Ragna Critique and Self-Improvement Thread

[toanenadiz]

The problem with laggy matches is that its hard to tell when the problem is you or when the problem is the lag...

You should just tell him everything that he did right and wrong and he should be able to distinguish what was caused by lag and what wasn't.

[Goukitech]

The problem with laggy matches is that its hard to tell when the problem is you or when the problem is the lag...

That's true, on some of those matches I'd be throwing out 5bs spaced properly but because of lag, i'd carry on running and get hit in the face. I do have some execution issues that i need to work out online, but lag did play a part in some of them, not always though. I was getting bodied a few days ago so i've just gotta go in training mode and get my execution better I suppose.

[MashThat5A]

You should just tell him everything that he did right and wrong and he should be able to distinguish what was caused by lag and what wasn't.

Did you watch these? There's like, a second of lag in these matches O_o.

One thing I'll say is never, ever, use 6A on a blocking opponent.

[Goukitech]

Duly noted, I'll wait till I get some better, less laggy games. Sorry.

[Zeron_X25]

Did you watch these? There's like, a second of lag in these matches O_o.

One thing I'll say is never, ever, use 6A on a blocking opponent.

6A > IAD D ID?

Pretty gdlk to me.

[KayEff]

it's really not

[Goukitech]

Got a less laggy one today!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSbF_aa994s

Some self review;

- Using Hell's fang (1) too much as a blockstring ender and expecting 2+A+B+C to save me

- Should use 2D, Dead Spikes and if they're blocking low a lot, Gauntlet hades to end blockstrings. (Made this mistake with the Jin I think, could have caught him with a few GHs.)

- Don't use 6A > JC in blockstrings as it's easily anti-aired

- Could have finished the Rachel with a Carnage Scissors after the Back Throw in one of the rounds.

- Don't Dash after blocked Dead Spikes/6Cs

- Practice the new 5B, 5C, Hell's Fang(1), RC, 6C, Dash Cancel, 6B, 5C, 5D, Dash Cancel 5C/6A, JC, ETC. combo more. Is it better to use 6A over 5C now?

C&C most welcome!

[-Seo]

- Don't Dash after blocked Dead Spikes/6Cs

- Practice the new 5B, 5C, Hell's Fang(1), RC, 6C, Dash Cancel, 6B, 5C, 5D, Dash Cancel 5C/6A, JC, ETC. combo more. Is it better to use 6A over 5C now?

C&C most welcome!

Going in after a blocked Dead Spike isn't exactly a bad thing to do, it's more about seeing how your opponent reacts after the blocking, and you adjusting accordingly. I'd use it extremely rarely (if at all) with 6C.

I believe the common thing to do now is 5C > 6A > j.D > j.D > DID. I'm unsure where this stops working in terms of proration, but I'm sure someone will be able to fill in this gap here

Anywho!:

-You're a bit antsy with 5B > 5C > HF. You use it alot in blockstrings and in some cases when you get a 5B > 5C air hit. You don't seem to use your other normals or gatlings all that much. Things like 2B > 5B or 5C > 2C are great strings because they're relatively safe and in the case of 5C > 2C, leave you plus on block.

-I notice you tend to wait for people to tech when they're down. This isn't necessaily a bad thing, but there's also no harm in throwing out a 2B while they're laying there. If they don't tech you can usually do 2B > 5B > 6Aetc... It's free damage and meter for you and puts them straight back into the same situation they were just in. If they do tech, you're still at plus I believe and can throw out a meaty 5B or something.

-Make use of j.C's new hitbox. j.B isn't a bad jump in because of it's active frames, but doesn't cause a whole lot of blockstun, so it can be punished if you were to press a button after someone blocked this.

-Hit confirms. Just work on recognizing when you've hit someone with a 5C while they're in the air or when they're crouching and finish the combo accordingly. This is just something that'll come with time.

Other than that, alot of what you can learn will probably just come from playing the game more. You've got the right idea with assessing you're own videos and being able to recognise your own mistakes, so just keep at it dude.

