[Xrd 1.1] Ramlethal Gameplay Discussion Thread

[Killey]

Alright so I got sick of how all the information here is not consolidated properly. A lot of the information is scattered through the thread pages and none of it is consolidated in the first post of their respective threads. I've created a WIP google doc that consolidates the information we've posted in the various threads. The Ky forums have got a google doc going on as well with a lot of personal notes from some of the more notable Ky players.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YAk-RRh4fQcdNJflA5E1xIgGeUugJsaGyS6jCDE1qDs/pub

I have no problems with having this on the dustloop wiki as well but I don't have editing permissions so just easier to do it in a google doc.

[Labrys31]

Alright so I got sick of how all the information here is not consolidated properly. A lot of the information is scattered through the thread pages and none of it is consolidated in the first post of their respective threads. I've created a WIP google doc that consolidates the information we've posted in the various threads. The Ky forums have got a google doc going on as well with a lot of personal notes from some of the more notable Ky players.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YAk-RRh4fQcdNJflA5E1xIgGeUugJsaGyS6jCDE1qDs/pub

I have no problems with having this on the dustloop wiki as well but I don't have editing permissions so just easier to do it in a google doc.

Thanks a lot for this! 

[Nyaa]

Is that document for pre-nerf or post-nerf?

[Killey]

Is that document for pre-nerf or post-nerf?

The document is post 1.10. Some of the match up notes were 1.00 Ramlethal but I just updated the Sol section to reflect on the changes. If there's anything that's wrong please let me know so I can correct it.

Match up stats are probably incorrect since I don't have enough match up information and I need input from other players here.

[Killey]

I'm catching up on Arc Revo replays and noticed this match between Takehara (Ram) vs Machaboo (Ky). The match happens at the 2h14m10s mark. Takehara beats Machaboo 2 rounds straight with overall solid play and some incredible air throws. It's worth noting considering how strong Machaboo Ky was at Arc Revo. The match up is in Ramlethal's favor but the advantage shrunk from 7-3 to 6-4 with Ram nerfs and Ky buffs. I play both characters so it's interesting to see how this matched played out from both perspectives. Takehara was definitely familiar with the match up while Machaboo didn't know about the specifics but his fundamentals are strong to begin with.

There's an interesting set up he uses in round 1 where he does a corner combo with swords deployed away from corner and he does the standard wall splat > dash c.S > immediate nj.2S > c.S > 623P > dash j.8D. Usually I do 6HS, nj.2HS into a mix up because the 6HS hits meaty in this scenario but the block stun is rather minor. Takehara goes for nj.2HS > land > Cassius YRC dash forward 6K (probably can mix it up with 2D/3K/2KP). It's nothing amazing mind you but I like the use of Cassius YRC to force the opponent to block something but also as a timing mechanism to compensate for the additional 2HS start up to travel from midscreen. If 6K landed the 2HS would have combo'd and he would be able to convert into damage and another oki setup.

In round 2 he does another interesting setup where he gets the wall splat with swords deployed away from the corner does dash c.S > 5HS > 4HS > 2D > 6HS > nj.2S > 2KPK (could probably go for KPP in the same situation). The timing is perfect for 6HS to hit meaty, and then 2KPK is timed where if it hits 2S combos for damage and if it's blocked 2S covers your recovery and actually makes you highly + on block to continue pressure.

Basically, in both scenarios he went for less fancy mix ups that were reversal safe and maintained pressure on Machaboo if he blocked the whole thing. I think the major highlights of the match though were Takehara's air throws. There were multiple cases in both rounds where the momentum was slipping away from Takehara but those air throws immmediately turned the tide and led to his victory, imo.

It's worth noting as well that Takehara qualified for Toshin-Gekitotsu under the Pro Gamer Alliance with Daigo, Machaboo, Sako, Kaznoko (Inoue), Taka, Koichi, Kiisha and a TBA winner of the 5th qualifier. Toshin-Gekitotsu is happening this weekend so I hope we get to see more footage from Takehara but the opponents on the OG side is stacked with quality players and bad match ups for Ramlethal (Bedman, Faust, Sol, and Millia).

