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Eshi

[CPEX] Amane Nishiki Gameplay Discussion

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This thread will be used for any discussion of Amane himself. Keep it on topic (preferably gameplay but story is also relevant to some extent as long as it doesn't stray into general story/wishlist/etc.) so it doesn't become chaos in here.
 

General Information
 
Normals
 
A Moves
  • 5A- High slap/punch attack, whiffs on crouching
  • 6A- Anti air move with upper body invincibility. Jump cancelable
  • 2A- Crouching jab (not a low), surprisingly low reach
  • j.A- Jumping jab, can chain in itself in whiff and is the only overhead Amane has. Good for air to air to convert into a combo or bring the opponent in blockstun with you as you land and start pressure.
 
B Moves
  • 5B- Good move that covers a lot of area in front of Amane.  Hits 3 times.
  • 6B- Sends Amane diagonally upwards and back after using this move. Causes Fatal on CH. Lower body invincible on frame five. Throw invincible on frame 1 to 4. Allows air dash options afterwards, even on whiff. In Extend, it also gatlings into Amane's air normals!
  • 2B- Hits low and a good starter
  • j.B- Scarf whip attack. Hits three times and has good range to hit down below. Not an overhead. Pretty long startup.
  • j.2B- Downwards spike. Amane interrupts his current air movement and goes straight down. He bounces back on hit or block unless done low enough to the ground. If used that way, lots of frame advantage. Not an overhead. Will not remain active until you land.
 
C Moves
  • Long range multi-hit pokes with slow startup. Hit 2 times from about 5 character lengths away (the knot at the end of the scarf). Second hit pulls opponents in. Will whiff at close range since there's no hitbox in between the knot and Amane. No hurtbox as well.
  • 5C- Scarf extends forward at about head level. Whiffs on crouching
  • 2C- Long range attack along the ground. First hit is low. Forces stand on hit.
  • 6C- Diagonally upwards reach. Causes fatal on CH. Pretty unreliable as an anti-air due to it's slow startup. Very useful in combos.
  • 3C- Sweep attack that slightly moves Amane forward. Only C attack that only hits once and isn't a long range attack like the rest. It's a regular normal.
  • j.C- Diagonally downwards striking scarf attack. Has good utility at neutral. Not an overhead.
  • j.6C- Scarf extends horizontally from Amane in the air. Mostly used for combos.
  • j.2C- Downward/down-forward striking attack. Not an overhead.
 
Drive: Spiral
  • 3 levels of drill gauge. Gauge increases upon using D attacks and decreases over time. Drill attacks last longer and do more damage with higher level. A drill stays active for a maximum of 16 frames. Drill meter builds on whiffed D attacks solely when you have level 3.
  • Drill can overheat if charged for too long. When overheated, D moves and D specials cannot be used for around 2-3 seconds. After the overheat, you will return to level 1.
  • Each attack will deal more hits if button is held down, with each hit contributing to the drill gauge. Can stop holding moves at any time by releasing the button.
  • Level 3 D moves do a very high amount of chip damage on block. They also have increased frame advantage
  • On hit, they'll do significantly more damage due to increase of both damage and proration.
  • On drill level 3, your gauge will actually raise faster making it easier to maintain it as well as overheating it.
  • As of Extend, all drills can be special canceled on block! This is for useful for for pressure when combined with Zettou and Hariken.
  • Overdrive: Drill gauge is fixed at level 3 and rapidly builds up to it if lower. Note that you can still overheat if you push the drill too much, but that should be pretty hard since it'll try to maintain your drill at level 3 the whole time.
Drive Moves
  • 5D- Lunges forward with drill arm. Long startup and existing hurtbox makes it risky to use it as a poke.
  • 2D- Thrusts drill upward. Can be used as anti-air, but the head invulnerability comes pretty late making it less reliable. Works great during combo.
  • 6D- Drill dropped from above about 3-4 characters away. Isn't an overhead. Easiest way to charge drill meter. Can be held indefinitely until overheat on block or hit, goes immediately into recovery on whiff now.
  • j.D- Downwards drill leg attack. Least damaging drill in Amane's drive attacks. Very strong pressure tool when combined with Zettou special cancel on block.
  • j.6D- Horizontal drill arm attack. Similar to 5D. Most damaging drive normal and should solely be used as a combo tool
 