[Tong]

Is it better to use 6A over 5C now?

Only when 5C (JC) j.C fails due to proration.

6A gives you more time to hit with j.C due to better untechable, but is prorates badly, so you shouldn't use it on better combos.

[Zeron_X25]

it's really not

Trying hard to burst my bubble. It's not working.

[Goukitech]

@ -Seo

Thanks for all the tips!

Yeah, I guess i have to start mixing things up as you say, the Air hit thing is something i need to work on, need to start using 5b, 5c, 5D, Dash Cancel, 5C etc. i suppose? I'll have to experiement with this as i have noticed im losing a lot of damage because of it. I've heard 5c, 2c and 5c, 3c are good for + on block, i need to start using 3C in combo strings before HF too as that provides the best oki i believe.

About ground techs... I didn't really think of that, ill have t bare this in mind, maybe has some training mode where ground recovery is off to see what I can get combo wise of someone who's hesitant to tech, thanks!

I suppose i am overusing j.B, the Ragna's i've faced seem to use j.C a lot more and there has been times ill get counter hit after a j.B so as you say, j.C is better.

I do have to get used to hit confirms of a crouching opponent so i can lead into a 6C, I agree, ties in with the point of me needing to learn the midscreen 6C followups too!

@Tong

Thanks for the info about 5C/6A, I guess it'll just take some trial and error and then practice in training mode

[KayEff]

Trying hard to burst my bubble. It's not working.

bubble or not that's still by far the shittiest way to go into crossup divider

[Sadeyo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv27HTkJwgI&feature=channel_video_title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORed_V_s4lA&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNSSuI5QAdw&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlmjVW21QAQ&feature=channel

I will admit that Ragna is strong in this iteration but here's me playing the character some in rank. I don't know the character and just winging it out with basic knowledge of the character, its basically all you really need. The videos turned out well in my opinion but if I was going to ask for any help could someone look at the gold burst combo against the Valkenhayn and tell me if that's possible?

Feel free to critique the others or just sit back and enjoy the watch.

EDIT-Since I have a general idea of the character I don't mind critiquing other Ragna players who wants the help. To me Ragna at this stage is just someone to fool around with instead of taking very seriously.

[Janiekenzu]

Sadeyo, you need to work on hit-confirming. <- relius match

Your spacing needs work.

I don't know why you give up 22c oki after 3c but I guess you are fooling around.

Also, I saw you attempt a 6b meaty, when your opponent is on the ground just wait for the flash and then do it, unless you were trying to OTG punish then that is cool.

Ragna Vs Rachel

when you land a midscreen 6b, most of the time you can get 22c oki in the corner by using --> 6b 5c 6c DC 6b 5c 5d DC 5c 6a HJC j.5d JC j.5d BE 66 5d 22c

Again your spacing is all off, using 5b in 2a range :/ and you got beat.

whatever reason you like to end your air combos with c.id

D.id reaches further and gives HP back, but i guess you are fooling around.

Your neutral game is very weak. Try staying on the ground a little more.

Also at the end you got hit by the frog, learn to block :3c

[Gramas]

The forum is kinda quiet these days ._.

it was day1 for me so some combos were off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36t7G3P9PiI&feature=channel

[IgTerminals]

Ok, Im as embarrassed as hell to ask this.

But.

I've been playing Ragna for a while now. Ever so slowly getting better with him.

There is one embarrassingly simple thing I cannot do with him, though, and I think I need some explanation on the timing.

I cannot seem to follow up a corner ID with 44>3C>22C without it blue beating. I can do a standing 3C>22C. But after ID I cannot get the 3C to connect.

I know this seems like a really stupid question, but I've just spent another half hour in training trying to get this down and I just can't get it to work.

I would be really grateful if someone could explain the timing to me.

