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Eshi

[CPEX] Amane Nishiki Q&A Thread

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All questions regarding Amane belong in this thread, from anything to gameplay to story mode. If you are asking a question, please put it in BOLD font to more easily distinguish it. For people answering questions, make sure to quote the original post so everyone knows which questions have been addressed!

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Why is this character considered bad/terrible/low tier?

Depends who you ask. I think he's fine, but I also think I have a high tolerance on that.

Aside from my opinion now. with a lack of offensive options to "open up" someone, Amane relies more on controlling neutral play to gain an advantage. While some of his normals are good, he does not win in every situation. Ground to air is good, air to air varies, ground to ground is slightly worse than air to air. So you need to avoid situations you can't win and force players to play in a way that you can exploit (gain drill, neutral scenarios where you win)

This means more decisions for often times less reward. More mental effort or stronger gameplan for same results. I think the same reward/effort ratio can be observed for the character in general.

 

EDIT: I'm willing to explain what's broad above in more details, just at work at the moment

RE-EDIT: I don't have extensive matchup experience, but if you are interested in a more detailed experience ask me about matchups you play more often so I can try and make it more relatable? (Just trying to make more people join in or relate I guess)

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Oh, I'm asking because I was thinking about picking him up as a sub. If that's his only issue, that shouldn't be too much of a barrier to play him. I can wait for the details I really want to use this guy

 

Thanks mate!

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That's what I see in the vaguest way though as what sticks out the most.

As far as having him as a sub. He's not sub par to the point of having only bad matchups. Saving him for the bad matchup on a main char seems wise

The big minus I see for a sub amane is that combos and hitconfirming with this guy required a lot of getting acquainted with. You can read notations, but choosing routes mid combos depending on many factors can be a hassle if it's a competitive sub. I'm talking from personnal experience on that one, might not be that way for you. Either way you'll see for yourself once you get that hands on time w/ him.

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Yeah he's designed for main status but if you're willing to put in the work, he can be a lot of fun. But there may be no end to the frustration in the beginning.

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Why is this character considered bad/terrible/low tier?

Too much work and risk for too little reward. Average hit confirms do extremely low damage, chip damage is very small at low drill levels and his easiest way to gain drill gauge requires 50 meter. And even then it only gives the potential to deal a lot of damage, whereas other characters just get that damage. He's a hit-and-run floaty zoner and he falls apart in a lot of match-ups that don't let him play that.

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Hi guys, new Amane player here. 

Trying to get a better feel for how to play this character. So in neutral, should I mostly be zettou hopping around the screen while fishing for hits with j.b? That's usually what I find myself doing since my pressure with Amane is lacking.

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Hello, I got my hands on CPEX Amane, but not long enough ;( I'd check myself but I don't have the game. So I have some ideas and questions about him. People might not know me but I used to be one of the few legit Amane players in Europe. I'm rusty now though ;(

 

- Do we have any legit blockstring into new Hariken drill? For example, is 3c  blockstun enough to make it a true blockstring?(if the foot part of hariken whiffs, try it point blank) Is crush trigger>rc>Hariken drill a good option? If it is, then Level 3 might be really scary.

- Are there new/better uses for crush trigger? Now that pushblock is absurd, I'd rather not use too much drill meter to eat their barrier gauge. Can we get more damage now by using ct for combos? Because new routes/changed proration. I know I'll be using ct>rc>whatever on Level3 just to eat barrier gauge.

- How viable is Hariken drill early in the combo? Can you go for tk j.2b>Hariken drill? Does it combo on hit? Is it a tight blockstring? Anyone tried CH 6A>Hariken drill as a combo route? I don't know the proration on new Hariken so I'm just throwing in some ideas.

- What do we get from Eshi's new corner Oki? I mean, if they don't try to/can't get out and just block. It looks like a 'clean' oki option but with lacking mixup our only option seems to pressure and/or pump drill levels. On Level 3 it obviously becomes a lot stronger though. Like, it's okayish but good players will just block and get out of Amanes cheese pressure. I know they will.

