Jump to content
kosmos badgirl

[CF] Blazblue CENTRAL FICTION: News and Gameplay Discussion

Recommended Posts

Yes, they listed all her throws as being affected. "Forward Throw", "Back Throw", "Midair Throw", "Jiai no Yuu" and "Kyoumu no Koku". The change was made specifically because of a bug where doing a throw in Mujuu no Tate could cause the Izanami player to lose control of their character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tokkan said:

Mostly just bugfixes. Also, Mujuu no Tate now gives Izanami's throws (and just her throws) invuln instead of guard point. Same change made for Nine's Heliodor.

is there any hint in the wording as to if its the active frames of the throw that are now invuln, or the startup? Or is it just a very broad statement, lol.

I can imagine why they'd want to give the active frames invuln, to avoid any ridiculous same frame interactions but if it was applied to startup it would prevent you from dealing with ribs+command throw in certain other useful ways.

Edited by skd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay so I have a quick question regarding just 4 characters, a brief explanation would be fine so I don't derail the thread. Anyways I was going through some tier list and discussions and saw that Hazama, Nu 13 and Rachel were all considered bad. This is the first time I have seen Hazama and Nu 13 so low and Racehl was pretty good in CP, what did they do to make these characters bad? The last character I'm curious about is Naoto as many consider him to be the worst in the game, why is that, I thought he just had a tricky to use style but was pretty decent. I mean I'm still gonna main him but I'm curious. Sorry if this is the wrong place but I figured it would be more productive than going to each individual thread and asking the same thing. It's just these changes baffled me. Even some patch notes for the 4 would be appreciated, thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

You might wanna watch better Naoto's then :V

Its hilarious how much they're sleeping on that character.

I hope not, Ragna the Bullet can go away as far as I care. I've seen nothing to indicate he has a worthwhile presence here in terms of gameplay or story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Scratchmen Apoo said:

Okay so I have a quick question regarding just 4 characters, a brief explanation would be fine so I don't derail the thread. Anyways I was going through some tier list and discussions and saw that Hazama, Nu 13 and Rachel were all considered bad. This is the first time I have seen Hazama and Nu 13 so low and Racehl was pretty good in CP, what did they do to make these characters bad? The last character I'm curious about is Naoto as many consider him to be the worst in the game, why is that, I thought he just had a tricky to use style but was pretty decent. I mean I'm still gonna main him but I'm curious. Sorry if this is the wrong place but I figured it would be more productive than going to each individual thread and asking the same thing. It's just these changes baffled me. Even some patch notes for the 4 would be appreciated, thanks.

Well, first off, Rachel is not bad, she's super good. You must have seen some old tier lists from the initial release when people hadn't yet figured out that her neutral game was buffed rather than nerfed because of lotus functioning as the new pumpkin, wind regen buffs, tempest dahlia buffs ect. So she has really strong zoning/keepaway now, and ivy blossom adds like a gorillion damage in corner combos.

Nu also isn't bad so much as she's... not as strong as she once was.  She's very average, maybe slightly below average. The loss of spike chaser hurts, and Luminous slave doesn't make up for the pressure lost in the least. She also can't chain her drive four times anymore, so she can't do 5D->6D->5D->6D/236DC, and I don't think you can use 236DC as a starter anymore unless on counterhit anyways(unless luminous is up, maybe?) so that just feels like a smack in the face. She's still fine but her zoning game has more holes in it this time around, so it' easier to get in her face where she can't do much to you.

Hazama and Naoto I haven't been watching closely enough to say. But Hazama honestly looks stronger than a lot of people are saying he is, or teir lists might imply. Not sure it's a matter of me not being able to see the flaws since I'm no hazama player but... he honestly doesn't look so bad, and I don't see what all the fuss is about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, SoWL said:

Damage and corner carry. Loads of it. With no heat required. If you get a few good reads, she can end the round very quickly.

Sounds like...every other rushdown character in the game?

As for characters that are "bad":

Rachel, as stated, is not bad, and most people are putting her pretty high up now.

Hazama ... I dunno.  The only thing I KNOW he lost is invuln on Jayoku, which means he's a little weaker on defense, I guess?  Though I think they also changed how chains regen.

Nu is not stupid good anymore, so people are annoyed at how "bad" she is. Not actually bad, just not particularly strong.

Naoto: I know nothing, but I don't know why you'd think of him as having a "tricky" playstyle - he looks super straightforward to me, which might be why people aren't digging him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Airk said:

Sounds like...every other rushdown character in the game?

