Poultrygeist Report post Posted July 14, 2015 This is only going to get you to some basic level of competence. And folks say "They deal with it in SF4" but I've been watching MAJORS where top tier players were struggling with matchups because they didn't have experience with them. Recently. In a game where footsies and fundamentals will carry you a LOT further. There IS such a thing as too many characters. I agree that there's such a thing as too many characters but GGAC and its updates never had serious balance issues despite its huge roster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Myoro Report post Posted July 14, 2015 We end up talking about how adding characters screws up balance with each new addition to the series. Can't we just skip to the end where people realize that CT with its cast of (12 was it?) was no paragon of balance, and CPE with it's Cast of 28 though not without its issues has every character being able to stay competitive at the very least? Let's not assume a broken game 'til we see arcade gameplay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mAc Chaos Report post Posted July 14, 2015 This is only going to get you to some basic level of competence. And folks say "They deal with it in SF4" but I've been watching MAJORS where top tier players were struggling with matchups because they didn't have experience with them. Recently. In a game where footsies and fundamentals will carry you a LOT further. There IS such a thing as too many characters. No I'm aware of that too; it was part of the hype during the major, "will so and so player be able to handle this unheard of character?? The excitement!!" But that just means that having to factor in unknowns becomes part of the metagame, just like how in MtG you can have a rogue deck appear out of nowhere and target all of the top decks' weak spots. Also SWD I wouldn't say it's so easy to master more than one character. I wouldn't even say I've mastered my own character. All of the time you put into "mastering" the second character could instead be put into getting that much farther with your first character, which could make needing the second one unnecessary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TAI-X Report post Posted July 14, 2015 I agree that there's such a thing as too many characters but GGAC and its updates never had serious balance issues despite its huge roster. Because GG characters are far more defined by SF-style fundamentals instead of arbitrary novelty gimmicks, and none of GG's cast through Accent Core was added simply to please fans of certain otaku-friendly anime archetypes or pander to people who only play story mode. With most BB characters there's a clearly defined flow to their playstyle structured around their Drive that you generally have to follow to succeed, while GG favors individualistic strategies a lot more, even with its most "gimmicky" characters like Zappa/ABA/Bedman. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dreiko Report post Posted July 14, 2015 Ultimately this "there's too many matchups to learn!" thing sounds like a red herring to me. Nobody who was a master of every MU in an older version would think this. They'd just bite the bullet and just learn the new char MUs and adjust their prior knowledge for the returning char MUs. This means the ones who complain about this most likely are people who weren't gonna learn all the MUs even if there were fewer ones to learn, making this issue a convenient excuse for their badness if you will. Like I said above, there is methods of fixing this if people are really concerned and this isn't just a talking point or a red herring to explain away and justify laziness/badness/etc. And yes as mentioned above there's always the factor of the unpredictability with this many chars and these many unknown MUs. People shouldn't feel as though they have something in the bag when they've not even learned all the MUs yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Myoro Report post Posted July 14, 2015 No I'm aware of that too; it was part of the hype during the major, "will so and so player be able to handle this unheard of character?? The excitement!!" But that just means that having to factor in unknowns becomes part of the metagame, just like how in MtG you can have a rogue deck appear out of nowhere and target all of the top decks' weak spots. Also SWD I wouldn't say it's so easy to master more than one character. I wouldn't even say I've mastered my own character. All of the time you put into "mastering" the second character could instead be put into getting that much farther with your first character, which could make needing the second one unnecessary. Alternatively, learning the second character can give you insight on how to fight a player using said character. In a way it would buff every character you play in the match-up against the character you're learning, including your main. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SoWL Report post Posted July 14, 2015 Because GG characters are far more defined by SF-style fundamentals instead of arbitrary novelty gimmicks, and none of GG's cast through Accent Core was added simply to please fans of certain otaku-friendly anime archetypes or pander to people who only play story mode. You know, other than Bridget. And Jam. And Dizzy. I'll never grow tired of this "Guilty Gear is totally unlike the modern anime" mindset. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mAc Chaos Report post Posted July 14, 2015 Alternatively, learning the second character can give you insight on how to fight a player using said character. In a way it would buff every character you play in the match-up against the character you're learning, including your main. Well yeah, but that's different than counter picking as a strategy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TAI-X Report post Posted July 14, 2015 It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Blazblue after (probably) BBCFEX. Mori himself have stated that the game he will make after BBCF is not going to be a fighting game, and probably not being related to Blazblue. So either Blazblue is only going to have updates, or someone else is going to take charge. Or Mori lied again. Late reply, but I could easily see the next BB after CFEX being a JRPG. Feels like the kind of game that Mori really wants to make at this point. They probably won't go down the "standalone visual novel" route again after the XBLAZE games were such a sales flop - I think Lost Memories was only released because they were already well into development and it would have been more expensive to cancel it. It'll never happen, but I'd love to see a reprise of Guilty Gear 2 in the Blazblue universe. They could get away with it if it was marketed as a musou game rather than a strategy game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kentaku Report post Posted July 14, 2015 Omg Naoto is so going to be one of my mains lol Still Ragna is the real thing though so I dont think he'll ever be cooler than Ragna Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VermilionBird Report post Posted July 14, 2015 Poorly made, I know, but I thought I'd check on what slots are available. Didn't bother to do the sides because lets be realistic here. I'm genuinely surprised by how much space there is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryu-bi Report post Posted July 15, 2015 In counterpicking situations it boils down to my tools vs theirs like I prefer playing Haz (over Nu/Valk/Mu) vs Tager with his CH 3C and Chains to fly away from Magnetism but I just die harder if my wakeup Hotenjin gets blocked... I see Active Flow awards bonus when you're attacking, but hopefully it is not what I fear it to be: - Put someone in long continuous block string > Active Flow Activated - Land a miracle hit afterwards > Jackpot I'd rather see someone in a guard crush or dizzy state after getting hit continuously Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Argent Zero Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Hope there's a better net code for BBCF console version! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HoudiniJr100 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 speaking of tager, who else is glad that he finally learned to toss people across the screen. I dunno what the rebound off the corner was but if there's a way to capitalize off that I'd like to see the possibilities. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airk Report post Posted July 15, 2015 All this talk comparing the situation to Guilty Gear is missing a fundamental point - R+ had 26 characters. That's a reasonably manageable number. CP (not CPE) also had that number. We're at 30 already for CF, and I daresay it'll be bigger before (or not long after) the game comes out. Mid-high 20s is roughly what I think of as the sweet spot for a roster - it's enough to give you enormous variety without making actually learning the cast a chore. Pushing up much beyond that and it starts to get ugly with characters with this much differentiation. It can be kinda fun to see if an SF player can get by on fundamentals. It's much less fun to watch someone get gimmicked to death. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Errol Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Frankly, there may be a lot to learn if you're starting fresh, but if you've been playing the games as they come out, it shouldn't be an issue. You've had almost 2 years to learn how to play against Bullet, Izayoi, Azrael, etc. Matchups change some but not that much that you can't adapt all of your past experience pretty quickly, generally. I mean, seriously, 2 years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Henjin Report post Posted July 15, 2015 My god,the HUD looks more outdated than CT itself. And its nice to know how long your OD last now that it has a counter. And its nice to kno that tager has another throw move. Might abuse it for shits and giggles or another way of saying "GTFO" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeromus_X Report post Posted July 15, 2015 The hit counter almost looks like a throwback to CT. The new character portraits...not sure if want Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keychain Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Everyone has great portraits besides Terumi imo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mAceOfHearts Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Everyone has great portraits besides Terumi imo. Terumi's is the best though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keychain Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Terumi's is literally symmetrical and looks half-assed because of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heavymetalmixer Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Terumi's is literally symmetrical and looks half-assed because of it. That portrait says "Weird-ass poses? Nah, this pose is more than enough." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TD Report post Posted July 15, 2015 This is a weird discussion... Any more news on the game? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dualseeker Report post Posted July 15, 2015 This is a weird discussion... Any more news on the game? Thank you OMG. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chzchan Report post Posted July 15, 2015 What is this supposed to be or was it discussed earlier? Oh wait it was. Oh well, here's a picture. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites