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Nerk

Defending against Sol

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A good defense against Bandit Bringer is to air block (or air instant block it) and then throw or punish on landing (becomes -4 due to landing recovery). Risk here is that Sol can YRC and throw, but it's a good option to keep in mind.

A well timed GF YRC mixup with 2K cannot be interrupted on IB, I think only Venom (with his fast wakeup speed) can do that even in a perfect setup.

Except for that, this is a nice summary. I think it's missing avoiding tick throw setups (after 2P, 2K or 2S for example), Blitz Shielding/backdashing safe jumps and 6P frametraps. Good job anyway!

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Yeah I was a bit unsure about the GF YRC empty 2k, wakeup timing as a variable as well as the fact that not all backdashes are created equal. I'll rework that.

 

I chose not to include tick throw / frame trap setups because there are so many of them, it's mostly about reads, and there's no universal option you can counter with on reaction. You can IB and then interrupt stuff like 2p -> wild throw, but I don't like to recommend that when the Sol player can just time his frametraps earlier to beat it with a good read. With stuff like fafnir, revolver and bringer there are universal, reactable solutions. Blitzing and backdashing straight meaties was not included for similar reasons, and I guess the video assumes you're already blocking in the corner, but I might include the safejump countermeasures when I rework it since it's so common.

Thanks.

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A good defense against Bandit Bringer is to air block (or air instant block it) and then throw or punish on landing (becomes -4 due to landing recovery). Risk here is that Sol can YRC and throw, but it's a good option to keep in mind.

A well timed GF YRC mixup with 2K cannot be interrupted on IB, I think only Venom (with his fast wakeup speed) can do that even in a perfect setup.

Except for that, this is a nice summary. I think it's missing avoiding tick throw setups (after 2P, 2K or 2S for example), Blitz Shielding/backdashing safe jumps and 6P frametraps. Good job anyway!

That is not really true, if you see a BB using any move that produces a strong CH state is the best way to punish. These moves include (but are not limited to) Sol's HVV, Ky's 6P, Elphelt's 6H, etc. And you do that for the simple reason that they open up 200+ damage combos. The advantage here is also that you can launch these moves after the YRC point causing a PRC if he attempts to bait your AA late which will probably result in him getting hit anyway. Doing the jump IG throw thing will usually work, it's just not as profitable.

 

About the video, calling it a 'how to defend' video isn't really accurate. Most of the options revealed show a strong sense of desperation from the defender's side while the situation isn't all that dire. The simplest thing you're not applying is faultless guard that cuts Sol's strings in half and would make sure the BR in the examples would whiff. His safe stringing ability is also limited, at some point he will be forced to make an unsafe choice. Unsafe as in stuffable unsafe or punishable unsafe. As long as your defense is good and you remain patient enough, he will eventually be forced to open up or let the game return to neutral.

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That is not really true, if you see a BB using any move that produces a strong CH state is the best way to punish. These moves include (but are not limited to) Sol's HVV, Ky's 6P, Elphelt's 6H, etc. And you do that for the simple reason that they open up 200+ damage combos. The advantage here is also that you can launch these moves after the YRC point causing a PRC if he attempts to bait your AA late which will probably result in him getting hit anyway. Doing the jump IG throw thing will usually work, it's just not as profitable.

 

 

Actually, these options have a strong tendency to clash with BB or be beaten outright. "Any move" is very wrong and very dangerous general advice to give.

 

About the video, calling it a 'how to defend' video isn't really accurate. Most of the options revealed show a strong sense of desperation from the defender's side while the situation isn't all that dire.

 

I strongly disagree with you. I don't think encouraging people to instant block moves that are plus on block in order to make them advantageous to the defender qualifies as a "strong sense of desperation" at all. Blitz shield and reversals maybe, which is why they are highlighted yellow, but the point is to lay the options on the table so people know their options, and how to deny Sol his advantages. I pointed out places where there are inherent gaps to interrupt him, or where gaps can be created with a simple IB. A lot of people don't know this stuff.

 

 

The simplest thing you're not applying is faultless guard that cuts Sol's strings in half and would make sure the BR in the examples would whiff.

 

I did include faultless defense. Made a real point of it in fact. It's in there, watch the video.

 

 

His safe stringing ability is also limited, at some point he will be forced to make an unsafe choice. Unsafe as in stuffable unsafe or punishable unsafe.

 

Yeah, and I pointed out where those unsafe spots are and options on how to capitalize. What's the problem?

 

As long as your defense is good and you remain patient enough, he will eventually be forced to open up or let the game return to neutral.

