[CT] Iron Tager vs. v-13

[Skye]

I'm not trolling -- that act of deliberately upsetting others. I'm telling it straight up and if you take offense to it, that's your fault. I'll leave, but in all honesty, if it's already been decided that V-13 has a ridiculously easy time with Tager, akin to facing Meta Knight as Captain Falcon. Pick someone else.

[Osuna]

I'm not trolling -- that act of deliberately upsetting others.

I'm telling it straight up and if you take offense to it, that's your fault.

I'll leave, but in all honesty, if it's already been decided that V-13 has a ridiculously easy time with Tager, akin to facing Meta Knight as Captain Falcon.

Pick someone else.

This is what was pissing us off. He wasn't telling us straight up, he was just plain wrong about pretty much every assertion he made. And he was arguing with us even though he literally knew nothing about either character...Raaaage.

Sigh.

Thanks for responding even to me HZMN, despite all distractions. Does Nu get the second sword even if the first one whiffs? That's messed up.

[HZMN]

This is what was pissing us off. He wasn't telling us straight up, he was just plain wrong about pretty much every assertion he made. And he was arguing with us even though he literally knew nothing about either character...Raaaage.

Sigh.

Thanks for responding even to me HZMN, despite all distractions. Does Nu get the second sword even if the first one whiffs? That's messed up.

If whiffs she doesn't get a second sword. But the sword that comes from behind isn't a followup though. So the big question that I don't have an answer for right now is:

If Tager backdashes Nu's 5D sword would the recovery time of that sword and the startup time for the sword that comes from behind be enough to throw off any combo that could potentially start up from Spark Bolt since hitting Nu does not effect the swords.

@Skye

You may not be intentionally trolling, but your doing a damn good job of it. You pretty much came in here and started telling us to play a different character just cause its one of Tagers worst matchups. I swear its like this with any Smash Bros players, counterpicking is really prominent in that (party) game. Rather than actually coming up with methods to stop X character with Y Character, you Smash Bros guys would rather just counterpick with Z cause Y sucks against X. Like I said before, that screams inbalance to the highest of levels.

[Isorropia]

I could be wrong, but I think that Nu's recovery on her swords is shorter than backdash + volt startup. That being said, if they're going robotic and following up with 4D even on a whiff 5D, then it's quite possible to catch them out with it.....this is all theory, naturally. Also, don't know if this has been asked before....but will 360A beat out Nu's 5D > act pulsar forward > 2C? @HZMN Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm going to assume you don't play smash. The reason that we don't 'come up with methods to stop X character with Y character' is because those methods often don't exist. As a platform fighter the gameplay is focused more on spacing approaches and knowing what moves of yours beat what moves of theirs, and the stages have a large influence on the match. That being said, counterpicking in smash can't be directly compared to counterpicking in 2d fighters, since the factors influencing a matchup are different, and aren't necessarily something that 'screams imbalance'. (Not that smash is balanced by any means)

[Osuna]

Does it have to be a shot? can I move forward by some other means if she's recovering from a sword? The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to say no, but I'd like something to come of it.

[Isorropia]

Well, playing in score attack, I noticed interesting things happened when the computer IB'd her swords....but they mostly just backdashed, ate the 4D into a normal sword combo....I think anything that works, will work less for tager due to his large number of prejump frames.

[ConHuevosGuey]

Score attack uses Unlimited Nu, so using her as a reference is a bad idea.

[EagleJin]

If whiffs she doesn't get a second sword. But the sword that comes from behind isn't a followup though. So the big question that I don't have an answer for right now is:

If Tager backdashes Nu's 5D sword would the recovery time of that sword and the startup time for the sword that comes from behind be enough to throw off any combo that could potentially start up from Spark Bolt since hitting Nu does not effect the swords.

I've tried this backdash several times (a friend plays Nu). The sword from behind has been blocked and not blocked several times. Looks to be an issue of doing the backdash early enough and spacing inbetween contestants..

[Maho]

If whiffs she doesn't get a second sword. But the sword that comes from behind isn't a followup though. So the big question that I don't have an answer for right now is:

If Tager backdashes Nu's 5D sword would the recovery time of that sword and the startup time for the sword that comes from behind be enough to throw off any combo that could potentially start up from Spark Bolt since hitting Nu does not effect the swords.

So you say that Tager backdashes a 5D, then after her recovery the v13 does a 4D?

Yeah the spark will hit there and you'll get it by the 4D as well so you won't always get a combo, but actually the v13 just have no reason to do a 4D after whiffing a 5D, especially with your you having your spark ready.

Also backdashing a 5D isn't something you'll do on reaction, and random backdashing against v13 can give her a free combo, but you can backdash 4D on reaction easely though. I do it almost everytime unless i'm in B sledge range (which won't happen if the player knows what he does), sadly you don't get a sure spark hit after this, but it's better than blocking it as nu can't go on with a block string after whiffing the 4D, so that's a little less free meter for her.

