[CPEX] Tsubaki Q&A Thread

[Kiba]

 

 

You guys know the drill. Ask and you shall receive.

[xtanukix]

Is there any document which lists all of Tsubaki's bbcpe changes?

[chzchan]

I posted this a while ago based on Japanese footage at the time, but it is now slightly updated with all the things that have been tested so far. I'll add more stuff to it eventually.

 

+

Better overall proration on nearly all normals which means higher general combo damage.
Stabilization of DP whiff routes thanks to adjusted launching of 623C.
New, efficient high damage combo routes using 214D's jump cancellability and Crush Trigger or OD as well as 236D's new launching attribute.
Reliable chargeless side switch combos which even work on airborne enemies by using 236C's new cross through attribute.
Combo routes will encounter SMP less because regular usage and followup usage for special moves have been divided.
Knockdown off of successful DP instead of knockback thanks to new j.214X attributes.
1 charge midscreen air combo extender with j.214D's new bounce attribute that allows it to be picked up with 2A or 623C.
236236C while in OD enables a followup for more damage when used in combos or as a reversal without having to spend charges.
More damage off of command grab with damage bumped up to 1200.

Conventional IAD route replaced with stable 6CC IAD route.

Faster startup and speed on 236X.

Lower recovery on j.214X.

5D and 2D charge rates accelerate over time.

2A now OTGs and has a much much better hitbox which allows more consistent roll catching.

236D and 22D are +2 on block.

 

-

22 followup slide attribute was mitigated which actually leads to the loss of a variety of things.
Reliable corner oki using j.236A is gone due to 22 followup no longer allowing a link because of the lack of slide. (There is a secret to getting it to link to normals that OTG like 2B and 6C but I have been told that it is very unreliable and hard to pull off and it doesn't make the oki any less impossible to do than it is right now because of positioning problems)
Ease of staying on the opponent while close to the corner is gone due to mitigated 22 followup slide, or at least that's how it looks. (Not like it already wasn't really hard for Tsubaki to stay on top of the opponent after a knockdown, but seems like air knockdown is much much more popular now because of followup 22's change)
6C jump cancellability on block was taken away, so it can no longer be used in pressure as a way to deal with opponents who like to use barrier.
214X followup tracking autocorrection is gone.
22[D] followup no longer wallbounces midscreen.
236C > 5A/2A/5C corner link route still exists but always causes side swap.
j.214D > 6C route is gone.
Global damage reduction to all special moves, especially followup versions of the moves and D versions relative to their current damage, so adding charges to combos does not add on as much damage as it would currently.
Stagger resets are gone because of 236D's new launching attribute and the fact that 236C causes knockdown/emergency tech when crossing through the opponent rather than stagger.
22B now knocks back and away on both normal and counter hit regardless of if the opponent is in the air or on the ground which means it can no longer be followed up by 6C with a rapid on normal hit or by linking with a counter hit like it can be right now due to stagger state. 22B counterhit can only be followed up in the corner.
5A2C no longer connects so 2C may have been made slower and this kills a lot of adlib combo routes.

 

5A: Attack level increased by 1. Recovery increased by 2 (Now 11)

5B: Same

5BB: Same

5C: Same

5CC: Same

2A: Lower hitbox greatly enlarged and can pick opponents up off the ground. Attack level increased by 1. Recovery increased by 2 (Now 10)

2B: Same

2BB: Same

2C: Same

2CC: Much less untech time and launches higher

6A: Same

6B: Same

6BB: Same

6C: No longer jump cancellable on block

6CC: Increased untech time so IAD j.C is easier to land.

3C: Same

3CC: Same

j.A: Same

j.B: Same

j.BB: Same

j.C: Same

j.CC: Same

5D: Charge rate acceleration over time.

2D: Charge rate acceleration over time.

j.D: Same (?)

Throw: Same (all grabs had a universal increase in recovery on whiff though)

Back Throw: Same

Air Throw: Same

Counter Assault: Same

Crush Trigger: Same

[Errol]

2c isn't slower, jabs or maybe lvl 0/1 universally lost untech time. 

[chzchan]

Oh wait really? Oops I guess I did frame data wrong for 2C. I guess a lot of things just lost untech time then.

[Mcgreag]

With the 22 > 5C route in the corner gone are there any reasonable chargeless corner extender that a scrub like me can do (that means something easier than the delay 22 > 5D > 6C thing)?