You can put it that way if you want. Really, BB has so many characters at this point, it's hard to describe the differences between the similar ones in just a few words, especially if their gameplan is simple. There is only so much you can do with the "Get in and smash face" playstyle. Bullet may seem like she's a Makoto clone from the outside, but there are enough minute differences that the two attract different players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And that's why I kinda feel like they need to slow down on adding characters.  I'm not big on Naoto because he doesn't seem like he brings anything new or interesting to the game.  I feel the same way about Bullet, plus her in game visuals are fugly. ;P

It's not really clear to me whether the goal for Bullet was to make a "light grappler" and they just screwed it up, or if people just assumed that was what she was going to be, but when I look at her, all I see is a pretty generic rushdown character with a weird autoaim drive (that could as easily have been a special move) and a watered down version of Tsubaki's charge mechanic.  Not super inspiring, really.

Now, I'm not saying she's a copy of anyone or anything - if this were Street Fighter, the differences between her and other characters would be fine, but BB is all about characters with crazy defining features, and Bullet just doesn't really seem to have anything interesting going on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TekkamanArk said:

I hope not, Ragna the Bullet can go away as far as I care. I've seen nothing to indicate he has a worthwhile presence here in terms of gameplay or story.

So because you don't like him for arbitrary reasons, he doesn't deserve to be a viable character?

 

ooooook.

 

 

Anyway, I'm gonna focus on Naoto being considered "bad". Everyone seems to be under the impression that because he has short range, and that he looks like Ragna, he doesn't bring anything to the table, which is kinda horseshit. 

The simplest explanation is just from his drive, Bloodedge. Do you know how long the range on his drive moves gets when he charges? They cover almost literally a 1/4th of a screen, and that's not even getting into the reward he gets if he actually hits you with it raw. j.D in particular slows descent which allows him to stuff most anti-airs and confirm into big boy damage. He can also just feint or dash cancel out of the charge to help his approach. He's also one of the few characters with a low hitting 2A (actually, does anyone have a low 2A in this game?) There's also the amount of corner carry he gets midscreen with Enhanced Inferno Crusader. No character with corner carry like this is "bad" to me. 

As for why Japan have their opinion of him, there just aren't a lot of good Naoto players that actually know what to do with him. Kaqn and Kamikaze are really the only ones I know. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Off the top of my head, Plat and Tao got low 2A.

Naoto still looks like a cool character to me, and I assume that he's considered bad because the others are better, not because he got lots of faults or whatever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SoWL said:

Off the top of my head, Plat and Tao got low 2A.

Naoto still looks like a cool character to me, and I assume that he's considered bad because the others are better, not because he got lots of faults or whatever.

Oh I'm not saying he should be higher or anything, his spot seems justified considering that everyone else is just straight up better like you said. Despite everything I said, he is at the end of the day, basically another Ragna but with some additional tools that he doesn't have. I'd honestly put him at average or slightly above so if I'm honest. 

I just don't want people to get the wrong idea that he's not viable, because he is lol. That goes for all characters that seem to under-perform, just because a character places low in a list doesn't mean they're suddenly not viable to use. Even Terumi is viable to a certain extent in CPEX. I just don't want to get discouraged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

Oh I'm not saying he should be higher or anything, his spot seems justified considering that everyone else is just straight up better like you said. Despite everything I said, he is at the end of the day, basically another Ragna but with some additional tools that he doesn't have. I'd honestly put him at average or slightly above so if I'm honest. 

I just don't want people to get the wrong idea that he's not viable, because he is lol. That goes for all characters that seem to under-perform, just because a character places low in a list doesn't mean they're suddenly not viable to use. Even Terumi is viable to a certain extent in CPEX. I just don't want to get discouraged.

This depends on the setting honestly. If a character is low on a tier list, such as Naoto, they become less viable against higher level competition to the point it becomes impractical to use them. But if you're going to stick to netplay or fooling around with friends then that's fine since his imperfections can't be exploited that easily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, AchedSphinx said:

This depends on the setting honestly. If a character is low on a tier list, such as Naoto, they become less viable against higher level competition to the point it becomes impractical to use them. But if you're going to stick to netplay or fooling around with friends then that's fine since his imperfections can't be exploited that easily.

I mean, unless their tools are outright terrible (which Naoto's aren't as we went over), then its mostly dependent on the player. Look at how high up Jin is on that list, but he's generally regarded as the "jack of all trades" character who doesn't excel anywhere, so why is he so high up? Yea, he got buffed a lot this version, but its also the fact that he's played by some of the best players of the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, AchedSphinx said:

This depends on the setting honestly. If a character is low on a tier list, such as Naoto, they become less viable against higher level competition to the point it becomes impractical to use them. But if you're going to stick to netplay or fooling around with friends then that's fine since his imperfections can't be exploited that easily.

Just because there is a tier list, does not mean that characters at the lower end are impractical. There are plenty of games where even characters considered low tier have good tools and favourable matchups, and can still win games. Sure a list is one way to quantify it, but what's also important is how large the spread really is between top and bottom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, AchedSphinx said:

This depends on the setting honestly. If a character is low on a tier list, such as Naoto, they become less viable against higher level competition to the point it becomes impractical to use them. But if you're going to stick to netplay or fooling around with friends then that's fine since his imperfections can't be exploited that easily.

No, you have it backwards. If a character is low on the tier list "such as Naoto" (and the idea that he is "low" is pretty questionable) then they become less VISIBLE and they SEEM less good than they are because no one is playing them.

2 hours ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

I mean, unless their tools are outright terrible (which Naoto's aren't as we went over), then its mostly dependent on the player. Look at how high up Jin is on that list, but he's generally regarded as the "jack of all trades" character who doesn't excel anywhere, so why is he so high up? Yea, he got buffed a lot this version, but its also the fact that he's played by some of the best players of the game. 

That "Jack of all trades" qualifier is meaningless. Jin is just flat out better than a lot of the cast at a lot of things (His neutral is SICK. Only a couple of characters can contest him there, and unsurprisingly, they are also high tier).  the "jack of all trades" moniker means he has lots of tools, not necessarily that they aren't strong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MLSTRM said:

Just because there is a tier list, does not mean that characters at the lower end are impractical. There are plenty of games where even characters considered low tier have good tools and favourable matchups, and can still win games. Sure a list is one way to quantify it, but what's also important is how large the spread really is between top and bottom.

It's impractical because let's say Naoto has favorable match ups against the characters lower than him and five or so spots above. That's good. But in a tournament, for instance, people are using characters that are in the top ten, which is outside his range of viability. So using Naoto in this instance would make winning the tournament a lot more difficult than using someone in the top ten. The caveat I normally go with if you're going to use a lower tier character (talking bottom five here) is that you have to be twice as good as your opponent to win. Granted tier lists aren't an end all be all science. Some don't provide enough context as to why the creator feels this way or that about certain characters.

20 minutes ago, Airk said:

No, you have it backwards. If a character is low on the tier list "such as Naoto" (and the idea that he is "low" is pretty questionable) then they become less VISIBLE and they SEEM less good than they are because no one is playing them.

That's not backwards actually. The way it worked for this game is that Naoto was hyped up. Lots of people played him in the beginning since he was a new character. When those people were losing more than they liked, they stopped playing him because other characters have tools to deal with him effectively. On that previous tier list (poropicchi), they have Lambda at about upper mid-tier, meaning she's pretty good, yet there's little footage of her out there. Granted the videos we see count for a small percentage of the matches played, even so, she's considered really good despite her lack of visibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bottom end in this game have to fight an uphill battle. Still, the game seems reasonably close to balance from what I have seen. No one looks so good that they are untouchable like in some previous games lol. The top characters are neutral heavy but their best traits seem to be their answers to offensive tactics used by the opponent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Airk said:

That "Jack of all trades" qualifier is meaningless. Jin is just flat out better than a lot of the cast at a lot of things (His neutral is SICK. Only a couple of characters can contest him there, and unsurprisingly, they are also high tier).  the "jack of all trades" moniker means he has lots of tools, not necessarily that they aren't strong.

I never said they aren't strong lol.

Jin is still a rather average character overall, the only thing truly busted about him is maybe his j.2C with its busted ass hitbox. So no, only "high tiers" can't beat him. His movement, mixup, damage, etc etc are still rather average overall. Not saying he isn't strong,  but, once again, its the player more than likely. Because like I said, Jin is played by some of the best players in the game :V

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

good morning guys, i just wanted to ask on behalf of my friend: is there anything a person needs to know when transitioning to central fiction? he lives near a round 1 usa thats going to have it soon so any answers are apreciated

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SootiestGameo said:

good morning guys, i just wanted to ask on behalf of my friend: is there anything a person needs to know when transitioning to central fiction? he lives near a round 1 usa thats going to have it soon so any answers are apreciated

Well, if he's transitioning from CP, just a quick reminder of the new system changes and the changes to the characters he'll use should be enough. If he has time to check on some matchups it would be good too.

If he's not transitioning from CP, you kinda need to tell us what game  he's transitioning from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

I never said they aren't strong lol.

Jin is still a rather average character overall, the only thing truly busted about him is maybe his j.2C with its busted ass hitbox. So no, only "high tiers" can't beat him. His movement, mixup, damage, etc etc are still rather average overall. Not saying he isn't strong,  but, once again, its the player more than likely. Because like I said, Jin is played by some of the best players in the game :VH

Hmm, Jin's neutral is really good. I mean, really. His mid range game is one, if not the best in the game. At least I don't know anyone who has such good moves at 5C range at least.

I don't know about CF though. I heard he lost some gatlings and got nerfed here and there.

Naoto is pretty cool, and I also think he's more than viable. His damages are better than average and he has some nice stuff (rekkas, cross over, a very good cross up and anti airs). But his mixup game is poor. Hopefully his overhead is nice (good range and not obvious animation) because I think he has some trouble to find an opening. Bloodedge isn't THAT good imo. It's too slow to be as strong as it could. But it's a nice tool. I think he's a pretty well designed rushdown character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×