Specials:
  • Hariken (236D)-
    Drill charge stance. Pressing A/B/C will summon a drill a set distance away from Amane (A being closest and C being farthest). Pressing D cancels the stance. Summoning a drill now has a hit of its own, allowing it to combo the opponent in air juggles. Summoned drills will last longer on higher drill levels. Drills can be hit to be nullified as they have a hurtbox. Any summoned drill will maintain the drill level from going down during active frames. Maximum active frames of 15 despite active time.
  • Gekiren (623C)-
    Summons cloth fist from underground. On hit it grabs the opponent and slams them to the ground. It's an unblockable strike that only hits airborne opponent. Will come out at a fixed distance from Amane unless used in the corner. Will be on screen next to the corner if the fixed distance would be off screen.
  • Raibu (236C)-
    A charging attack. Multi-hitting and with great knockback. Causes wallstick on corner hit. Unsafe on block so should be used in combos or to end them.
  • Gosei (j236C)-
    Air charging attack, like Raibu. Amane first goes diagonally downward then continues with one more hit on the ground. On last hit, Amane will autocorrect to face the opponent of ot applies. Unsafe on block at -7, but with 50 meter, you can make it safe or convert into a combo by using a Rapid Cancel into 2C.
  • Zettou (214A/B and 236A/B)-
    Command IAD-like hop move. The hop changes depending on the button used, A version is a smaller hop while B goes slightly higher and further. 236X hops forward while 214X hops backward. Can followup with normals after a little cooldown. You cannot cancel into anything besides movement and blocking options before a certain time. On ground Zettou, this is about 14-16 frames depending on the version. On air Zettou, this is 7 frames. Excellent pressure tool and useful in combos.
  • Seijuu (236236D)-
    Charging super. Damage is inflicted after the dash is complete on hit and is based on drill level. Has invuln and Amane will be a medium distance behind the opponent after the move has completed. Can followup into a combo with level 2 or 3 drill meter. Level 2 followup is 3C, level 3 is 6C. This super will cause overheat on hit of your drill level unless it's rapid canceled correctly.
  • Goukai (632146D)-
    Super that summons many drills that travel across the screen. No invuln frames. Pushes the opponent to the edge of the screen. Causes drill overheat. This super does really good damage even on level 1 and can be used to make combos burstsafe. You can increase damage by using Rapid cancel and by using Zettou into forward airdashes. That way the opponent eats more drills.
 
Misc:
  • Ground throw causes wall stick in the corner. Can be special canceled. Very versatile combo routes offered afterwards with good damage.
  • Amane uses his scarf as a bow and himself as an arrow for his air throw. Followup will vary depending on the height at which you throw. Basic one should be 6A jump canceled into air combo.
  • Taunt- Amane takes out a fan and fans himself.
  • Counter Assault uses 5B animation.
 

 

 

 

Wiki links (contribute if you can)

 

 

 

 

 

Amane Color Palettes

 

 

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Since this thread is entirely new & the board's been dead for a bit, I'll post some of the things I've played around with and my thoughts on Amane so far.

 

+ j236C always knocks down on hit no matter how high the combo has been worked up. This means all air combos can be optimized for damage without allowing the opponent to air tech out of knockdown. The knockdown itself is very different with the opponent landing much closer to you. Not sure how I feel about this yet; opponents keep forward rolling out of my zettou oki so far.

+ Hariken drill starters do fucktons of damage. The pop-up on level 1 drills is very brief so it's quite hard to hit confirm, but if you do then you will very easily hit 4k damage meterless. It's at least +5 on block.

+ Drill special cancels on block is great. 5D is extremely negative on block now so you absolutely have to special cancel it, but it's definitely a net improvement.

 

- RIP 6D setups. It's easier to combo into 6D if you have 50 meter, just combo any air juggle into Hariken B RC 6D. Otherwise you should almost never go for a setup because they're all universally escapable with back dash or delay tech. Overall, Amane gets level 3 drill way less frequently.

- Damage off of short duration starters got way lower: certain normals have added proration, jA > jB no longer combos, 2A > 2B > 3C > 236C in the corner is all you can get because 5A doesn't combo into 6A anymore. Long duration starters are more or less the same at least.

- DP characters are so much harder than before. He greatly relies on consistently pressuring the opponent with drill special cancels to build up meter and all of it has gaps. You have to constantly make 50/50 guesses with very poor reward.