 

Sol is a bully character, he thrives on his opponents being patient and not seizing the opportunities given to them. If people don't know where the gaps are and how to capitalize on the nature of his pressure (him being "forced to open up"), then they wind up blocking for too long, which gets their guard bar cranked up or they just get wild thrown. I see it happen all the time. It's why I made this.

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I thought it was a great video that helped explain a lot of things for newer people, nice work.  I totally show this to my friend who has trouble with my sol.

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Actually, these options have a strong tendency to clash with BB or be beaten outright. "Any move" is very wrong and very dangerous general advice to give.

In my experience they don't. Be sure to launch your move at the YRC point if it's unsafe (as YRC will jam the input for you) or before the YRC point if it has a slow start up but is safe(he has to FD in the air anyway). I specified high level move that causes a CH state, I don't know the listing for every character but I'm sure the players in their respective forums do. BB is and always has been hard counterable by a lot of cast members throughout the series. It's one of the reasons why this move doesn't really see a lot of action outside of combos.

 

I strongly disagree with you. I don't think encouraging people to instant block moves that are plus on block in order to make them advantageous to the defender qualifies as a "strong sense of desperation" at all. Blitz shield and reversals maybe, which is why they are highlighted yellow, but the point is to lay the options on the table so people know their options, and how to deny Sol his advantages. I pointed out places where there are inherent gaps to interrupt him, or where gaps can be created with a simple IB. A lot of people don't know this stuff.

Interrupting Sol allows him to set up frametraps that are really retarded but will hit you because you're pushing buttons. I'm not just talking about the occasional VV RC that may show up, I'm talking 2P GF or 5S GF or anything of that sort. I'm not saying you should never interrupt, heck I do it because I'm really lazy and usually cannot be bothered to defend properly. But if it really matters I will be forced to sit it out just like everyone else. Teaching players how to get back to neutral state safely is far more important than how to turn a defense into an offense (in my opinion).

 

I did include faultless defense. Made a real point of it in fact. It's in there, watch the video.

I watched the video and apparently I missed it. I therefore believe you didn't make enough of a real point out of it :P

Yeah, and I pointed out where those unsafe spots are and options on how to capitalize. What's the problem?

Your vid is spamming different strings with different responses, it's going to take new players quite some time to recognize the actual situation being displayed so they can apply it in their games. If you'd for example show strings, show which ones are too long for FD, where the decision points are for Sol on how he continues his offense (unsafely) and then showing the counters to his choices would make for a much shorter video and would improve the understanding newer players would get from it.

Sol is a bully character, he thrives on his opponents being patient and not seizing the opportunities given to them. If people don't know where the gaps are and how to capitalize on the nature of his pressure (him being "forced to open up"), then they wind up blocking for too long, which gets their guard bar cranked up or they just get wild thrown. I see it happen all the time. It's why I made this.

No he doesn't. *grabs really old video* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYWc58xzCSI it's from Accident Core, nonetheless it shows one player being really patient and just picking Sol apart as he goes. And this style of play is really strong against Sol. Look also how he barely interrupts anything yet finds himself in neutral very quickly where he starts moving around again. The way he played also reduced Sol's abare significantly as it still does in this game (though the 5H RC BB compensates for that rather well now). If anything, when you watch modern footage of any good Sol, you will see that these players spend a lot of their time in the neutral game trying to find an opening to attack (and preferably immediately succeed in dealing damage) and they are doing this for earlier mentioned reasons.

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This is a good repository of various way to counter some of Sol's predictable strings, but unfortunately getting out of Sol's pressure isn't as simple as recognizing a pattern and applying a recommended solution. If you get too specific, you're never going to be able to keep track of it all in a real match, and you'll be lost if Sol throws you a curve ball. A good general defense is often a simple one, and that primarily comes down to spacing (which FD helps with), good blocking (especially instant blocking to gain frame advantage), and picking good times to get out, usually with FD jump (but sometimes with poke if the situation calls for it). Reversals should be used sparingly, and specific punishes are most typically applied if the Sol player is being predictable (ending everything with Bandit Revolver, for example). Specific punishes are certainly good to know, but they generally don't form the core of a defensive game plan.

Also, you missed some important options. Some examples were not talking about the 6P + H option select against Sol's airdash mixup, not mentioning that if you IB bandit revolver while standing and throw it then you're safe to VV afterward (assuming you timed it correctly), and not considering how to deal with f.S pressure. I didn't see you talk about Wild Throw setups either (did I miss it?), which is a huge oversight. Sol is a mixup character, and his primary mixup is Wild Throw. His game plan isn't to build your guard gauge and then kill you, it's to get you to respect him and then Wild Throw you, and then to get you to try to disrespect Wild Throw and punish you for disrespecting him.

That KZO video is old school, but I don't think it's a great example of how to get out of Sol's pressure. KZO was heavily reliant on DPs, many of which were extremely risky.

