[CF] Blazblue CENTRAL FICTION: News and Gameplay Discussion

[BlackYakuzu94]

3 hours ago, Airk said:

I don't really care if I'm right, I just think that:

A) Evaluating tools on a case by case basis is meaningless

B) Jin has some very strong tools.  Maybe not "best in game" but seriously?  His 5C is faster, more active frames, and less recovery than Mu 5C.  I would seriously question calling one of those "Better"

 

As for "anyone who knows a thing or two about this game" it sounds like TD agrees with me. :P

Why is evaluating moves like that "meaningless" when that's exactly how the best players make decisions in neutral; how can anyone expect to make a move and not consider how their tools stack up against everyone else's. That is the very definition of "matchup experience" Jin's 5C also isn't supplemented by things like Steins, ya know those things that also help Mu. 

Looking at Jin's moves in a vacuum and just being like "Well he can perform better than X than Y, so clearly he must be good" ignores the fact the there are other characters on the roster that are better. You want oppressive pressure, go play against Valkenhayn, 1.0 Kokonoe, or SKD's Izayoi. That's what is actually oppressive. What Jin can do is paltry by comparison. The only move on that character that is truly "oppressive" is how his j.2C supplements his offense and the uses it has. 

And I want to make this absolutely clear, I am not saying Jin is not a strong character, but rather the degree to how strong he actually is based on the physical evidence within the game's data. If Jin performs better than other characters because of his tools, but there are also characters that can still perform better with their tools, guess what, that's the definition of average. 

For you to overestimate just how strong this character is despite evidence to the contrary, I'm led to assume that you struggle fighting against him a lot, which if I had to summarize is less how "strong" he is and more on A) you the player(unless every Jin player you fight is somehow amazing) and/or B) the character(s) you're using just have lesser tools than he does. 

[DJ_Blactricity]

Time out. You and Airk are arguing that jin's tools are strong compared to everyone vs. jin's tools are average compared to everyone and it's the player that makes him strong? You both agree he's a strong character, but as to why he's strong you disagree? How about both of you just agree to disagree?

[BlackYakuzu94]

I mean, I already said my piece so I don't really have much else to add. 

[Volt]

Guys, come on. Repeat with me.

Jin, while having some great tools, does not have the best for every situation. However, the fact that he has many tools that cover many situations makes him a strong character that can force other characters out of their comfort zone.

Is this agreeable or will this discussion continue?

[TD]

Wise words, gents. Let's move on.

[DJ_Blactricity]

TD, while being a free ass Rachel, is certainly not the worst. However, the fact that he has played Rachel for a while may lead to some salt.

Like if you agree.

[TD]

Agree, and your punishment will be forthright and severe.

[Axiomatic]

9 hours ago, DJ_Blactricity said:

TD, while being a free ass Rachel, is certainly not the worst. However, the fact that he has played Rachel for a while may lead to some salt.

Like if you agree.

I didn't know Dustloop had become Facebook...

(I know I'm no mod or anything, but drawing negative connotations to the fact someone plays a certain character seems out of place unless you're talking about someone capitalizing on a good/busted character's tools like CP vanilla Kokopuffs. Even then though, seems almost like a personal attack)

#FGCsjw

 

Quote

Guys, come on. Repeat with me.

Jin, while having some great tools, does not have the best for every situation. However, the fact that he has many tools that cover many situations makes him a strong character that can force other characters out of their comfort zone.

Contributing to the discussion, yeah Jin has always been the Swiss Army Knife of BB characters. Jin's "gimmick"/drive should be his versatility moreso than just his ice; the ice is more of an afterthought imo. (Ragna's drive should just be wakeup DP kappa)  You guys raised good points though, which was a good read.

4.5*/5*. 

[DJ_Blactricity]

2 hours ago, Axiomatic said:

I didn't know Dustloop had become Facebook...

(I know I'm no mod or anything, but drawing negative connotations to the fact someone plays a certain character seems out of place unless you're talking about someone capitalizing on a good/busted character's tools like CP vanilla Kokopuffs. Even then though, seems almost like a personal attack)

#FGCsjw

Loosen up. It's a joke.

As to Terumi's standing on the list. What do you guys think is the reason? Is it the changes to the character, system changes, players exploring him, or a combination of these things.