[CrazyI-nomitsu]

I like the game, but it shouldn't be comapre to something like Blazblue. But back on topic guys. What is the worst thing Nu can do to you if you trying to 236a/B her swords? I heard everyone talk about it, but never explain what she can do after it. Anyone know the asnwer?

[Osuna]

I like the game, but it shouldn't be comapre to something like Blazblue. But back on topic guys. What is the worst thing Nu can do to you if you trying to 236a/B her swords? I heard everyone talk about it, but never explain what she can do after it. Anyone know the asnwer?

Depends on the range you do it at, but essentially whatever distance you are at after the sledge and she has backdashed or you've whiffed otherwise means she gets a counter hit on whatever attack she uses into a Bnb combo.

[Isorropia]

Basically, since she gets act pulsar (the command backdash), she can backdash on reaction, and recover in time to CH you with swords while you're still doing your sledge. She could also jump after her swords if she felt like it.

[Maho]

For the 236B, from far range, cancel into 236236D super for about 6000dmg, jump cancel into j2DD 214D into 236B's recovery for an easy punish, depening on the timing act pulsar backwards into another 5D giving a 4000+ dmg combo can be done, that will also be her punisher if you do a whiff a sledge and she wasn't doing anything. From closer range she can jump cancel to at least be safe, cancel into 632146D super for 5000+ dmg. From far range 236A gets you killed without the need for the v13 player to even think, the second hit of 5DD will hit you and she can get an 4000+ dmg combo, from close range she might be able to jump cancel block depending on the timing, do the 632146D or eat counter, but well a v13 player shouldn't do a sword if you're close to him.

[Skye]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkOTCa-1YoI

[HZMN]

Not sure what your trying to prove with this video. Yes, it is possible for Tager to Nu, but the matchup is EXTREMELY reliant on mistakes made by the Nu player. At around the 2:25 mark in the video, Goryus made one of the stupidest mistakes you can possible make on a Tager if your magnetized, and that was Air Teching. If Goryus had just fallen, I think the entire first match would have been his victory rather than MikeZ's. If you are trying to prove that Tager has a chance to win against Nu, this does very little to reinforce your point. Nice Avi of Latooni though

[Raiderwarlord99]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkOTCa-1YoI

That vid prove absolutely nothing if anything it showed nu what not to do when playing against Tager

[Leo7]

Also, don't know if this has been asked before....but will 360A beat out Nu's 5D > act pulsar forward > 2C?

I don't think this question was answered so ...

If Nu act pulsar's right beside you, you can time your 360 so that it catches them right as they come out of the teleport. They'll probably stop doing stuff like act pulsar + throw at that point, and just act pulsar out of grab range though.

I'm not entirely sure if you can 360 grab Nu during her actual dash though.

[Skye]

Not sure what your trying to prove with this video.

Nice Avi of Latooni though

I just thought it would be nice if you guys took some notes on the match up.

n.n

Nice Avi of Latooni though

Why thank you.

[Mike Z]

Maybe this should go in the combo thread too, but I tend to land a lot of 2Ds against Nu (you can get them easily if you predict a 5D) and I came up with these...

Vs. Bursted Nu (which happens right away ;^) starting with:

-- 49 meter: 2D, late RC 6A->2C, small delay 5D xx Shot, wait until she almost lands 5C->6A->2C xx AC, RC BSledge. 100% damage. That's right, even with an RC in the middle, this combo builds you 51 meter for the RC at the end and will kill Bursted Nu/Carl/Ragna (although good luck getting the 2D etc 2C on Carl).

-- 35 meter: 2D, late RC 6A->2C small delay 5D xx Shot, wait until she almost lands 5C->6A->2C xx AC. vs. Burst the 2D will give you 15 meter, so you can pretty much do this whenever, and it does around 98% damage.

[Drges]

Hey guys, I've playing some Tager vs. Nu, and want to know your thoughts. I Note that I haven't tested anything extensively (yet), only that I can hit with the j.D consistently (at least, against Nu). I scanned the Nu thread, and did not see this, but sorry if this was already discussed.

After getting an Atomic Collider in, rather than 6C -> 5D or Sledge, I do 6C xx jc, j.D (must be done immediately after Tager gets off the ground. As usual, if your opponent decides to air tech forward or backward, they will eat an AC. The advantage in this is that your opponent is MUCH closer than if you did a standing D, your opponent is a bit higher, and you're not eating the recovery of the standing D and allows you to control the field before your opponent can recover. What I like to follow up with afterwards is 2D, if they're teching neutral air or on the ground. This allows you to pull them in even closer (safely, if they neutral tech, I believe), or if they teched incorrectly, go into a 2D, RC combo.

Edit: SledgeB can also hit them if they wait too long to tech. They can neutral tech as soon as they hit the ground so that it'll whiff, so you might be able to follow up with a 720 or something. I think it's safe, as you can block pretty much anything she does out of tech, and your 2A will also beat her A. 2D will also whiff, of course, but Nu will be on the other side, and there will be a bit more distance between you two.

