[CF] Blazblue CENTRAL FICTION: News and Gameplay Discussion

[GunBlazer]

2 hours ago, Zouf said:

Finally OD will have some uses.

 

Well, it wasn't entirely worthless for you Tsubaki mains.

[Zouf]

It was in CP 1.0. Then they nerfed it so it became useless in 2.0, except for that great double DD ender, which happens 0.1% of the time

[TD]

Iirc, OD time left gets a numerical value instead of just displaying a guesstimate bar. Should be much more simple go factor in timings to sync EA in early OD combos or certain lower-health combos, than it is now - but only after long-time lab work.

[Zedar90]

Video explaining Naoto and Hibiki. It also has Ragna's arcade story.

Nu is the 7th opponent for Ragna, so yeah, Nine is probably going to be act 1 boss.

[oh no, he said]

At least we finally get a decent look at Hibiki's overdrive. Clones being fast enough to combo into each other means hibiki can sit pretty at fullscreen and fish for combos. Anyone tries any funny zoning business on him he can just throw out a full screen punish for the trouble.

236A~D's timing doesn't look as strict as I've heard it was. I'm not sure if that can be used as a combo starter at midscreen, though it definitely looks like it could lead into a nasty corner combo. 

I just want to know if either of his DDs have any true use in combos. Right now it kinda looks like they're both fullscreen punishes, with one giving the opponent more time to react while being relatively difficult to punish, while the other gives the opponent less time to react but is one of the most hilariously punishable moves in the game. I've seen 632146D be used as a combo ender, but only on really short combos where just keeping up the combo probably would have been the better option. You might be able to RC that hilarious recovery time to convert it into a combo (like a ghetto OD612346D by RCing into his izuna drop... For style points, of course) though I've yet to hear anything about people doing that. 

 

[Luminos564]

3 hours ago, Zedar90 said:

Video explaining Naoto and Hibiki. It also has Ragna's arcade story.

Nu is the 7th opponent for Ragna, so yeah, Nine is probably going to be act 1 boss.

Yoooooo, that Ragna vs. Naoto stare-down. Holy moly guacamole, it's like the Accent Core Sol vs. Ky intro except the animosity is thick enough to cut with a bayonet. Though I imagine a certain group of fans will interpret the closeness in a...different way .

Really liking what they've done with both Naoto and Hibiki. They look pretty damn fun and though I may never actually play them seriously against other people (unless something changes because you never know) I am glad for their inclusion. Just a few more days before the arcade release hits. The anticipation is killing me.

[Vulcan422]

Naoto has a KOF dodge.

FUCKING BASED.

[Zouf]

Holy shit Naoto looks so sweet.

 

[SoWL]

Oh, hey, just noticed that the character portraits on the character select screen are now colored. Which means that Nu/Lambda players won't be picking the wrong character by accident.

[Icefang]

Yo, Naoto got that Andy elbow.

[kosmos badgirl]

I like Hibiki and Naoto mechanics a lot, looking forward to see what people do with them.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Yea, I really look forward to see what people can do with them. Legitimately hyped for both.

[TD]

Hibiki Is just masculine enough to not be a trap. Cool characters. A little more hype for hibiki than I should be lol

[Dazardz]

Hibiki looks great, I don't think you can be too hype for him.

Can't wait to have my fun with him, but I look forward to simply watching it for now.

[skd]

On 11/15/2015, 4:20:39, Myoro said:

The real value of EA seems to be that it activates AF after it connects. This would mean that early OD cancel combos could become less expensive overall because you'd get the burst back insanely quick afterword, however that would mean that the OD cancel combo would have to end just before the OD ended, which if memory serves isn't a lot of time to get much use out of the OD cancel from the higher HP ODc's. (Although I have heard that OD values have been altered in some way or another, so that could be Mori and co. taking account of this..?)

Of course having a safe(ish?) reversal option isn't bad. It kinda brings what I'd assumed would be the original use for OD raid to the bulk of the cast. Of course OD raid hasn't been too much of a game stealer in my experience, so similarly I'm not too frightened of the prospect.

Eh, it's very character specific and not many characters actually have the means to combo into EA at the end of their combos without the quick cancel variant. Unless you gain many benefits from passive OD, you will literally be trading your burst to put yourself into AF. This is...pretty detrimental, if anything lol. I have a burst, so I'm going to use it to get my burst back...???

It seems more like spending a resource just to spend it than using it most effectively! For many characters, just having it is a much better choice than using it. Of course, you will need to show you can use it correctly (defensively) to make it a threat, but correctly is pretty tough lol.

Thanks to EA base damage, going for EA combos usually ends up doing less damage than your normal combo (with potentially much weaker oki), but you also need to consider the timing and "opportunity cost" of it.

You lose the potential to be in AF, and while you are very likely to get your burst back, having your burst in conjunction with AF is definitely something you want to consider as well. And, you've probably given up a good oki setup.

