off non-FC crouching whereas 2A does) so 9f sounds correct.

 

Someone on IRC also did this so it mostly checks out.

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the adjustments to 2B, 236B, and 236C are all only to startup. recovery is exactly the same. new startups are 9f, 14f, and 11f respectively. i dont have solid numbers for A, B and C teleports yet, but D is definitely the same. I'm thinking that saber may have gotten a hitstun increase on CH, which is why you get all these situations where you have forever to combo.

 

In any case, it seems like B teleport's cancel window is 4f behind A teleport, and that the amount of time 236B knocks down is higher which is why all these normal mode routes work.

 

just a few more days until school is over orz

 

to clarify, there are cancel windows on her teleports that arent indicated in her frame data. I don't think i ever put it into hard data, but i had figures for them for myself in 1.1. Her teleport recovery has like, specific frames at which it can be canceled into attacks as part of the recovery (technically you can attack or even DP before you can even guard off A/B/C teleports)

Edited by not_lunaris

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Hello! New izayoi player here, and I have 2 questions:

 

I can't get justice pholizer at the end of the combos, is there an specific timing to do it?

 

how do you do valkyrie astrea without doing crusade seraphim? like in the first variant of j.C roll punishes

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Hello! New izayoi player here, and I have 2 questions:

I can't get justice pholizer at the end of the combos, is there an specific timing to do it?

how do you do valkyrie astrea without doing crusade seraphim? like in the first variant of j.C roll punishes

You have to Strike Fall from high enough to get the frame advantage you need to link Phorizer cancel. IIRC it always works off whatever > j.BC dj.BC, if that doesn't combo due to proration you can do 5B 5C sj.BC dj.C instead if the combo allows for it. So if you're just trying to do 5C normal jump j.BC dj.C Noir > Strike Fall > Phorizer, that doesn't work.

Instant Astraea is just doing 6D during 236C startup. You can just do 236C+D actually I think although a plink is probably safer so you don't accidentally do 236D.

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You have to Strike Fall from high enough to get the frame advantage you need to link Phorizer cancel. IIRC it always works off whatever > j.BC dj.BC, if that doesn't combo due to proration you can do 5B 5C sj.BC dj.C instead if the combo allows for it. So if you're just trying to do 5C normal jump j.BC dj.C Noir > Strike Fall > Phorizer, that doesn't work.

Instant Astraea is just doing 6D during 236C startup. You can just do 236C+D actually I think although a plink is probably safer so you don't accidentally do 236D.

 

Ok bro, thanks!

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you can cancel into astraea from holding any 236B/C or 623B, from charge stance. You can also do the same cancel into D teleport instead if you want.

 

edit:correcting lies

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you can cancel into astraea from holding any 236B/C or 623B, from charge stance. You can also do the same cancel into D teleport instead if you want.

 

edit:correcting lies

 

teleport cancel is only on hit, which allows for certain option selects. Astraea can be canceled into after the third frame of 236C/236B i believe. You can cancel into astraea on whiff/hit/block, which makes it really useful in that way.

 

236C is third frame, not sure about 236B but i dont know why it would be any different.

 

You have to Strike Fall from high enough to get the frame advantage you need to link Phorizer cancel. IIRC it always works off whatever > j.BC dj.BC, if that doesn't combo due to proration you can do 5B 5C sj.BC dj.C instead if the combo allows for it. So if you're just trying to do 5C normal jump j.BC dj.C Noir > Strike Fall > Phorizer, that doesn't work.

Instant Astraea is just doing 6D during 236C startup. You can just do 236C+D actually I think although a plink is probably safer so you don't accidentally do 236D.

 

5C jB jC djC does work for phorizer, but in this version height isnt the only factor for actually getting the super. Izayoi's positioning in relation to the opponent also matters, so you get certain heights where you wont get the phorizer link if your opponent is too high. so saying height by itself is a little misleading.

Edited by not_lunaris

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I wondering what strings you guys using for OD midscreen , GA throw mid-screen and corner, Fatal using Valkyrie and fatal NM 2C i  wing it most of time and most of the time i work it out but haven not got anything solid yet.

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In GA after a 236B midscreen I'll sometimes do 5C > 2C[1] jump cancel overdrive 236236C. Requires you to be relatively close to the corner (or using a second phorizer) to get a full combo, though. Might be possible to just do a 5C after the overdrive if you're close enough, but I'm somehow bad at that.

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yup, you can do a 5C after that, but it's character specific. 5A shouldnt be, though.

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Reacting with Aegis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3OzkXTkjj0

 

You should try to get a hang of it, its...pretty nice to be able to bait bursts safely lol.

 

 

 

IZAYOI OD STOCK GAIN INFORMATION

 

(i gathered this for the wiki, to get into a nice and tidy chart but ill dump it here first)

 

So izayoi's OD can get extended by hitstop, but whether this yields an extra stock or not is dependent on the duration of the OD you use. LUCKILY, I HAVE TESTED EVERY VARIANT OF OD AT EVERY LIFE INTERVAL. COOL

 

~ signifies that the interval is able to gain a stock through hitstop extension.

 

Sorted by OD Variant, Life %'s, and then Stock Gain.

 

Neutral OD Data:

100%-82%: 3 stock

81-73: 4

72- 63: 6 (!!!)

62-54: 7

53-45: 9(!)

44-35: 10

34-24: 12

23-12: 13~14

11-1: 15

 

ODC Data:

100%-82%: 1stock

81-73: 2

72- 63: 2~3

62-54: 3

53-45: 4

44-35: 5

34-24: 5~6

23-12: 6~7

11-1: 7

 

ODGC Data:

100%-82%: 1stock

81-73: 2 4

72-63: 3

62-54: 4

53-45: 4~5

44-35: 5

34-24: 6

23-12: 7

11-1: 7~8

 

ODGC actually gives you more stocks than ODC. Thats crazzzzzzzy

 

today is the day i show the forums love. gonna hit up the wiki and combo thread ︵‿︵‿︵‿︵‿︵‿︵‿︵‿︵‿︵‿ヽ(゜□゜ )ノ︵‿︵‿︵‿︵‿︵‿

Edited by not_lunaris

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What ways are there to get 236C after 6A other than adding 4 after 6A to avoid getting a DP? It's a small annoyance, but I want to see if there's another method I'm missing that I would be more comfortable or less annoyed with.

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I buffer 6A way in advance so I can just time a 236 when 6A actually hits.

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what did they do to skyfall > phorizer? Sometimes it will link, sometimes it will whiff, on the same combo, with the same timing.

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what did they do to skyfall > phorizer? Sometimes it will link, sometimes it will whiff, on the same combo, with the same timing.

IIRC, I remember reading a tweet by SKD saying that it's height specific? Perhaps he can elaborate more. In any case, I've been more successful when it's off of something like ... 6C > (623C) > j.B > j.C > dj.C > Noir > Strike Fall > Phorizer.

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what did they do to skyfall > phorizer? Sometimes it will link, sometimes it will whiff, on the same combo, with the same timing.

What combo are you referring to? You may be hitting Strike Fall a bit too late so the opponent isn't at max height after being hit.

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