[chzchan]

They still stem from the DP whiff route, but here. This one isn't too difficult. Gets you half a charge mid-combo as well, but the damage difference is only ~100 when compared to the non-Konan loop version of the 5BB5CC starter combo midscreen.

 

[] 5BB5CC > 623C > j.236A(dw) > 5C2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.D > j.B > dj.BCC > j.214A [3124 DM]

[KeyBlaz]

So I'm pretty much scrubbing it up and can not get this j214a wiff. Is there any tips for getting that wiff down.

[chzchan]

j.214A? You mean j.236A whiff?

[KeyBlaz]

5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A(w) > 5C > 2C > 214B > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.236A > j.214A

I can't get this combo going I always drop at that junction My 5C always comes out right at the tech window.

 

However after digging deeper into the combo forumns I see a lot of combos do j236A(w) as well. Like is the combo above old news now and basically we have to change it to j.236A(w). Was just trying to find some simple BnB's to start with and get back to basics. 

[Zouf]

It's not j.214(w) but j.236A(w). 

 

And there is no precise timing, the window is kinda loose, just practice over and over and you'll get it down.

 

You can see it here : https://youtu.be/bpQgpN7Fl6s?t=186

 

You see the red bubble forming around Tsubaki after her DP? That's the startup animation of j.236A. You do it close to the ground, and it will actually cancel the landing recovery of the DP, allowing us to combo 5C after it.

[Kiba]

It's not j.214(w) but j.236A(w). 

 

5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214X(w) > 5C > 2C works too y'know.

 

Keyblaz if you want to do that combo consistently, you need to cancel into j.214A(w) immediately, and then you need to input 5C immediately after landing. There isn't much difference between the use of 623C > j.214X(w) and 623C > j.236A(w). Using 623C > j.214X(w) makes the j.B > j.CC > 2C a little harder due to the opponent's height, but that doesn't matter here because you're not using it.

[KeyBlaz]

Thanks for the help didn't mean to cause a problem between j.214a (w) vs j.236a (w). I appreciate the advice though thanks.

[chzchan]

5BB > 5CC > 623C > j.214A(w) > 5C > 2C > 214B > 5C > 2CC > j.C > dj.CC > j.236A > j.214A

I can't get this combo going I always drop at that junction My 5C always comes out right at the tech window.

However after digging deeper into the combo forumns I see a lot of combos do j236A(w) as well. Like is the combo above old news now and basically we have to change it to j.236A(w). Was just trying to find some simple BnB's to start with and get back to basics.

Alright. The path you chose is the harder one because you have to consistently input as quickly as possible to allow for the 5C link just like in 1.1 minus the microdashing.

You can keep using this route, but I'd say it is slightly harder on the hands so I would advise against sticking with it. Like Kiba also mentioned, it does affect the mid-combo positioning.

[Airk]

So what is our "big punish with reasonable resources" combo now?  In 1.1 I could do like 5.6K off a single charge install combo if I got a CH 5C with 50 meter and a charge.  What can we do with similar "resources you might actually have" punish combos?

[chzchan]

CH 5C > 214D > jccCT is the way to go. Doesn't get 5.6k, but 5.2k is pretty good for 25% less heat in my opinion. Mugen is just not that great this version. If 214D was not jump cancellable I think it'd see more use.

[Zouf]

So what is our "big punish with reasonable resources" combo now?  In 1.1 I could do like 5.6K off a single charge install combo if I got a CH 5C with 50 meter and a charge.  What can we do with similar "resources you might actually have" punish combos?

 

CH 5C > 6C(1) > 214D > CT > 6B(1) > 623C > j.236A(w) > 5C 2C > 214B > ender (4800~) : easy to confirm and to do

 

CH 5C > 214D > CT > 6CC > IAD JCC > 5C 2C > ender (5100~) : harder to confirm but easy to do

 

Both use 1 charge 25% heat

[chzchan]

So let's say you have already used your air option by IADing or double jumping but you happen to make your opponent block an air normal. In some of these cases you may be near the ground but your opponent may be positioned differently depending on the situation. There is a situation I am caught up in fairly often that I always seem to get punished for. If the opponent and I are still in the air and I don't fall faster than the opponent after I land whatever normals on them while they are blocking, what do I do?