 

I'll also be posting some ideas in the discussion thread.

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- Do we have any legit blockstring into new Hariken drill?

There is no true blockstring into Hariken drill because it has too much start-up. 5B has the smallest punishable gap to cancel into Hariken however, and without instant block will beat any non-invincible mash iirc. 3C has too much pushback so the first hit of hariken drill will [almost?] always whiff. 

How viable is Hariken drill early in the combo?

I'm pretty sure TK j2B > Drill works since there's a bunch of corner combos that use it to combo into 6D, but it is definitely not a safe block string. However if you master doing j2B loop it would be a lot safer and I'm pretty sure that still works. I'll test it today and edit later.

 

6A Drill may work on counterhit but lots of normals in recovery are missing counterhit frames so you'll get no confirm. Also really unsafe on block. 

What do we get from Eshi's new corner Oki?

It's similar to drill oki in 1.1, better in some ways and worse in others. Drill start-up took longer in 1.1 so more characters could punish it on reaction, but if it worked then you gained level 3 drill. Also the spacing on it was a bit fickle, if you messed it up slightly then they could just roll out of it and kill you. 

 

In Extend, faster drills makes it more safe against reversals while simultaneously shutting down roll, but at level 1 you're only around +9 on block it's not great against characters with good DPs. At level 2/3 the pressure is ridiculous. I created this setup because I think j2B oki is just not great anymore. You can time it so that it beats rolls/quick rise, or you could time it so it safejumps reversals, but you couldn't do both and slightly late timing meant eating the DP anyway. The setup isn't that strong at level 1 drill but it's very stable at least.

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Not extensively tested, but my take on it is that j.2B > hariken only works in some combos because the opponent bounces high enough.

I doubt in a j.2B loop you could do it. But if you do j.2B > rc > j2b > hariken, it works. That second j.2B has a higher bounce.

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I feel like RC for hitting Hariken earlier (Because you can easily hit it anyway) wouldn't be quite worth it. However, I haven't tested it much myself, so I could be wrong.

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So I played 1.1 Amane for a while and finally got Extend and I've notice that a lot of the things that gave easy level 3 drill were the trade-off for special cancel-able drills. So my question is how has Amane's pressure game changed?

 

Are there gapless drill block strings or do we need to rely on conditioning people to respect the chains? This is arguably one of Amane most important thing to learn from what I've seen and is probably one of my worst aspects in fighters, so i want to know of any big changes before I forfeit part of my life to getting as good as I can.

Also, will we be seeing a new primer for Amane's pressure like in the 1.1 thread?

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Also, will we be seeing a new primer for Amane's pressure like in the 1.1 thread?

 

I'd have more energy discussing it over trying to edit a long write-up that attempts to be some form of authority on the matter. Especially since there's a lot more subtle things that an opponent on defense can do to lower your overall pressure's efficiency, subtle things which I think I havn't fully adapted to or taken knowledge of. For instance, yesterday I realized in training that 236A > j.D is more efficient if slightly closer to the opponent, other wise j.B is still more interesting. Reasons being

1: j.D changes air trajectory and Amane lands faster. You can effectively hop at different ranges because of this without Amane crossing up akwardly over crouching opponents. 

2: Opponent barrier is less meaningful on you during j.D if you are closer, effectively making both landing right away versus using j.236A > j.D hold a similar value as far as pressure goes.

3: Allows for a weird j.2B crossup if they respect it or something like hop above > wait or airturn > j.B if you want a sideswitch during pressure / Slightly mess fuzzy guards (AKA upbacking)

 

I think the same mindset of the previous guide applies. Pressure resets options hold a certain value at specific ranges, you can alternate your pressure to make the opponent more confident in reading over reacting, you exploit patient people with drill options, etc. etc. Exploiting defensive options though is what's not fully mapped out though.

 

Reduced pushback, changes to his normals bring variants in blockstrings. In what exact way? I dunno, 2B is nice though.