You still get burst recovery even after having your EA blocked (while in AF), in a late round situation this sets up for next round very well. On hit, your EA does...twice as much damage, and leaves you with ~30%, which is...acceptable, defensively speaking this scenario is highly favorable and just about as good as it gets when you use your burst. And yes, you can get AF on defense.

Whereas if you spent your AF potential earlier using EA / burst at any point before the middle of the round, it would leave you with not much early or mid game utility of that resource in the next round (assuming you know, you actually used your burst and didnt just do EA to get your burst back and do nothing with it), and a much lower likelihood of good position / tradeoff. So, round planning plays a really big part in how you'd want to use that aspect of it, and frankly more often than not I don't think its the right choice.

Alternatively, you lose the actual passive threat of OD, and as such your opponent's option cover is going to change.

Straight up, if a character does not have many passive benefits from OD (that persist after OD is over) or lack of combos that allow it at the very end / maximize OD application (spending OD for an extra 300-400 damage is NOT worth it, a la noel) then their OD usage is going to take a more passive role. For example, if you were using Relius OD to regenerate your doll meter, thats a great usage and honestly justifies active usage of AF.

But for someone like Jin or Noel, it really serves no purpose aside from meager damage increase and actually is detrimental to their overall ensuing risk/reward, especially on offense. If it isn't, then why are you in a rush to build your burst back? Late round situation, one / two hits could mean the round? Yes, in this case it is a good idea. But the implication is you passed up on a better situation earlier, or you just didnt have your burst then (both of which you should try to avoid, but it's good contingency).

Otherwise, just take stronger oki from an OD confirm, and don't bother going into the EA if you don't /need/ the recovery, because leaving your options open can potentially cause a much more skewed situation. You can even get AF on defense if it ever comes to that, which would (should) be all the more likely with a better situation from an OD confirm. In the case that goes wrong, you're likely not that far off from getting AF and being able to turn the situation around. 

It's just about planning and mediating risk/reward!!!

The biggest benefit that EA causing AF permits is getting your burst back /on defense/. If you truly need to weaken an offensive situation, you can passively do so with the threat of EA. The risk/reward and implications of how these situations should be structured generally call towards having OD for defensive options.

AF with EA on defense is actually so silly. AF with EA on offense is...not really that good but whatever, it's better than nothing (10% base damage is ok, and you get a bonus 2k base damage slapped onto your ea. this doesn't really translate SUPER well into raw damage because there's no min, but its a little bit of an increase in most combos. Plus, your AF doesn't end if they don't die. Yeah!!).

tl;dr EA activating AF has it's uses, but it usually doesn't justify how you'd want to apply EA, ESPECIALLY in combos.

RE: OD raid - eek, you are comparing one thing that is significantly weaker by design and one that is significantly stronger and saying because your experience with one being weak, you aren't really afraid of the other?

The design properties and applications speak for themselves :\ I don't even get why you'd take OD raid as that kind of thing, it doesn't even come close to having that kind of application lol. Either way, the two of them do work rather well /in conjunction/ so!

Edited November 16, 2015 by skd

[FinalDoomGuy]

I think I'd like active flow a little bit more if it was more apparent that you were getting it. They could reuse the guard libra UI element for it. It just seems like a really cool mechanic like AF should get its own bit of UI.

[Chaoschao222]

Is that not what Attention! is for?

[MrAbyss]

Is there going to a be a stream that will stream release day games?

[Ragnarok_F4]

Wow, they look more hype than I thought, specially Naoto. He has so many options from his moves, very solid. BBCF is looking great indeed :D

[Myoro]

The OD cancel itself is a reason to throw out an OD combo for some characters I think. Using Relius for an example, in a rare instance where I need damage but have no Ignis or meter to call upon for a 236C~214A>22C>2D or 236C>Rapid, 3C>ODc>5B or 2C can act as a substitute to get that 3K~4.5K instead of the mere 1~1.6K of ending in 3C or 236C (As well as the added gains of popping OD for Ignis recovery.) The game's not out yet so I can't attest to the value of doing something like ending  combo in EA for getting AF, there would be the drawbacks of losing your burst, although for a much shorter time than usual, and who knows what kind of detriment to oki (I really haven't seen what kind of knockdown or advantage EA's give in general having only really studied the CF Rel footage where none were present, so that's on me. I planned to watch everyone else's gameplay more thoroughly when it finally hit arcades, but for Relius I wanted to observe the directional changes as they happened.) But until the game comes out i'm just brainstorming options it'll give rather than testing or guessing over the effectiveness of said uses really.

Indeed, if we could get good damage off of an ODC combo into EA with AF as an additional reward in a situation where otherwise you wouldn't get damage, the question sort of becomes "would you for X amount of damage and Y amount of time with a slight damage bonus, spend Z amount of time burst-less?" I remember OD time being changed for some characters at the very least, (Tao I think got 4 seconds on a raw OD at 100% HP in one of the lokes...) so there's the chance that we can change some less damaging confirms into heavier damaging confirms and put our AF right where we need it. A lot of what tempts me is simply that it lets you activate AF on your terms so as long as it hasn't been wasted already in the match not a single frame doesn't go toward burst regeneration. (I've been told the damage bonus to AF isn't that great unless we're talking EA's.) Again a whole ton of stuff depends on how easy AF is to manipulate I think. If it is a lot more common/easy to control the placement of, then yeah there's really not much point to putting it in combos in most situations.