And please use small words, cos I'm obviously a moron. :-(

[Gramas]

I dont know,its just timing...maybe its one of those things that actualy need a little bit of execution with this char...lol

[Zeron_X25]

Can someone please tell me what the optimal combos are? I only go for combos that I remember from Japanese matches. Please point out to me what I should be doing instead cause I'm sure I'm missing out on the good combos. For example, I'm not exactly sure when to do 6B in combos because they sometimes tech out. It's proration but I don't know when the combo becomes too prorated/when I should stop my combos. I don't have any CSE footage of me though except Star's stream. If you're willing to ignore the fact that my opponent is star then:

http://www.twitch.tv/starsickle/b/311893667

Ragna starts at 1:28:15

[SolheartStud]

Ok, Im as embarrassed as hell to ask this.

But.

I've been playing Ragna for a while now. Ever so slowly getting better with him.

There is one embarrassingly simple thing I cannot do with him, though, and I think I need some explanation on the timing.

I cannot seem to follow up a corner ID with 44>3C>22C without it blue beating. I can do a standing 3C>22C. But after ID I cannot get the 3C to connect.

I know this seems like a really stupid question, but I've just spent another half hour in training trying to get this down and I just can't get it to work.

I would be really grateful if someone could explain the timing to me.

And please use small words, cos I'm obviously a moron. :-(

Don't be embarrassed, this is pretty difficult until you and your hands get the timing right. The best advice I can give you is to input 44>3C right after you make your opponent bounce off the wall from follow-up 236C. It could be me, but there's a bit of difference in the timing whether you used Inferno Divider C or D but I could be wrong about that.

Try also practicing just doing the Inferno Divider into 44>3C part in the corner. Keep in mind you have to do 44>3C rather quickly as well so practice just doing that if you find that being the hardest part of the combo. Hope that advice helps you out!

[Tong]

Can someone please tell me what the optimal combos are? I only go for combos that I remember from Japanese matches. Please point out to me what I should be doing instead cause I'm sure I'm missing out on the good combos. For example, I'm not exactly sure when to do 6B in combos because they sometimes tech out. It's proration but I don't know when the combo becomes too prorated/when I should stop my combos. I don't have any CSE footage of me though except Star's stream. If you're willing to ignore the fact that my opponent is star then:

http://www.twitch.tv/starsickle/b/311893667

Ragna starts at 1:28:15

When in doubt, don't go for 6B.

Usually, 6B is possible after Berial and 6C. Generally speaking, it won't work if in a combo you Deadspike first and do shittons of air moves (j.CDCD)

[KayEff]

1:28:40 when you got the 5B aerial hit near the corner and confirmed off of 5C. you actually have two choices.

* 5B - 5C - hjc j.C - j.D - jc j.C - j.214C - 6B - 5C - 5D(1) - 214D - dash 2C - 5D - divider stuff

* 5B - 5C - 5D - dc (dash) 5C - 5D(1) - 214D - delay 5C - hjc j.C - j.D - jc j.C - j.D - j.214C - 5D - hell's fang stuff

if you're baller, you can do

* 5B - 5C - 5D(1) - 214D - 5C - hjc j.C - j.D - j.214C - 6B - 5C - 5D - divider stuff (assuming 5D(1) - 214D works)

1:28:53 during your GH combo. it was optimal for the most part (although i would have used 5C after GH instead of j.D but whatever). after belial edge, you could have done 6B - 5C - 5D instead of just 5D. gets you more heat and damage.

1:29:19 now this part isn't particularly for combos, but rather a tip. if you're set on using 5D - 623C, then you shouldn't dash before the 5D; you'd want only the second hit of C inferno divider to hit the opponent, which in turn lets you perform CU 3C more easily.

1:29:34 after confirming hell's fang into dead spike and after belial edge, you probably could have done 6B - 2C - 5D. don't quote me on that, since i'm not sure that works. and you could have ended in CU 3C instead of axe kick. straight punch's untechable is pretty lenient when it comes to performing CU 3C (except for tager)

1:29:44

why did you perform crossup divider

in the corner

that doesn't cross up

[Zeron_X25]

1:28:40 when you got the 5B aerial hit near the corner and confirmed off of 5C. you actually have two choices.