Edit2: Atomic Collider will only catch people backwards air teching if you do it as soon as you hit the ground, so you have to buffer it while you're landing if you think Nu will backwards air tech (unless the opponent delays the tech a bit, or something)

Again, I haven't tried this much against people yet, so your mileage may vary.

Maybe this should go in the combo thread too, but I tend to land a lot of 2Ds against Nu (you can get them easily if you predict a 5D) and I came up with these...

Vs. Bursted Nu (which happens right away ;^) starting with:

-- 49 meter: 2D, late RC 6A->2C, small delay 5D xx Shot, wait until she almost lands 5C->6A->2C xx AC, RC BSledge. 100% damage. That's right, even with an RC in the middle, this combo builds you 51 meter for the RC at the end and will kill Bursted Nu/Carl/Ragna (although good luck getting the 2D etc 2C on Carl).

-- 35 meter: 2D, late RC 6A->2C small delay 5D xx Shot, wait until she almost lands 5C->6A->2C xx AC. vs. Burst the 2D will give you 15 meter, so you can pretty much do this whenever, and it does around 98% damage.

Nice!

[IronTager]

Say... This might be dumb and I haven't tested this yet, however... Let's say, I DO B Sledge them when they're cornering me. What if when they come in to try to attack, you do a rapid cancel? I mean, would it be a good tactic to trick Nu players?

[Osuna]

Say... This might be dumb and I haven't tested this yet, however... Let's say, I DO B Sledge them when they're cornering me. What if when they come in to try to attack, you do a rapid cancel? I mean, would it be a good tactic to trick Nu players?

You can only rc on hit or block, so I don't quite understand what you're getting at.

[IronTager]

Right, bleckh, sorry, I wasn't thinking too straight and kind of thought it was a good theory at the time, not to mention that I got a bit desperate after seeing quite a few videos of V-13 just whiping out Tager. It's just such a bitch that there's so much that you can't do against her with Tager. Even Bang has a chance against her, but then again, he isn't as bad as people say in my honest opinion. Anyhow, I also want to help contribute because I wish to be of help to others, however, I don't have much to provide since my PS3 is always hogged up by my brothers *Sigh* Sorry

[A.X.I.S.]

haha let me give you the run down for this match tager... odds 3-7 v13 favor... things to do. 1. let her make her first move, no need to rush off and eat a combo trying to make a move you dont see coming. 2. find a way to get in but be quick about it... best means are B sledging her at the right distance, nu only knows counter hit when it comes to sledge. if your far away then high jump J.C and block when she fires..if you do it right she cant punish you. 3. dont let her get away, dont matter what your means are but if you end up using a combo to magnetize then you can get away with J.D to pull her in a bit closer...you wanna get her in sledge range to eat a combo anyways and she knows it. 4. for god sakes if you see her do that gravity zone shit dont sledge, you will not move and you will die, if anything walk and prepare to barrier. 5. dont give up ever, nu enjoys seeing tager cry and wobble helplessly, make her feel like she's gonna lose.. 6. if you see arc parser then block? if you see her use 5C? i think its the one that shoots her mini sword things at you..then sledge it, its a projectile and nu over use it. 7. dont go blow for blow her C's are too good its a pretty good way to eat a combo. mike Z's fight with that V13 in may is a inspiration go watch it..in fact watch all those matches... i can try to make a guide but everyone fights nu differently you know. my issues with this fight. 1. you die screaming. 2. tager is too big he eats 5k+ damage easy if she has heat. 3. your way in is predictable. 4. gravity field makes punishing her swords impossible when your in it. 5. she doesnt die screaming. 6. arc parser spam is discouraging. 7. nu doesnt get hung on a tree then beaten if you win. ok edited.

[Osuna]

haha let me give you the run down for this match tager...

odds 3-7 v13 favor...

first things first in this fight, let that bitch move first...dont sledge dont jump dont do anything until you know what she's planning! she can zone your shit in or spam C until you die..and yes a nu tried that shit on me...i hate that moving on.

next you only wanna sledge to get closer but only if you are gonna pass any D move or hit her...B sledge is your life but it will kill you if you wiff it...so try your best not to ok?

if she is too far she will 9-10 V13's will shoot at you to punish your walk...high Jump J.C and i mean ASAP j.c unless you like eating 3800 damage off it...trust me its rape.

if you do it right you have time to normal block before she can prod you...

those are like step one of so many things...this fight is balls but if you know how to do it then v13 wont look at tager as another whimp.

mike Z's fight with that V13 in may is a inspiration go watch it..in fact watch all those matches...

i can try to make a guide but everyone fights nu differently you know.

I'm having a hard time deciphering this post.

You say to sledge in, and that it is your life but if you whiff you'll die meaning you can't sledge in and it is a bad idea? "if she is too far she will 9-10 V13's will shoot at you to punish your walk." What does that mean?