[oh no, he said]

Two words:

Standing

Overhead

(less reliance on the corner and the OD loops also helps tho)

[JustaMaskedFreak]

2 minutes ago, oh no, he said said:

Two words:

Standing

Overhead

(less reliance on the corner and the OD loops also helps tho)

This is a dream coming true to Terumi's Players!

Hail the Overhead Headbutt!

But yeah, despite the standing overhead, he got and unnecessary debuff in his 236D...

[heavymetalmixer]

4 minutes ago, JustaMaskedFreak said:

This is a dream coming true to Terumi's Players!

Hail the Overhead Headbutt!

But yeah, despite the standing overhead, he got and unnecessary debuff in his 236D...

And the buff to 6C, that better knockdown seems very useful.

[JustaMaskedFreak]

Just now, heavymetalmixer said:

And the buff to 6C, that better knockdown seems very useful.

My opinion, but I don't think so, CPEX knockdown get some unawared players and stop some rolls in time. It is my opinion about it. Yet I didn't played CF to judge. But still prefering CPEX 6C at this time.

[Myoro]

Terumi got a few cute things. Teru got better gains/damage/carry without burning meter with his new route stuff>3C>22C>236D(whiff)>5A>4D>j.C>dj.C>j.2D. j.2D while not being an overhead anymore is + again which gives him yet another option to repressure, while building meter and depriving you of defensive gains. 4D is quick, a drive jump cancelable on block so that's fun for obvious reasons (sucker even cancels out projectiles.)

The overhead is a great addition. It's got okay speed, but it goes into good damage, and cancels into distortions. 6D losing SMP is also quite fun.

There's also universal changes to consider. AF, CH/FC bonus, EA, all add to Terumi's pool of tools nicely. Quick CT's in particular are a boon for the character model, as I believe his frame advantage off of Teru's CTs has gone from -8 to -4 (ether in CF or CPEX) so it's something approaching a viable option right now.

But the real star of the show, is the distortion cancelable taunt. True quality.

[GunBlazer]

Just now, Myoro said:

But the real star of the show, is the distortion cancelable taunt. True quality.

I need proof of this... for reasons.

And it was CPEX that made CT usable.

[Myoro]

Then proof you shall have.

 

[BlackYakuzu94]

The only downside to his overhead is the fact that you need to burn meter to use it.

[heavymetalmixer]

45 minutes ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

The only downside to his overhead is the fact that you need to burn meter to use it.

To follow it, not to use it. These guys are talking about the 214C.

[Volt]

10 hours ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

The only downside to his overhead is the fact that you need to burn meter to use it.

Like that's really a problem for Terumi in the first place. At least it's better than "Whole screen glows in a blockstring and then comes the overhead." 

[Fame96]

You really gotta treat terumi's 214C similarly to jin's 6A (although imo jin's 6A seems harder to block but terumi's is safer on block) and as long as you are managing your meter well you shouldn't have issues not having the resources to follow it up in most cases.

[Narroo]

9 hours ago, Volt said:

Like that's really a problem for Terumi in the first place. At least it's better than "Whole screen glows in a blockstring and then comes the overhead." 

I wonder if there's any way for it to work so that the distortion effect only activates on hit?  It should be possible on a technical level given that Jin has non-distortion moves that burn meter; it should be easy enough to make it so that the game does not devote it's entire existence to telegraphing Terumi's attacks.

 

Heck, it even fit the character well; he'll barrage you with seemingly normal moves, when suddenly...it turns into a distortion! How devious!

 

I have no clue why Terumi's distortions work the way they do.

[heavymetalmixer]

1 hour ago, Narroo said:

I wonder if there's any way for it to work so that the distortion effect only activates on hit?  It should be possible on a technical level given that Jin has non-distortion moves that burn meter; it should be easy enough to make it so that the game does not devote it's entire existence to telegraphing Terumi's attacks.

 

Heck, it even fit the character well; he'll barrage you with seemingly normal moves, when suddenly...it turns into a distortion! How devious!

 

I have no clue why Terumi's distortions work the way they do.

Or we could just use RC.

[Poultrygeist]

The solution is clear.  Give Terumi force breaks. 

[BlackYakuzu94]

22 hours ago, heavymetalmixer said:

To follow it, not to use it. These guys are talking about the 214C.

That's what I meant.

12 hours ago, Volt said:

Like that's really a problem for Terumi in the first place. At least it's better than "Whole screen glows in a blockstring and then comes the overhead." 

Yea, but what if its blocked? Gotta commit to that Super :V

[TD]

it might have a delay period where you can confirm or not into super.