- 6B starter got destroyed. The BnB now is to gatling into jC to hit confirm it. On normal hit it's literally impossible to follow up at mid-close range because jC whiffs. On fatal counter you can do jC > 236A > jB > j2C > j2B to initiate a good damage air juggle, but getting j2B to hit as low as possible so you don't need meter to follow up is extremely inconsistent. It has new uses in corner combos, but as a defensive tool it got nerfed way too hard for no reason.

- Corner gekiren air tech traps don't work anymore. I'm not sure why, but don't try them.

 

If you want to blow up players who don't know the match-up, off of any air juggle, combo into 6C [1] > B Hariken > 6D. If you time it correctly, they have to block it on emergency tech and it blue beat combos if they don't. Backdash universally escapes but if they don't know that then you can get level 3 drill every match for free.

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Re: Gosei knockdown - does this mean that it gets the knockdown even with SMP? I don't recall having problems with non-SMP Gosei enders in 1.1.

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Re: Gosei knockdown - does this mean that it gets the knockdown even with SMP? I don't recall having problems with non-SMP Gosei enders in 1.1.

It depends on how high the combo has worked up. If you end earlier then you actually can get hard knockdown. Otherwise, they'll air tech after the last hit or in the middle of its hits on the way down.

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Since this thread is entirely new & the board's been dead for a bit, I'll post some of the things I've played around with and my thoughts on Amane so far.

 

+ j236C always knocks down on hit no matter how high the combo has been worked up. This means all air combos can be optimized for damage without allowing the opponent to air tech out of knockdown. The knockdown itself is very different with the opponent landing much closer to you. Not sure how I feel about this yet; opponents keep forward rolling out of my zettou oki so far.

+ Hariken drill starters do fucktons of damage. The pop-up on level 1 drills is very brief so it's quite hard to hit confirm, but if you do then you will very easily hit 4k damage meterless. It's at least +5 on block.

+ Drill special cancels on block is great. 5D is extremely negative on block now so you absolutely have to special cancel it, but it's definitely a net improvement.

 

- RIP 6D setups. It's easier to combo into 6D if you have 50 meter, just combo any air juggle into Hariken B RC 6D. Otherwise you should almost never go for a setup because they're all universally escapable with back dash or delay tech. Overall, Amane gets level 3 drill way less frequently.

- Damage off of short duration starters got way lower: certain normals have added proration, jA > jB no longer combos, 2A > 2B > 3C > 236C in the corner is all you can get because 5A doesn't combo into 6A anymore. Long duration starters are more or less the same at least.

- DP characters are so much harder than before. He greatly relies on consistently pressuring the opponent with drill special cancels to build up meter and all of it has gaps. You have to constantly make 50/50 guesses with very poor reward.

- 6B starter got destroyed. The BnB now is to gatling into jC to hit confirm it. On normal hit it's literally impossible to follow up at mid-close range because jC whiffs. On fatal counter you can do jC > 236A > jB > j2C > j2B to initiate a good damage air juggle, but getting j2B to hit as low as possible so you don't need meter to follow up is extremely inconsistent. It has new uses in corner combos, but as a defensive tool it got nerfed way too hard for no reason.

- Corner gekiren air tech traps don't work anymore. I'm not sure why, but don't try them.

 

If you want to blow up players who don't know the match-up, off of any air juggle, combo into 6C [1] > B Hariken > 6D. If you time it correctly, they have to block it on emergency tech and it blue beat combos if they don't. Backdash universally escapes but if they don't know that then you can get level 3 drill every match for free.

 

I don't have time for a photoshop of Amane's hair color on this, so just imagine it, it'll have the desired effect

MV5BMjIyODA2NDg4NV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMjg4

 

-Gekiren loops don't work because 2B is not the same level iirc. More hitstun means that shit is gone.

-I'd try and get corner carry off fatal instead. 6B > jC > j236A > j.B > j.A > 5A > 5B > 6B > j.C > ... I've seen that loop, it does garbage damage but it looks fucking FABULOUS so that's a buff.

-I say fuck 2A > 2B > 3C > 236C, just go into 5D Ad eternum. Also isn't it possible to do 2A > 2B > 3C > 236C > RC > 5C > 6C now?

-What punishes 5D if it's that minus? 8-10 frames normals? Can't test that myself without the game hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

 

So is it possible combo after hariken lvl 1 ?

U Mean 3C > raibu ?

 

I think? If not micro dash 5B should connect.