[zaeris]

guess I'm curious but how did you deduce the match up ratio?

but otherwise a good watch but lack of quality ram player will always be a problem. And I hope to see machaboo again when he has ramlethal full match up knowledge.

[Killey]

Match up stats is based on personal experiences, information gathering on the opposite character via forums, twitter, etc... and watching various Japanese videos on the match up. I don't expect them to be 100% accurate and could see a few of the match ups shifting based on additional input. I'd like to get a collaborative effort going with this google doc. 

[zaeris]

Was curious, guess I need to brush up on my ky match up. Otherwise I will try some input base on what little knowledge I have lol.

[matic]

On the doc matchups.
Anyone else think i-no post patch is more 6-4 i-no adv.? Maybe it's just me, as shes always been my demon when i play ram. I just think it's way easier for her to get started than ram.

And bedman I honestly think bedman is 7-3 bed. From my experience and watching others and Jp players. I really feel like bedman commands this MU. I rarely see even high level rams win against him. Ram has some options but i dont see them as terribly practical much of the time seeing how many different routes/setups he could do. Seems more like she's fishing for some random hit while dodging his nonsense unable to really commit to much

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Killey]

I think the I-No match up is more like the first person to get a knockdown wins. It's a match up where you want to keep swords equipped for the most part because you can 2S/2HS her HCL and a couple of her dash and dive approaches as well. 

You have to really understand how Bedman works in order to navigate his neutral game and defend against his mix ups. After playing against a local Bedman I've gotten a better understanding of the match up that has transitioned to playing against a variety of other Bedmans with more success. Granted, they're not at the highest caliber of Bedman play but understanding how to play neutral vs Bedman is really important and makes the match up doable. 

[Mikros]

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snf1hb

Something Daiji posted right now. Anyone capable of translating this into understandable sentences? 

Seems to be a huge post in regards to the kk4k corner mixup.

[NowItsAngeTime]

So I've read Dustloop wiki, watched some videos, And the Guide that was posted on the top of Page 6 for Ramelthel. I'm relatively new to Xrd and still learning some of the intricacies of the game beyond more universal 2D fighting game mechanics.

I have some questions that I can use to improve my general Ram gameplay.  

• Outside for use of summoning / returning / attacking swords what are some good uses for Yellow RC?
• In general what are the most common 3 hit PK combos to do? 5/2KPP seems good for overhead and can lead to follow ups. PPP seems good for push back in midscreen. The ones ending in 4K seem best if you actually got a successful confirm and can go to air combo. These are just my speculation based on what I've tried and feel free to tell me if I'm wrong. 2KKK seems like a good low hit confirm to knockdown.
• Is it better to do 1-2 hit PK combos into Sword attack/recall if it's safe? 
• When is it better to do 1-2 hit PK combos vs 3 hitters?
• In neutral how often should you keep one Sword, vs having both swords out, vs having both out.
• In neutral is generally better to do 6S/H (since they are faster) or 2S/H (since it covers a wider range it knocks up). 2S/H seems better for anti-air while 6S/H seems better for ground pressure and combos.
• Is 623P (Daruo) only good to combo start when close 5S/5H/2D hits or does it have any other use?
• How often should you use 214K (Detruo) as an overhead as opposed to KPP, jP, jK?
• Is 214P projectile (Cassius) only good for anti-airs and some blockstrings?
• Does 632146H Distortion Super (Calvados) have any particular use? I can see the user for Trance (setting up a mixup even on block) or Explode (Reversal) but haven't seen a real use for Calvados.

I know Ram isn't the best beginner friendly character to use (especially for someone like me who wasn't really good at other fighting games beforehand) and she'll need a crap ton of practice to do well but I really like the concept of her playstyle and I'm not sure if I like her or Elphelt more so far.

[vanfleihight]

 

• Outside for use of summoning / returning / attacking swords what are some good uses for Yellow RC?

