[Xrd 1.1] Ramlethal Gameplay Discussion Thread

[Syklone]

Since Ramlethal is so different(crippled) in 1.1, and the original thread is so crowded. Let's bring all the new information over here!

 

Drop a playlist of some 1.1 and 1.1 related videos. I'll always be adding new videos to it as well. But try to post them in the video thread and not here!

 

 

New stuff: J.6S oki after KK4K ender in the coner. Many thanks to Maadhum for making the vids. Note: these are in wedm format

Cross up: https://d.maxfile.ro/lkrxyonxuj.webm

Fake Cross up: https://d.maxfile.ro/zirthhmhgo.webm

 

Edit: Playlist has been updated 7/27/2015

[Complexity]

I'll be making a vid of the cheese later. Probably.

[Nyaa]

Are all the Ram-players ready to be less happy about Ram than they already are??

 

So I've seen from some japanese players that if they have 1 sword out and get a corner combo they like to end with PPP > cSfS > 4S/H > 2D > 6H for a meaty setup, right?

 

At least against Sol 2D > 6H is meaty, but apparantly if the combo is long enough, gravity kicks in and 2D knocks down faster, which makes this non-meaty. If the combo is at 8 hits total (with 2D) it's meaty. At 9 hits, it's not. Sol is holding up to jump it hits him airborne instead of on the ground which might screw some stuff up.

 

What a great character. Can't actually even bait bursts either because of Dauro.

[Complexity]

If your opponent up backs your 6h you can probably catch the pre-jump frames with f.s Detruo into stuff.

[zaeris]

It can be tricky but it varies for most character wake up timing. I prefer 4p since I wouldnt know if my opponent is using FD or not. Assuming you're talking about 2d range meaty stuff corner than a dash 4p should work also.

There also 6hs j6s jd land 2d variant that daiji likes to use.

[Syklone]

I like how people just burst the second you hit Daruo. And of course you don't have the meter to cancel it, because lol Ramlethal barely ever gets meter.

Then your just looking for another lucky hit..

Edit:I think we should do less complaining/bitching ( at least here, online vs Venom is okay!) and more labbing and discussion. I think Ramlethal is weak but has some glimmer of hope in her corner setplay. I think the neutral is the main problem, and it's MU specific as to what you can abuse. I also think that in 1.1 sword deployment causes people to move more as we want them to now that they can strike down Lucifero. So my focus in neutral is always try to punish those attempts with things like Cassius, J.p(rip 1.0), J.s(pray for CH), and a balls to the wall 2S sometimes, which almost never works lol.

[zaeris]

I like how people just burst the second you hit Daruo. And of course you don't have the meter to cancel it, because lol Ramlethal barely ever gets meter.

Then your just looking for another lucky hit...

Its all part of the game abuse the stuff that hurts ramlethal the most. Lol, I swear most of daiji loses comes from having less tension where players just runs at him with 100meter and turns the game already while he has little to barrier or god forbidden enough to dead angle. And sword delays are so good at stop stopping ramlethal momemtum I encourage everyone against ramlethal to dead angle at the right time and score.

Or better yet attempts to win with superior AA so ram needs to burn meter to FD.

[Citadel19]

I've only been playing Ramlethal for a little bit of time, so I'm no expert by far, and only recently has Guilty Gear made sense to me as a player who is trying to get better at the game. (Mostly play Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat) But I do agree with some of the stuff that is on here. I think that a lot of wins that we Ram's get are hard fought over. I sense that I have to work a lot harder at getting a win than other characters in the game. With that said though, it does come down to the neutral game and knowing your MU. I like the Youtube videos I have found where players are using Ram and doing well but I see Daiji lose more than win. He does all of this work with Ram, and then something silly happens and the momentum swings to the other side. 

I don't seem to have the problem of not having enough meter, but that is probably because I abuse S and HS when they are equipped to me and I foolishly rush down (Still learning the MU's). I mostly keep my swords equipped until I can get my opponent into the corner. But if in neutral and if I deploy its usually only HS and its usually if the opponent is full screen. 2S I typically use for meaty wake up situations and I try to position myself where the tip of my sword would hit them, if HS is equipped, I go straight into 2HS after the 2S. If HS is not equipped, I'll try to link into 5D to get myself at -13 instead of -41. But yeah that's probably why I don't have as much of an issue with meter. Oh and I'm fishing a lot with my f5S for CH>Dauro. I don't get a lot of CH and I end up in their face because I'm buffering into Dauro, again not the wisest move though. 

But yeah this comes from just being overly aggressive and not very wise decisions on when to go in and that is mostly rooted in unfamiliarity with the MU's. Hopefully some of that is helpful. I want to contribute and learn as much as I can cause I do want to get better. (And not get beat by Online Sol's as much.........)

[TheArm05]

Autopiloting fS > Dauro will get you punished vs experienced players since quite a few characters can punish Dauro (even green) on instant block.  Elph can IB 5p punish, Pot can IB pot buster etc.  Once you fight a player who can do this consistently it will discourage this tactic quite a bit as you will just start giving them free hits.

 

2s is best used as a preemptive anti air. Again against experienced players a blocked 2s is hanging yourself so it needs to be used sparingly.  2s yrc is extremely good.

 

I agree with most of the posted complaints about new Ram. The 1.1 changes basically boil down to flail wildly when you are against Ram bc you will accidentally kill swords while also putting pressure on her.

I understand they wanted to put counterplay to swords but the way it came out the counterplay is so free that the Ram player has to get extremely good reads to punish. 

 

In 1.0 Ram destroyed people for disrespecting her swords (except for her already bad matchups like Chipp) in 1.1 disrespecting them is absolutely the go to as the payoff for it is usually huge.

