[CT] Ragna vs Noel

[Tarnish]

Need help on this match up, and it is not being played online so no "online strategies" please. So far I'm at a loss as to how to approach Noel, and I'm just throwing out brainless offense at Matt Coma's Noel hoping I can get an opening into something. I tend to end up having Noel try to cross me up for free, while I maybe throw out 5A and hope to just knock her out of the air, no clue what I get out of it. Also dealing with a bootleg tactic of Noel's stand jab xN, run up, stand jab xN. 5 frame jab, +3 on block, I don't see many Japanese players doing this so I'm assuming that there's a window where Ragna can 5A to stop her from dashing in again, but I haven't had the chance to try it out and I'm still sketchy about it. Eventually it came down to me doing something and being immediately read with some stupid drive counter since I was tunnel visioned and extremely annoyed. How is this match fought?

[Prototype909]

I'd also like to know how this match is fought. Noel's sliding kick goes right under 5C and 5B, so you can't even poke her from afar. That and if she lands just one damn drive combo 1/4 of your health is gone.

[Tarnish]

Sliding Kick is unsafe on block and 5C can beat it as long as you predict the sliding kick. She needs meter to make it safe. If you block the slide, just come out of block stun with 5C into combo of your choice.

[WUT]

You just answered it yourself: If anyone is pressuring jabs, just Barrier Guard them away and jump/counterpoke. Just be ready to throw break and you should be good to go.

[Tarnish]

What I want to understand about barrier guard is whether or not I'm in double the block stun. +3 on block isn't exactly giving me a huge window of opportunity to jump out, because Noel can just as easily dash in and hold you in the air with her jabs and then perform her loop (twirling guns have to be blocked with barrier in the air) as soon as you're near guard crush and barrier is expended. Describe the situation if you've tested it, I could do without paper theory.

[Sarsapari]

Zone with jump C but don't go too deep with it or else she's punish with either 6a or early jA. On hit do anything you want to to her. Also 5C at max range is very good zoning against Noel.

[kensk]

mash inferno divider

[WUT]

Barrier Guard only adds +1 to guard stun. +4 after pushing her out of 5A range is quite an acceptable window to escape. Yes, I've tried it. And yes, it worked against Matt (and will work against every other Noel that's pressuring 5A and not committing themselves to keeping you on the ground, something 5A pressure alone can't accomplish). And please don't make assumptions as to whether someone is theory fighting a response or not; it's condescending.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Barrier Guard only adds +1 to guard stun.

That's fucking terrible. Major sad face.

[WUT]

Terrible for offense. There's no reason for you not to Barrier Guard in this game. Just stop when you almost run out to avoid DANGER status.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

That's pretty much where I was going. For a game that seems so centered on aggression, they sure do hate the idea of making someone block for more than half a second at a time. Unless you play one of the top 3, that is.[/offtopic] Soooooo yeah, Noel. ID that bitch.

[Tarnish]

And please don't make assumptions as to whether someone is theory fighting a response or not; it's condescending.

It wasn't meant to be condescending. I have used barrier guard and tried to backdash only for Ragna's shitty backdash to get caught by a jab and have the Noel player start doing a loop on me in the air for 40-60% of my life. So I wanted to understand what was going on in detail. I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but I just didn't come here to get the usual "Oh do this" and walk away with the same understanding of the situation as I initially had, because I had no fucking clue what I was doing wrong in relation to the player, and it was causing every other part of my game in that match up to suffer.

I already talked it over last night with a few other players at a session here, but it's good to see a general consensus. I appreciate the help.

[Xtra_Zero]

Ok, I've been saying this for over a year now, but every time I play against Noel I see it happen again and again and AGAIN. Some parts of Noel's Chain Revolver have invincibility! If you IB a hit and then ID her, there's a chance you'll go STRAIGHT THROUGH HER and then proceed to die. VS Ragna isn't the only time I've seen it. I've also seen some of Rachel's moves go straight through her stupid green-glowing ass as well. Does anyone know WHICH drive moves have invulnerability and at what points?

[Tsak]

except i dunno why you want to ID when you could just IB 2A/5A HF combo which will actually work or if you feeling manly 6A CH combo

[Prototype909]

Ok, I am getting my ass majorly raped by good Noels. Not the Noels who randomly toss out a drive, but the ones who actually know how to combo into it and get me into 1/3 health combos. Not too fun. Anyone got any tips?

[Tarnish]

Apparently barrier guard and suck Japanese sausage about this being an even match up or in Ragna's favor.

[Siefer]

Ok, I am getting my ass majorly raped by good Noels. Not the Noels who randomly toss out a drive, but the ones who actually know how to combo into it and get me into 1/3 health combos. Not too fun. Anyone got any tips?