I feel like my only safe route is to block and that is specifically when I had been positioned at the same level before I made them block something that isn't j.CC as j.CC makes you float and touch down on the ground later than the opponent if both of you were at the same vertical air positioning. If I try to punish mashing by doing delayed j.CC, I usually get AA'd or DP'd though if I get AA'd it is usually my fault for not making the gap small. The gap being small makes it just as easy to punish if it is being used for the sake of getting to the ground while the opponent is still blocking. If I am below then all is good, but if I am above them I just feel helpless, especially if I made them block a j.C since I know that j.C doesn't have enough blockstun to allow me to continue pressure when I hit the ground and j.CC is a terrible option for reasons mentioned above. Should I be ending the incredibly short blockstring with j.236A or something? Should I not be using j.C for air-to-air engagements at all? Then goddamn instant block makes things even worse.

[Seventh-Prodigy]

Any tips for inputting 214D > jcCT? I can't get it consistently and it seems essential to combos.

[Zouf]

Practice, there is no trick to this.

 

At least I haven't found one, it's just timing based, so grind training mode

 

edit : just input 8 a little after you've input 214D, and input A+B just a few frames after 214D hits. Should work easily

[Seventh-Prodigy]

Thanks for the help. Looks like I'm able to execute it consistently by inputting 82 > A+B as soon as 214D hits. The motion helps (me) time the cancel.

[prototype047]

Anyone do trial 20 yet? Can't find any video for it.

[robot_insurance]

Anyone do trial 20 yet? Can't find any video for it.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26270407

[NowItsAngeTime]

I have a few questions regarding general strategy for Tsubaki:

• Generally Tsubaki's neutral is not good/easy to disrespect right? Is this because of lack of range and priority on most of her moves?
• What's her main strength to counter her not so good neutral? Her long combos and mix of blockstring pressure options?
• In Tsubaki's average matchup her goal is to get in people's face and keep on her pressure until she can her good long combos right?
• What's the benefit if using her command throw over regular throw when you have to RC it for comboing?
• Is there any point to using any of her non-command throw Sanctus specials outside combos?

[Zouf]

I have a few questions regarding general strategy for Tsubaki:

• Generally Tsubaki's neutral is not good/easy to disrespect right? Is this because of lack of range and priority on most of her moves?
• What's her main strength to counter her not so good neutral? Her long combos and mix of blockstring pressure options?
• In Tsubaki's average matchup her goal is to get in people's face and keep on her pressure until she can her good long combos right?
• What's the benefit if using her command throw over regular throw when you have to RC it for comboing?
• Is there any point to using any of her non-command throw Sanctus specials outside combos?

1) I wouldn't say she lacks range. She's a rushdown character, so I think her moves are ok-ish for this aspect of the game. She's not ragna alright, but she's not makoto either.

2) The best DP in the game. 5B > 6B gatling which is really good at max range, and +1 on guard. 3C to catch your opponent offguard. She can stagger many of her moves into others because she has twice has much normal than the rest of the cast. Know that all her gatling (except 6A/B/C) are true blockstrings, even on instant block. She also has a very good mobility, and instant air dash JCC is strong to get in the face of your opponent.

3) Her pressure is weak because she doesn't have many move at + (6B +1, 5C > 5D +0, 236D +2) so she can't really reset it. You can mix between overhead 6A and low 6B, because they almost have the same animation and both lead to a combo. But it is easily direspectable. Her command throw should be used if the opponent doesn't mash too much. She also has a kara-throw (6C > throw). Again, air dash j.CC is good. It's a double overhead so a lot of people will get caught by the second hit. And upon landing, you are +, so you can mash 5A and get a counter hit easily, because a lot people will think they can mash here. And of course, frametraps by staggering your moves and rekkas. Ending a string with delayed 22D sometimes lead to a nice opening.

4) Command throw is untechable and gives 2 free install gauge. It will also lead to a 3k+ combo if RC-ed.

5) Her fireball is very useful in neutral. 214D is body invul and has its use in neutral as well. Actually, most D moves are strong in neutral. 236D to get in, 214D at midrange, 22D has a long reach and is +. Her others "normal" specials are all minus on guard (and punishable), but 22B is ok to end a pressure. It's more or less safe (at least, i don't know anyone who can punish it because it pushes you very far away), but both 214B / 236A/B/C are unsafe. Of course her DP is godlike, so feel free to use it whenever you feel like it. Some people will tell you j.214D is good, but i'm not convinced myself that it is.

 

Well, you pretty much answered your own questions, so there you are.