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So is it possible combo after hariken lvl 1 ?

U Mean 3C > raibu ?

I can confirm that 3C (and faster normals) can combo off Lv 1 Hariken A drill. Microdash 5B is probably best for a follow up early in the combo to continue with 5C > 6C stuff, but it feels a bit inconsistent to me. It seems to hinge on whether you get three (huzzah) or two (bleh) hits of 5B, and it's hard to tell if it's a just a matter of gittin gud with microdashes.

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5B is definitely better for hit confirmation since you have many more options if they blocked instead. It's also faster and therefore a better frame trap. As for inconsistency, 5B juggles have always been inconsistent depending on character and height when hit.

 

I've already mostly subbed out hitconfirms into 3C 236C with 5D 236C, it does slightly more damage. As for 5D on block, it seems to be around -6 or -7. Ranga 5B does not punish on normal block but it does on instant block.

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huh, could have been worse. Let's see. Assuming similar recovery, the move is now level 2 ??? 13 frames of blockstun, 14 frames on hit? 18 frames on counter hit??? I recall when I first asked JP players about info, they said that 5D gave absolutely nothing on hit, even CH. Is the move still stagger/hold to tech? Even on counter hit, 5D > 236A > j.D can be mashed out if that's the case.

 

L M A O

 

Is it still the same frame data on lvl2 and lvl3? Hilarious if it'd be

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dear amane users :) watching japanese matches I noticed a very fast way to get closer to the opponent... I don't know if they do a double jump or jump + zettou cause the video quality is bad

Can you give me any advice about that?

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Zettou acts a bit differently according to your previous momentum? At leasts thats as good as I understand it.

Yeah zettou acts very different... Definetely better.. And also gosei is more smooth and faster... and the overheat gauge goes down faster

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Some stuff I never noticed before that was IN ANY WAY extensively tested.

 

- There is no pushback on Hariken drill if the foot stomp part doesn't connect. Removes the need for a microdash to get 5B to connect after the special. Can somewhat be controlled through spacing or number of 5D hits and level

- Hariken C will always be on screen if in the corner. This means anything > Hariken C will pop a drill there. Wonderful for level 3 drill pressure considering the pushback. Hitconfirm into 6C > 2D > j.6D for 6K damage if they get hit by hariken. Pretty much reversal safe. Removes 50% barrier on block

- Was 3C's range slightly buffed? This may just be 5B's reduced pushback, but it seems to hit really fucking far. I might confirm more standing hits into 3C > 236C on normal duration starters for better oki

- Early canceled 5D into 236A/B can often times be close enough for Amane to crossup. It's pretty slow, but 5D > crossup zettou wasn't a thing. j.2B is the fastest and can act as a fake crossup, delayed j.B will have Amane turn around mid-air. Neeeat

- Running away in neutral is so FUCKING GOOD in this game, dash > jump  > 236B while an enemy is walking towards you, and you're already full screen away from them.

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Did the barrier nerf affect Amane's game at all?

 

Assuming the 5D level 2 and level 3 barrier changes.

 

Short answer:

Yeah it did, there's more pushback now. Level 3 drill "character armor" isn't as noticeable because of that.

 

Long answer:

The question is pretty vague and I think it's more comprehensive to say that the move as a whole has changed as well as the drill gauge:

+ Special cancel on block

+ Reduced pushback on Drill level 1

+ Insane forward momentum on 5D

+ Drill gauge lowers slowly

+ Drill gauge lowers super fast if on drill level 3

+ Hariken drill can be used in pressure, drains a fuck ton of barrier, chips lightly, + on block

 

- Damage was slightly nerfed? Chip seems still efficient

- Pushback increases with drill level when barrier'd (INSANELY)

- Drill gauge increases slowly in pressure

- The move went from -1 to -6 or something close to that?

 

+/- Rewards and oki on hit are different from the last game

+/- The move's level having changed, hitstop values are different too. 5D has 16 hits. Connect all 16 hits in 1.1 and CPEX for level 3 drill, it's way faster in CPEX

 

There might be more to the changes that I can't think of right now or aren't prevalent. But that seems like the gist of things. You can't just look at the barrier pushback alone I'd say, too many things changed for you not to look at the new package as a whole.

