zaeris Report post Posted July 17, 2015 kkk wallbound is applicable when the combo hight allows it and also the numbers of hit before it. I do believe you need a big run up near corner since the delay on kkk is heavy but if kkk hits low enough f.s wallbound should bring them down. however if your aim is multiple jksd you could be face huge push back and tighter links where kkk is unlikely to combo at 7 frames start up. in the end i think its rather just hight adjustment for wallbound extension that is important that makes kkk a good alternative. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheArm05 Report post Posted July 17, 2015 Welp looks like its time to go relearn a bunch of new combos lol. It shouldn't be hard since I don't usually try to do super crazy stuff pre splat. The damage post splat is real tho especially on those combos that splat early. Good stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zaeris Report post Posted July 17, 2015 Im surprise no one talks about tension gain via opponent. Like double dauro combo is extremely terrible for feeding your opponent more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syklone Report post Posted July 17, 2015 Ramlethal gets no fucking meter. She rewards the opponent for simply doing combos. They get burst you get nothing. What a shame Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matic Report post Posted July 20, 2015 Has anyone noticed how much the burst gauge fill from a throw? It's kinda ridiculous Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syklone Report post Posted July 20, 2015 Lmao yes. Because her grab has so many hits she refills burst more than any grab in the game. Remember son, you are playing a bad character. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Putin Report post Posted July 20, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APtb7wDBY3M I was wondering whether this setup is supposed to work like that every time you pull if off correctly, or it's just that one of Sol's DPs doesn't have enough i-frames. I used 623SH here so I don't know which version of VV came out. Basically I want to know if I'm messing up the timing on the setup because I can't seem to reproduce the same result consistently Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zaeris Report post Posted July 20, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APtb7wDBY3M I was wondering whether this setup is supposed to work like that every time you pull if off correctly, or it's just that one of Sol's DPs doesn't have enough i-frames. I used 623SH here so I don't know which version of VV came out. Basically I want to know if I'm messing up the timing on the setup because I can't seem to reproduce the same result consistently Both hs and s version of vv doesnt have much full invul something like 6 and 10 frames after that it moves to strike invul, ramlethal sword count as projectile from that point making it moot. According to old frame data. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Complexity Report post Posted July 21, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APtb7wDBY3M I was wondering whether this setup is supposed to work like that every time you pull if off correctly, or it's just that one of Sol's DPs doesn't have enough i-frames. I used 623SH here so I don't know which version of VV came out. Basically I want to know if I'm messing up the timing on the setup because I can't seem to reproduce the same result consistently If you used 623s+h then SVV will come out because of input priority. Doesn't look like that was SVV to me though. Anyway, VV is not invul to projectiles after leaving the ground so that makes sense because Ramlethal's H sword is already active and therefore trades with the VV. You can see the sword dropping to the floor after CH-ing Sol. What's weird however, is http://puu.sh/j6Ler/6eb4e28ddf.jpg. It looks like a case of swords are eating hits again because Ramlethal already jumped into the VV hitbox and if that really happened she would have at least blocked the VV if it was a safe jump, causing both swords to fall before Sol even gets hit. Startup is not the issue here, because VV is invul until its active frames, so if the H sword can hit Sol out of it, it surely must have reached its active frames already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Putin Report post Posted July 21, 2015 Yeah, what confuses me the most is that it didn't touch Ram at all, not so much that Sol didn't i-frame through the swords. And this setup isn't even a safejump afaik, since she should be in j.2S recovery all the way down. Also, my bad. I didn't press SH together, I plinked them since I've heard it's a valid strat to extend your wakeup dp timeframe. I probably hit H first if that makes any difference. So, the swords probably tanked the hit for me I guess? Which, in that case, this would beat any reversal, even if the opponent i-framed through the sword's hitbox unscathed. I really wish that's true and I'm just not doing it properly every time, so I do occasionally get hit by DPs. We should look into it more though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zaeris Report post Posted July 21, 2015 I did manage to recreate it, the answer partly is it is svv, while a hsvv will hit both ram and sword because of its move horizontal hit box. S vv works when its not meaty but by 2 frame or so more after reversal window. Why does it work..... i can still science it some more. Looking at data i can see why old frame data svv Is 7 frames start up with an active of 3 (3) 11 and a full invul of frame 9 and strike of 10 - 12. Looking at its active component there is a dead spot of of active from frame 10 to 13 when you add start up plus active. And full invul is until 9 frames from start up after that strike. From my recreation it only works as a reversal, and will hit if its not reversal meaning it is hitting the dead spot of between the hit 1 and 2, its 2 frame slower start up compare to hsvv could by why you can safe jump it compare to hs vv. Hsvv will work because it is 5 frame start up and 2 frames active it is hitting ramlethal early from frame 6 to 7. And by your information earlier that you plink or even if you os by pressing s and hs together ggxrd prioty system goes weakest to strongest meaning that s has priority over hs. Plinking in sf4 only extended frames by 1 frame and with buffer now 3 i believe after patch, with any one 1 frame difference you can hit s and hs between frame 1 and 2 whichi the system