Learn to block (easier said than done). Her slide is punishable, her 2C is not. You're not going to beat her in the air, don't even bother. 6A isn't bad. Be careful with random pokes, she has a lot of moves with high invincibility that lead into massive damage combos. Keep her out of your face with barrier guards. That's all you can really do. Oh, ID is good.

[Tage*Proto]

Come on y'all, lets be a bit more constructive, your proving the stereotype that ragna players are....well..you know lol. I play against Noel pretty frequently, and i'm not going to lie, the fight is fucking hard. And yes, Noel's drive moves do have invincibility, but it depends on the drive, as some have upper or lower body invinicibility. Basically, there are a few points during her pressure you need to watch for to escape. Optic Barrel: IF a drive string is cancelled to optic barrel, depending on distance, you can either straight run past that shit, or try and hells fang through it, which will be a counter hit. Risky, but it takes away Noel's only true safe way of ending her drive chains. BAIT THAT 6A. Seriously, this bitch's antiair is so stupid good, only choice is to bait it since you will eventually be forced into the air at some point, which is fine, because your j.c is awesome. You absolutely have to be wary of this move at all times. Work on spotting Noel's 2d during the startup frames. I am so serious with this one. THis move is a overhead that jumps over lows, and will really ruin ragna's stuff. If you can spot it's startup animation, you can either uppercut on reaction, or i've even been able to 6a. Punish 3c. Man this move is so terrible without RC. Ragna gets 5c punishment combos all day long. Also if your spacing is correct, 2b will actually stuff it. THis matchup is all about ragna being able to interrupt noel and turn the momentum to his favor. If you let her just continuously run you down, ragna just doesn't have the tools to pull it out. Be patient, use your range and pokes intelligently, uppercut the false gaps and drives with slow startup, and get knockdowns. Noel can't really do anything if ragna is constantly pushing her to the corner, so recognize when to keep the pressure going, but keep it safe at the same time. Hope that helped.

[Zeromegaman]

ID is your best friend against Noel. Anything she throws you can just ID right out of it, trick is not to get spammy with it, gotta throw a few mix ups, once Chain Drive is activated, ID that bitch. And keep some distance if ID doesn't work, HF puts her in her place. Patience and reaction is key against a Noel player.

[Atuin]

BAIT THAT 6A. Seriously, this bitch's antiair is so stupid good, ...

jin's got good anti-air too...

makes you wonder what they were teaching em at the academy.

*imagines Jin and Noel shooting skeet all day long*

hahaha... and then they would shoot down a plane on accident.

Some noel players (noobs) can be baited into using an optic barrel if you put some distance between the two of you, this tends to be a good trap for landing a HF or Carnage scissor from the right distance. kind of lame, but its a good way to make new noel players try to actually learn how to treat her right.

[arknodem]

=o_o= I'll be blunt, Ragna is a hard match up for me as a Noel player. I find that the 214A move (forgot the name) is an awesome combo starter against me. Since aparently, once I get hit, I'm down for about a 50% combo. Then again, I was playing against JC (Griever)'s Ragna and it was tearing me up. SOOOO~ I'll put this out there now. Since it seems a lot of ya'll have a hard time against pressure Noel (well... thats the only successful Noel anyways...so far...) and I'm having a hard time against Ragna, I'm down for some Noel vs Ragna training. Now I won't say I'm the best or nothin' but hey, it could help.

[andianqz]

As a noel player gotta say the biggest threat is ID. Don't spend too much time in the air, noel's 6A will rofl you. your ID and 6A are a good counter to noel in the air as well though. On the ground.. no one really starts with 3C.. unless he's a mile away and expects your 214A. Try to zone with your Bs and Cs and stay at arms length.. don't get too close cuz noel's 5A is super crazy fast and leads into big combos. swing those Bs and Cs and make me rush in and ID me into a combo. Once you land a combo try to rush me down, but watch out for j.D .. i'll be trying to jump block and go into a j.D which leads to a knock down.. and me rushing you down which very devastating.

[boringperson]

I would say based on the Noel's that I've played that spacing is really important in this match up. I usually try to maintain about 1 character distance from Noel so that I could counter hit her drive start up and 3C with my D and land a big combo afterward. Oh and no spamming 214D since she'll probably either be below you or invincible at the time. However I'm only a lv 30 Ragna soo I don't know how valid my statement exactly is...altho its worked for me so far..

[iAnimate]

One time I was playing a good Noel player tried to get me with 3C a bunch in a row and I was surprised that I kept countering it with 2B. So I'm starting to use 2B rather than 5B against Noel and it's been more successful. But since I'm not used starting off that way I end up not following it up :/

[E For Eugene]

Noel's 5D and 6D. I'm pretty sure has invincibility.