 

One thing to almost remove entirely from the guide is the whole drill oki, some stuff still exists, but you don't have stuff that qualifies as an inescapable reset anymore with 6D

 

I think that sums up most of my current thought process if I ever was to outline a pressure overview like I did for 1.1

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I think that sums up most of my current thought process if I ever was to outline a pressure overview like I did for 1.1

Thank you DerQ! Another question I had was how important is being able to perform instant j.2b consistently, and how do I learn how to perform it?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

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Thank you DerQ! Another question I had was how important is being able to perform instant j.2b consistently, and how do I learn how to perform it?

 

oh btw, there was a lot less care into the post talking about pressure in CPEX and lot more predicting without testing, sooooo big grain o' salt and experimentation on your end is advised.

 

I'm not sure how important j2B is, here's some rambling to perspective to let you reach your own conclusion. Took me a while to get it down, I don't practice execution all that much so I still mess it up now and then. Like all execution matters, I'd go back and practice it at a later time (over the span of days, weeks and months) and found that I became more consistent about it, even up to the point of being able to do 5-6 reps max of the j.2B loop. As an oki tool, it's useful in the corner. If you can get opponents in a corner oki setup, there's some use to it. Although now we also have Hariken as a decent or better alternative depending on the knockdown. As a pressure tool, I found it pretty useful since a lot of players who have never seen something like 236A > j.B > j.A > land > dash > j2B > 2B > 3C usually get hit by 2B. It's a nice variant that converts big time in the corner.

 

Fucking up an attempt in matches is either an akward moment where you bounce in front of them, a proper reaction into j.236/214 A/B (which can still keep momentum/convert a hit). You can lose momentum because of it, or they let you do it and you carry on.

Soooo, all factors combined : Great corner usefulness, Decent to better alternatives with no execution requirements, consistency improves greatly with minimal practice over time, variable result upon failure. That sums up my experience, I don't want to project yours will be the same. Maybe you have higher standard for execution / utilizing your tools then I do, or faster/easier learning curve. W/e

 

As far as learning it, I'm not a good coach at that, generic advice like "Practice the input more slowly, put some background music, try using it in matches, etc" is about as much as I can give you. I mean, the input is any variant of jump (7 8 or 9) into any variant of down and B (1 2 or 3). That performed fast enough. Landing recovery is hastened by dashing and is the only way to allow for j.2B loops

 

hope that helps? Geez I have a knack for writing novels on here

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hope that helps? Geez I have a knack for writing novels on here

Actually I had no idea dashing was part of quickening landing recovery so that should help.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

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Good habit to take if practicing this. My input is pretty much 93B66

 

EDIT: actually might be 1 instead of 3, I usually slam my hand to the left regardless of the side I am on the screen, it's faster

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Ah, I didn't know that dashing out of the landing recovery was a thing.

 

As for the input, I think one of the alternate inputs for the low j.2b was 92 - press and hold B at the same time as an upward direction for the jump, and immediately input 2 afterwards.

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No other move has the landing recovery properties of Amane's j2B AFAIK, it's very strange. Basically the move has landing recovery unless Amane does any action after it such as dashing, attacking or even blocking (which is why it works as a safejump).

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even blocking (which is why it works as a safejump).

Probably not useful, but I'm curious nonetheless. Does that apply only if the game recognize an attack against Amane? If no strike is coming, holding back doesn't reduce landing recovery right?

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Probably not useful, but I'm curious nonetheless. Does that apply only if the game recognize an attack against Amane? If no strike is coming, holding back doesn't reduce landing recovery right?

Yeah, the animation has to get triggered by proximity blocking or something because it won't happen otherwise

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Something else to mention about j2B: it's possible to input the B prior to pushing a downwards direction rather than pushing it afterwards. That helped me personally with my execution of the j2B loops. Like: 66 9 B 2 (comes out as dash j2B)

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Hi guys I would like to know what central fiction amane needs to become a stronger character? Or what do you hope for?

I miss having cool 6D set-ups and while the hakiren A>RC>6D set up looks really cool it requires 50 meter. In addition to that having more ways/ faster ways to build drill than we do now would be pretty cool.

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