can pick betweem vv s and hs where s would take priorty. Anyway that is my theory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Complexity Report post Posted July 21, 2015 I'm pretty sure you can't plink in Xrd. If you go to training mode and do a normal plink you will notice that whatever button that you pressed is grayed out because the game thinks that the button is being held down. For instance, doing p~pk will result in p being grayed out and what happens is that you only get k. If you do h~sh, you will probably get HSVV because h is the button that comes out first, assuming you completed your 623 motion before doing h~sh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zaeris Report post Posted July 21, 2015 We're are talking about reversal, so anything meaty cant be have a double frame input. Like during the buffer you can have 2 inputs before wake up. But because you're not in neutral the system chooses what special goes on that 1 wake up active frame if you input buffer 3 frames before that. Done some more testing: Against various dp from other character ky and axl it will beat out ramlethal and hit both swords. I can only recreate this with s vv but if someone wants to try reversal hs vv without plink. So it is not a start up issue if other slower dp can hit ramlethal. However when hs bat is reposition further away but not direcly above sol you can be reveraal dp with sol s vv. The following normal events happen sol svv hits both bats and ramlethal. Which leads me to conclude that it is a combination of s vv not having a great hit box directly above him and a combination of start up active and dead frames between 1st and 2nd hit. Edit: i see what you mean because xrd doesnt have a negative edge system, except eddie. But i think with a 3 frames buffer you can piano keys fast enough rather p pk its p~k. Edit2: never realise that when bats fall down they dont necessarily position themself in the same area lol. It is readjust towards your opponent location but it could screw up 6hs positioning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syklone Report post Posted July 21, 2015 So I got some new info from Daiji's stream again. It involves the coner KK4K setup. This one appears to be DP safe (Sol Badguy) and you get a multi-layered mixup, all combos on hit, and gets a KKK ender with a solid height. It goes: Splat into deploy blah blah blah.....KK4K J6S>YRC>2HS>IABD JK>(2HS hits)>dash up J8D>KKK into whateves. If Sol dps his dp went towards the corner lol, Blitz also failed. Edit: You can also do the other nonsense from the 6HS deploy. Ex. 6S>YRC>6HS>Empty Sweep. You'll the corner though and go back to lol mode. So you need to learn your side switch combos for this. Looks like Leo's extremely gay DP gets it for free though. However I did see him get around it a few times, looked like he delay the air back dash. TEST IT OUT!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nyaa Report post Posted July 21, 2015 KK4K J6S>YRC>2HS>IABD JK Um, does he jump towards for that J6S? Any video of this? Does he jump over for the J6S so he's closer to the corner than Sol when doing j2H? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zaeris Report post Posted July 21, 2015 I remember playing around with it a while back. I did remember it require crouch stance for some characters. I do believe its j96s since for iad back it needs to be a cross over. Edit: follow up on sols dp hit box you can do the standard combo ender 2d or j8d low ender. 2hs high air dash j2hs above sol. Although j8d ender is more meaty. Both hs and s dp will whiff or in most situation that a cross over may occur when sol input 6 late. Otherwise it forces a block 2hs for any mix up and it converted by 2s afterwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syklone Report post Posted July 21, 2015 Yes the JS will crossup like normal. And nah, I think this setup is relatively new. Crossup, back to the other side (even Faust couldn't crouch it). You can opt out and stay on the same side and fall with jk, but I don't think 2HS will connect off of only J.k. Put a normal in between it, and it should work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zaeris Report post Posted July 21, 2015 I mean it needs a crouching stance for you to iad back. If for example the standing guard stance, does that become a wall that you cant iad back. Probably need a vid later, at work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syklone Report post Posted July 21, 2015 Nah you don't. I think you just need to jump higher. He had no prob doing it. I haven't tested it much myself yet though so it's up to you for now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheArm05 Report post Posted July 21, 2015 I have seen Daiji practicing the setup on stream. Can confirm it works on standing block. Also can confirm the setup is rather mechanically difficult to pull off LOL. One of my friends recorded quite a bit of Kuni Ramlethal at Evo btw. I will post up the link when he gets the footage uploaded. Kuni is quite good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syklone Report post Posted July 21, 2015 I've done it. I don't see what's difficult about it. Some of the corner carry combos are harder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zaeris Report post Posted July 21, 2015 New tech is always fun to play with. Didnt realise kuni went to evo. Edit: still its all corner stuff which ramlethal is already good at and spending yrc means restricting tension gain means you might not be able to pull off a second yrc mix up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syklone Report post Posted July 21, 2015 I know and the mixups are good, no one doubts that, it's flopping around in neutral like a dumbass that needs to go. Ramlethal=Magikarp. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zaeris Report post Posted July 22, 2015 Whats the combo when you already have swords deploy for the 4k corner ender j6s yrc variant when you want s sword first. Atm mines like wall splat dash c.s 5hs jc j2s land 2pk 2hs [2s hits] dash 5kk4k or 5k4k but it doesnt stablise vs lights and ectera. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheArm05 Report post Posted July 22, 2015 The one I find the most stable and use the most for corner set swords is splat IAD delay j.k j.2hs cS (2HS hits) j.2s 5k(2s hit)4k It is stable even on rather long combos pre splat on most the cast tho it can be tricky on the lights. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