The advantage of having a burst is now more powerful than ever, but I'm not quite willing to just say no with the information I have.

RERE: OD Raid -There's a good chance I'm misunderstanding just what's been said about just what EA is like defensively, but it doesn't seem too much different than a safer Tager 720 or Houtenjin out of OD raid to me. I get that it's a invincible move that can be thrown out any time you're on the ground and in OD, but unless you're using OD for the aforementioned resource gain, for stopping the game timer, for an OD raid reversal or during or after an OD combo what other situation is a character going to have the opportunity to use EA in? It's a reversal, it's safe, but it's also something that has to be telegraphed right? Could it not then be whiffed guard-pointed or out-DP'd on reaction?

I'll read it over again. I definitely feel like I'm missing something if you're calling it that strong.

[Dreiko]

I originally thought you had to input the 6 for Hibiki's clones together with the D so as to decide where he ends up, apparently you have a lot of leeway to decide if you want him to end up forward or not, leeway that's expanded upon in OD too. His drive sounds really good.

[BlackYakuzu94]

1 hour ago, Myoro said:

The OD cancel itself is a reason to throw out an OD combo for some characters I think. Using Relius for an example, in a rare instance where I need damage but have no Ignis or meter to call upon for a 236C~214A>22C>2D or 236C>Rapid, 3C>ODc>5B or 2C can act as a substitute to get that 3K~4.5K instead of the mere 1~1.6K of ending in 3C or 236C (As well as the added gains of popping OD for Ignis recovery.) The game's not out yet so I can't attest to the value of doing something like ending  combo in EA for getting AF, there would be the drawbacks of losing your burst, although for a much shorter time than usual, and who knows what kind of detriment to oki (I really haven't seen what kind of knockdown or advantage EA's give in general having only really studied the CF Rel footage where none were present, so that's on me. I planned to watch everyone else's gameplay more thoroughly when it finally hit arcades, but for Relius I wanted to observe the directional changes as they happened.) But until the game comes out i'm just brainstorming options it'll give rather than testing or guessing over the effectiveness of said uses really.

Indeed, if we could get good damage off of an ODC combo into EA with AF as an additional reward in a situation where otherwise you wouldn't get damage, the question sort of becomes "would you for X amount of damage and Y amount of time with a slight damage bonus, spend Z amount of time burst-less?" I remember OD time being changed for some characters at the very least, (Tao I think got 4 seconds on a raw OD at 100% HP in one of the lokes...) so there's the chance that we can change some less damaging confirms into heavier damaging confirms and put our AF right where we need it. A lot of what tempts me is simply that it lets you activate AF on your terms so as long as it hasn't been wasted already in the match not a single frame doesn't go toward burst regeneration. (I've been told the damage bonus to AF isn't that great unless we're talking EA's.) Again a whole ton of stuff depends on how easy AF is to manipulate I think. If it is a lot more common/easy to control the placement of, then yeah there's really not much point to putting it in combos in most situations.

The advantage of having a burst is now more powerful than ever, but I'm not quite willing to just say no with the information I have.

RERE: OD Raid -There's a good chance I'm misunderstanding just what's been said about just what EA is like defensively, but it doesn't seem too much different than a safer Tager 720 or Houtenjin out of OD raid to me. I get that it's a invincible move that can be thrown out any time you're on the ground and in OD, but unless you're using OD for the aforementioned resource gain, for stopping the game timer, for an OD raid reversal or during or after an OD combo what other situation is a character going to have the opportunity to use EA in? It's a reversal, it's safe, but it's also something that has to be telegraphed right? Could it not then be whiffed guard-pointed or out-DP'd on reaction?

I'll read it over again. I definitely feel like I'm missing something if you're calling it that strong.

I'm going to answer the first part because I'm not informed enough, but the latter with ODR is that EA has no superflash and it can be done straight from an OD activation, so I don't you actually can react to it.

[AchedSphinx]

I'm liking Naoto. The previous videos weren't super high quality so I couldn't get a sense for what is going on. But now I can and I'm curious as to how his combo paths and gameplan develops over the next few weeks. Hibiki looks sweet too. He has that Yosuke vibe to him, gameplay wise. Speedy characters are always tricky for me to use.

[Myoro]

1 hour ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

I'm going to answer the first part because I'm not informed enough, but the latter with ODR is that EA has no superflash and it can be done straight from an OD activation, so I don't you actually can react to it.

Oh that is very different. I'd no idea. Thanks for the response!

[Zedar90]

Soon. Info in famitsu this week.

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