Reacting to yourself whiffing a punishable move at neutral and YRCing to cancel recovery and stay safe

YRC 214P to toss a projectile out to cover yourself for sword sets

YRC to mess with their inputs on wakeup to make it more difficult to reversal your oki

YRC to pause time briefly to see what your opponent is doing and react to it. One use is to YRC when they are jumping or airdashing to slow their movement down and attempt to air throw them.

YRC is required for her ideal corner oki

 

• In general what are the most common 3 hit PK combos to do? 5/2KPP seems good for overhead and can lead to follow ups. PPP seems good for push back in midscreen. The ones ending in 4K seem best if you actually got a successful confirm and can go to air combo. These are just my speculation based on what I've tried and feel free to tell me if I'm wrong. 2KKK seems like a good low hit confirm to knockdown.

2KPK & 2KPP for a weak/average high/low on block. High ender is not a true blockstring.

PPP, KKK, PKK are pretty much interchangeable combo filler in the corner to get the wallsplat. PPP is the easiest one to combo from but does slightly less damage.

KK4K & K4K are combo enders that lead to her ideal oki

2KK is good for confirming random hits into a knockdown to get her oki started.

KPP is not really used much anymore since it doesn't have a high/low guess on the last hit and doesn't have any use in combos.

 

• Is it better to do 1-2 hit PK combos into Sword attack/recall if it's safe? 

If you are midscreen, have swords set already, and find yourself confirming into a juggle, you can do something like 623P > PK > recall one sword > PK > recall second sword > PPP. This allows you to go into the double set combo if you get into the corner or to reposition your swords by setting them again if they are still midscreen.

 

• When is it better to do 1-2 hit PK combos vs 3 hitters?

PK is mostly to juggle in midscreen combos to move their body toward the corner. PPP and other 3 hits are generally combo filler to get a wallsplat to extend your combo in the corner.

 

• In neutral how often should you keep one Sword, vs having both swords out, vs having both out.

It mostly depends on the matchup and personal preference/comfort. If you are fighting an immobile character like Pot or Leo you can be more liberal with your sword use to control space. If you are fighting very fast characters like Millia and Chipp you tend to keep the swords on you for the huge normals and because they can just outrun any sword set attacks. Most people set HS sword and keep S sword on them to poke and zone with fS.

 

• In neutral is generally better to do 6S/H (since they are faster) or 2S/H (since it covers a wider range it knocks up). 2S/H seems better for anti-air while 6S/H seems better for ground pressure and combos.

2S/H is for situations where you are medium - fullscreen distance from your opponent and can safely set that without getting hit. You also have to actively try and cover their options of escape if you do that, whether they try to run below the sword or jump over it or backward and away.

6S/H sets are good for medium - close range and a decent way to reset block strings. If you do use them in blockstrings you just have to keep in mind there are gaps when you set the sword.

Both options have their combo uses mainly in the corner.

 

• Is 623P (Daruo) only good to combo start when close 5S/5H/2D hits or does it have any other use?

Mainly for combos. If your opponent is playing wild you can attempt to fish for hits with it as well. One trick you can do on block is fS > 623P YRC. This helps you gap close unexpectedly and you can attempt a high/low/command throw.

 

• How often should you use 214K (Detruo) as an overhead as opposed to KPP, jP, jK?

If you throw it out and notice your opponent never blocks it or mashes out there's no reason not to use it. Against someone who can deal with it it is very easy to react to and mash out so it's not worth it.

KPP should be avoided since it's very linear and has no high/low guessing.

 

• Is 214P projectile (Cassius) only good for anti-airs and some blockstrings?

It is a decent tool with YRC to have something shielding you while you set swords. If you have both swords set and you're in the awkward range where fS doesn't quite reach but it's too close to safely set swords you can 214P YRC and sword set or use it as a shield to gap close and do things up close.

 

• Does 632146H Distortion Super (Calvados) have any particular use? I can see the user for Trance (setting up a mixup even on block) or Explode (Reversal) but haven't seen a real use for Calvados.

 

It is a good combo ender since I believe it does more damage than Trance now. Example combo: in the corner with both swords set > 623P > PPP wallsplat > cS HS > recall > cS 2D > recall > Calvados. This will hit OTG.

At neutral with 75 meter you can super > YRC to fill the screen with a giant laser to lock them down and force them to block. Not worth it most of the time but can be situationally useful.

I think it also combos off certain counter hits like CH j.S in the air.

[Maadhum]

5KPP has some uses. Its not amazing but considering Ram's options for blockstrings I find myself using it occasionally, especially in corner pressure. 5K doesn't lead to anything unless they're crouching but its got a good hitbox/startup/attack level to force pressure and mixups.

On a blocking cornered opponent you can do: 5KPP, 5KP~1K/2D 623P or 5KP 6H/S

If they choose to block, they'll have to guess if you'll finish the series or end at 5KP and go low. If they block 5KPP overhead, it leaves you +3 and very close to the opponent to do whatever. 5KP is only -1 so you can attempt to frame trap with 2K/5K or 5P but its going to depend on spacing, what normal they use and how quickly they react. Can also cancel into sword summons/recalls. This all works a lot better if you can space the 5KP to hit with the tip of their hitbox as the overhead moves her forward quite a bit. At this spacing 2D will require a dash before it to connect.

[DeepInThot]

Does her overhead string still juggle? I keep trying to do some v1.0 combos I find on Youtube and I cannot seem to do them because the opponent's body still drops.

[Putin]

2KPP works the same, you can even follow it up with equipped 5H on some characters. 5KPP has more gravity now though, 5P connects afterwards if you do it fast enough

[DeepInThot]

2KPP works the same, you can even follow it up with equipped 5H on some characters. 5KPP has more gravity now though, 5P connects afterwards if you do it fast enough

Thanks man! I've started getting some hits with it in online, I love it.

Also, why tf is Sin's slide plus on block? That shit looks so unsafe but it isn't. #Salt

Also, what is the trick to not dropping the mid screen PK to corner loop so they can't tech out. I get to the second PK and try to wall splat and they tech out.

[zaeris]

Pk combo require less confirm at start so 2 hits or less before dauro and mainly dash momentum on the second pk to be deep for kp c.s dauro to connect. Then there a few character specific issue like ky and venom and lighter characters.

[Putin]

A somewhat old writeup for KK4K by Daiji, I'm just leaving it here in case someone fluent in moon can give us any extra details

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snf0s6

[vanfleihight]

http://esports-runner.com/guilty-gear-xrd/garospe/

New unblockable looks like it might be incredibly useful for Ram with a good setup.

[Nyaa]

PC Xrd is finally released and I snooped in the files and found something interresting regarding Ram that's 100% useless.

From the translation files, her dauro, before translated as dauro, is classified as CxRAMFujinken.

According to google translate, fujinken means women's rights. Also, exploder is called CxRAMTosshinRanbuExe, which can be translated as wild rushdance (rush/charge wild dance). All of her launch/retrieval moves are named bunri, which means separation/detachment.

 

Sadly, Cassius isn't logical, it's classified as CxRAMmiddleShot. Interrestingly, sildo is classified as CxRAMBanditRevolverLand and CxRAMBanditRevolverAir. That's some lazy naming.

[Poultrygeist]

Um, I think fujin in this context is supposed to be a mythology reference, like Anji's move.

[Nyaa]

More RAMblings incoming. I extracted rams coat texture because I was curious of what's written on it. WHO KNEW IT HAD TEXT ON IT.

 

just west of wherever - here i reign
far east of elsewhere - where you remain
right here is where - i'm left
here in the middle of nowhere - i shall be slain

no rights are left for you
what is right - when all that's left is wrong
what is left - when you lose all your rights

 

Honestly I expected south of somewhere and north of nowhere.

[Complexity]

South of the tier list.

[Nyaa]

I started using umod to edit textures.

Fun but tedious, the textures are pretty hard to work with since there's no guide whatsoever what fits where. Don't mind the hair or anything, i'm definitely not going to be using that hair.

Does it say 'nyaa' on the swords? Fuck yes it does.

Bonus character select: http://i.imgur.com/eCgcrxZ.jpg