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I dont know if, even if you covered those, could fully say how to defend against Sol. The roster may be smaller than the past GG's, but there's still a lot of character specific defenses in this game, some even just take into consideration the size of the character. Like how as Bedman I can do forward dash vs BB or BR as a kinda OS sine if its BR, I get the GP and if its BB, I just dash under him

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That KZO video is old school, but I don't think it's a great example of how to get out of Sol's pressure. KZO was heavily reliant on DPs, many of which were extremely risky.

Extremely old school, but you can see very clearly how he repeatedly gets out of Sol's offense without actually pushing any buttons. And no, KZO isn't heavily reliant on DPs, leave that stuff to Kusoru:P KZO was one of the more solid Order Sol players that has made it to SBO and at least got past round 1 before the others followed suit. I can explain why dragonpunches are an extremely powerful tool to use in active defense, but it's beyond the scope of this thread.

 

 

I dont know if, even if you covered those, could fully say how to defend against Sol. The roster may be smaller than the past GG's, but there's still a lot of character specific defenses in this game, some even just take into consideration the size of the character. Like how as Bedman I can do forward dash vs BB or BR as a kinda OS sine if its BR, I get the GP and if its BB, I just dash under him

 

Yes, there are a lot of character specific defenses, but those should be part of those characters' forums. This should be generic defense tools.

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The advantage here is also that you can launch these moves after the YRC point causing a PRC if he attempts to bait your AA late which will probably result in him getting hit anyway.

 

BB has a very late YRC point, deep into active frames. I don't have the exact numbers, but you can easily YRC it so late that anything in range would get hit by then.

 

 

I'm talking 2P GF or 5S GF or anything of that sort. I'm not saying you should never interrupt

 

That's a non-issue, GF now disappears before the 2nd flame pillar happens.

Let's be honest, this video does not teach how to defend from Sol as an entire concept (that is always very matchup specific), but simply outlines ways to punish certain approaches. If there is anything this video does right that is very useful, it's showing what NOT to do. Sure, there's more to defending than just punishing and interrupting, but being able to react to certain scenarios is at the very basic of ever learning to defend well. Of course better players will often mix things up and make it harder to rely on known punishes, but against characters like Sol you really want to MAKE an opening, not wait there for one (getting hit by a WT combo while having even the least bit of RISC built up is NOT what you want to do). With options like GF YRC or Fafnir YRC Sol can reset his pressure ad infinitum, or at least until his meter runs out. It certainly doesn't hurt to capitalize on every single opening, which there are plenty in almost every option.

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I think some people are forgetting that Xrd Sol is a different beast from previous incarnations. Consider that blocking a single Fafnir jacks the RISC gauge to such a degree that his corner Fafnir combo goes from doing 170-180 damage to about 230 damage. Two blocked Fafnirs sets the RISC gauge to flashing, which suddenly makes his frame traps far more potent. More so than before, you have to be fairly proactive about trying to stop Sol's offense before it gets started, or else you may suddenly find yourself losing without knowing what really happened.

 

Naturally, it is not possible to fully uncork the solution to Sol's offense in a single video that is this simple, else he would not be a top tier character. But it's a good start for those who are learning the matchup from scratch.

 

I wouldn't take any of reaVer's KZO hype seriously.

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Right... Those that fall behind will stay behind. If you wish to be disrespectful towards me that's fine, you can play your style dated in 2005.

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*sigh* Says the guy who's been saying the same thing since 2007. You're willing to take videos of a small sample of play from one player in a nation where countless matches are being played, and the guy isn't even the top player of the character or game in question, and try to distill that down into viable play advice. Nevermind that this is in a different game against a vastly inferior version of the character we're talking about in this topic.

 

You always do this, dude. You come out of hibernation every few months or so and say the same thing you've been saying for years, and then accuse others of playing dated styles and falling behind? Get out of here with that.

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Of course this video isn't exhaustive, it's short, it covers a lot of the lower level abusable sol stuff so newer players don't fall into the sol scrub trap.  I would say it does what it sets out to do quite well

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Couldn't escape Sol corner pressure much last weekend when it came up, despite trying to do the things in the video.  Guess my timing was off & I'll try again.  Best success came with FD or DA if I had meter.  I tend to get hit out of everything else.

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Couldn't escape Sol corner pressure much last weekend when it came up, despite trying to do the things in the video.  Guess my timing was off & I'll try again.  Best success came with FD or DA if I had meter.  I tend to get hit out of everything else.

Have you tried backdashing and backward jumps?

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Not doing any of these block strings it what we call "clean play"

 

people tend to do this reckless stuff is due the high reward if it hits.

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