[Nyaa]

Every character can punish fS > Dauro by throwing before dauro hits.

[zaeris]

Its also the fact that f.s is deceptively not that far lol. Nyaa did post some hit box. It actually has a range thats is equal to other players far normal so there isn't much an advantage there.

Even better at neutral you can backdash ram f.s make it whiff then run towards ramlethal. It is often the case that players with footise will dance around your f.s range because you really only have two range of contact f.s and 4p both are in your favour but abit outside or inside you lose those advantage easily.

Even quote from ogawa says he prefer shorter combo into kd because it prevents people from building too much meter and burst. For ramlethal however it's kinda hard to shorting your combo without severely reducing damage. And besides zato can absorb most dead angle attempt via eddie while ramlethal needs to bait but even then at some point you can safely dead angle vs her.

And thus, if your opponent manages to escape often the case due to burst and dead angle and a lot of resources to FD. The sword cool down puts you at a disadvantage while your opponent can convert all that tension instead into damage.

So the trade off for shortening combo isnt viable enough. There are systemic issue which is something the players cant avoid.

Having p or k that could gatling into f.s would be godly but playing with her current limitation, there are many inflexibility you just have to live with.

[Complexity]

Every character can punish fS > Dauro by throwing before dauro hits.

 

Honestly I do not recommend doing that because a good Ramlethal player can space the f.s Daruo such that he won't be in throw range. It's how you see all the random Daruo CH-es after f.s sometimes.

[Scrubplayer]

Honestly I do not recommend doing that because a good Ramlethal player can space the f.s Daruo such that he won't be in throw range. It's how you see all the random Daruo CH-es after f.s sometimes.

Yeah, in most cases, it's best to just IB the Dauro and punish with w/e fastest normal you have.

 

Just a question, but what do you guys usually like to do after a blocked f.S? Jump? Deploy a sword? Cancel into Cassius?

[zaeris]

Depends on your opponent if he is just sitting there blocking and testing your pressure throw a bunch of deployed swords and recall. Otherwise if unsure f.s nothing and f.s the answer is what you think your opponent is thinking.

[Nyaa]

fS > 6S > 3K isn't too shabby, can catch someone off guard into a combo and if they block it they're at a disadvantage at least after 6S.

 

If I have meter for a YRC I sometimes like to do fS xx Detruo YRC for a mixup.

[Maadhum]

If I have both swords, 6H is my go to option after blocked f.S. If its already deployed, f.S 4H. Cassius is probably the safest option but I like to cancel into detruo if they're content blocking too much.

 

I've been using f.S 3K a lot lately and it seems pretty solid at the right distances. It doesn't leave you at frame advantage but on block puts you at the distance where most pokes will lose to f.S. 

[TheArm05]

fS deploy is ok until they start just completely disrespecting it. Tho I catch people with fS 6S 3k all the time.

 

The best by faaaar is fS (sword already in position to swing) 6HS.

This lets you run up 4p/cS whatever and often frametraps them if they try to mash.

Similarly the fS j6HS version is good too as you can combo off the sword hit with airdash jk.

 

fS Cassius yrc 6S/6HS is strong for gaining time to set swords up.

 

Honestly it is important to figure out the way your opponent likes to react defensively.

Most of Rams options after blocked fS are easily beaten by iad buttons or good long range pokes. Figure out how they react and adjust accordingly.

[Complexity]

In somewhat order of options I like to do:

 

1) f.s 6h f.s. If they aren't paying attention you can dash and make them block 1 more f.s after they block 6h. That's about 20 meter for free. f.s 4h f.s is a similar concept. Recall the sword later on.

2) f.s jump react with falling j.s should they approach. Safest option and you get away with some meter anyway.

3) f.s Cassius. Mostly safe but there are moves that can wreck it.

4) f.s jump falling j.h. For when you are close enough that j.h hits. It's frame advantage done low enough so if you get away with this you can land and make them block another f.s or do more falling j.h if they are sleeping for lots of meter.

5) f.s nothing f.s. Gets you meter and it works when people are trying to IB Daruo.

6) f.s 3k. I'm pretty sure it's + at max range and it catches people who upback. Probably can throw in another f.s after 3k.

7) f.s IAD j.p j.k. It's actually quite difficult to react with a punish as long as you don't do it all the time.

8) f.s Detruo. Same as IAD j.p j.k except that it's easier to punish and if they IB the last hit of Detruo you might be in some trouble.

9) f.s dash 2s 2h. A bait to catch opponents. The gap between a blocked f.s to 2s is large enough to tempt your opponent into making a move like jumping should your opponent just block all the way.

10) f.s Daruo. You gotta do it sometimes in case they ate f.s CH or crouching.

[zaeris]

Its funny how it boils down to f.s. if ram could gatling into f.s that would solve a lot of issue, including tension.

[Complexity]

But c.s gatlings into f.s....

[zaeris]

I was thinking p and k, unless there was sarcasm somewhere.

[Syklone]

OMG if she could do 2K/5K/4P into f.s it would make me cry tears of joy. I would take any buff they give her, she only needs just a little help.

Does anybody remember what the loketest said about Ram again. What I saw wasn't very clear about her.

[zaeris]

Any mods left that can update this sub forum?

Edit: on another note im surprise you can do so much with throw rc

Throw rc dash 623p pk pk c.s 623p c.s 623p 2ppk 5ppp ectera. Always problem on light going for 2ppk but otherwise works on most.

[Syklone]

What do you want updated? I'll try to do what I can.

[zaeris]

I suppose it be easier to make new thread for 1.1 combo and okizeme, i feel that new players are likely getting obsolete information.