 

But if you do look at it on it's own, you can't do 5D > RC > 5D for 3-4K like you used to be able to do. Pushback denies that. Don't get me wrong, 5D still does that 3K on block. It's just not brain dead or as I call it "Character armor"

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My old air juggle ender of j2C [2] > j214B >jB > jC > j6C > j236C seems a lot more inconsistent now, like their gravity is heavier or j236B is raising me a lot higher than before. I switched to doing j2C [1] < j214A instead in most of my hit confirms and it works much better. 

 

Hit confirming random hits is super hard again. 5D > 214A > jC > j236A/B is integral to his pressure game since it is so easy to DP him out of everything otherwise, but if I get counterhit or hit them out of jumping then my brain freezes and I have no idea what to do. I think jB > jc > jB > stuff will work but training my brain to react that quickly is hard. In the meantime, every JP player I have fought against has beaten me. Some of them destroyed me (Konan, Tsubaki is SO GOOD now wao).

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From the little I played, j2C(2) > j214A > jB seemed pretty consistent. But since I played so little, the use of the word consistent is incosistent with what I'm saying.

 

I dunno about 214A > jC pressure... Amane is way higher than he used to, following up feels a lot more odd than before. Being way higher removes 214A > jC > j2B or it's efficiency. Although it does bait DPs, I think I just prefer hopping back and airdash back in now because of that height difference. Same thing, just without the j.C blockstun.

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- Corner gekiren air tech traps don't work anymore. I'm not sure why, but don't try them.

 

Maybe there might be different routes to Gekiren tech traps this time around? I haven't tested thoroughly with different characters or tech types yet, but Short Starter > Raibu > 5a > Gekiren seems to be catching immediate neutral techs at least. 

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We go from "Beats hold to tech" to "Beats hold to neutral tech"

 

I can't test any of this, so bear with it or investigate from that.

 

Since this worked with specific height AND hitstun decay from 2B, the only way I see this working now is by using 5B or 5D which sends them flying toward the corner. That could help in preventing forward tech escape. 5D should have as much hitstun as 2B? So I'm thinking combo into Gekiren, 2B > 5B (N) > 6B > j.6C > j2B > 5B > 5D > 623C Reset coooould maybe work? It probably won't hit if they delay their tech as they'll land before it connects. 

 

Doesn't seem as reliable to me. Or here's a nice thing to test: Find new stuff to replace it. No reason to aim for that tech trap in particular if it's far less efficient. At least avoid relying on it.

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Would it be safe to say that it beats all held techs if it can beat forward ones? Would help to cut down on the number of combinations to test against.

 

Overall, it feels like just about anything > Raibu > 5A(1) can beat hold to tech. For normal starters, you can wind the combo timer down with a 6B loop before going into the reset.

 

So far, the following seems to beat all held techs against Amane, Carl, Celica, and Jin:

  • 2A > 2B > 3C > Raibu > 5A(1) > Gekiren reset - 1.5k
  • 5B > (2B >) 6B > j.C > j.236A > j.B > 2A > 2B > 3C > Raibu > 5A(1) > Gekiren reset - 2.4k, can add 2B to help get correct spacing conecting 6B > j.C
  • Throw > Raibu > 5A(1) > Gekiren reset - 2k
  • Throw > Gekiren > 5B > (3C >) Raibu > 5A(1) - 2.9k, doesn't work on opponents that 5B whiffs on down (Izayoi, etc.)

The 5A after Raibu wallstick can be delayed some to get the opponent lower for Gekiren height.

 

There's room for optimization, of course, and I haven't really delved into resets off combo parts that take the opponent airborne (i.e. using Gekiren earlier in the actual combo). 

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2A is one frame slower, same hitstun. They'd technically be hit lower on the screen, thus tech slightly less higher. I don't know if this changes anything since I can't test it, but I'm anticipating that certain characters may be able to escape it because you could in 1.1. That may be a false assumption though, but 2A should always be able to connect there anyway so why not?

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I tested it and 5a gekiren actually does catch air tech in all directions. But the setup is only a gimmick now, though. Doing gekiren > 2B > gekiren made it so that if your opponent didnt hold to tech after the first gekiren, you could instead reset them with j2B for lying on the ground too long. Delay tech just beats everything now. Dont try it on good players. Or better yet on anyone since it will encourage bad habits.

I have a lot of new thoughts about Amane. I got to grind for a very long time at Athena arcade and learned a lot. I'll have one more long session tomorrow and then I'm headed home on Tuesday. Will update on Wednesday with all my thoughts.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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