* 5B - 5C - hjc j.C - j.D - jc j.C - j.214C - 6B - 5C - 5D(1) - 214D - dash 2C - 5D - divider stuff

* 5B - 5C - 5D - dc (dash) 5C - 5D(1) - 214D - delay 5C - hjc j.C - j.D - jc j.C - j.D - j.214C - 5D - hell's fang stuff

if you're baller, you can do

* 5B - 5C - 5D(1) - 214D - 5C - hjc j.C - j.D - j.214C - 6B - 5C - 5D - divider stuff (assuming 5D(1) - 214D works)

1:28:53 during your GH combo. it was optimal for the most part (although i would have used 5C after GH instead of j.D but whatever). after belial edge, you could have done 6B - 5C - 5D instead of just 5D. gets you more heat and damage.

1:29:19 now this part isn't particularly for combos, but rather a tip. if you're set on using 5D - 623C, then you shouldn't dash before the 5D; you'd want only the second hit of C inferno divider to hit the opponent, which in turn lets you perform CU 3C more easily.

1:29:34 after confirming hell's fang into dead spike and after belial edge, you probably could have done 6B - 2C - 5D. don't quote me on that, since i'm not sure that works. and you could have ended in CU 3C instead of axe kick. straight punch's untechable is pretty lenient when it comes to performing CU 3C (except for tager)

1:29:44

why did you perform crossup divider

in the corner

that doesn't cross up

1) Ahh ok thanks a lot. I wanted to do the second combo you mentioned but as I've said, I wasn't sure if 6B would be possible from it and I thought doing that combo let's me add in a 6B but I think I was wrong since he teched. I still don't know why some people prefer 5C > 6A > jc j.D > etc. over 5C > jc j.C > etc. Is there some sort of benefit or is it just taste?

2) I'll keep that in mind. I mostly just wanted to end the match cause I was scared of dropping 6B cause of the lag spikes. But yeah I did not know you could do that. I do GH > RC > j.D because tbh it feels more fun and if they block, I get an extra overhead which is nice. I had been doing GH > RC > 5C up until a couple days ago actually. Is there some sort of difference? I saw Yutta doing the j.D one and that's why I adopted it.

3) For some reason I remembered from some matches that dashing gives you 2 hits sometimes. I'm pretty sure about this. I obviously applied it wrong but still.

4) 6B after so many hits was really sketchy so I decided not to gamble with it. I'll go in training mode and see if you're right.

5) Just to troll him. I know it doesn't cross up. lol

Also any advice on other combos for example the one at 1:37:58

[Tong]

should've done:

j.B(didnt connect) 5B 5C 3C DID (CU) 2C 5D(1) 214D dash 5C 6A (HJC) j.C j.D (JC) j.D j.214C dash 5D 22C

1:38:21

mistimed 6B btw, it works there I think.

[KayEff]

I still don't know why some people prefer 5C > 6A > jc j.D > etc. over 5C > jc j.C > etc. Is there some sort of benefit or is it just taste?

if the proration's low enough, 5C - hjc j.C won't work.

I had been doing GH > RC > 5C up until a couple days ago actually. Is there some sort of difference? I saw Yutta doing the j.D one and that's why I adopted it.

there's nothing wrong with that, but i find that landing after GH provides slightly better mixup. up to you though.

Also any advice on other combos for example the one at 1:37:58

the optimal combo would be:

5B - 5C - 3C - 623D(1) - 236C - 236C - CU 5C - 5D(1) - 214D - 5C - 6A - hjc j.C - j.D - jc j.D - j.214C - 5D - hell's fang stuff

or if you can't get 623D(1):

5B - 5C - 3C - 623D - 236C - 236C - CU 2C - 5D - 214D - dash 6A - jc j.D - jc j.D - j.214C - 5D - hell's fang stuff

tong's version of that combo is a little risky since getting 214D after 5D(1) in that situation's a little tricky (if at all possible)

[IgTerminals]

@ SolheartStud - Thanks for the tips dude. I'll keep at it.