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[CF] Blazblue CENTRAL FICTION: News and Gameplay Discussion

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4 hours ago, Monarch said:

Short range rushdown characters like Jin or Noel would have the most difficulty getting in on Nine, but also the best chance of keeping her locked down once they're able to establish their pressure. Their most effective means of getting in on Nine is to rush her down when she has no spells currently stocked, as that puts her in a position where she can't use any spells or her reversal, leaving her near defenseless to close range pressure. But this means you would have to avoid being hit by one of Nine's normals, which is easier said than done given her range. A big part of doing that lies within your neutral game: anti-airing properly, and staying out of Nine's normal range while looking for an opening to approach her that wouldn't put you in danger of being poked by one of her normals, starting her spell pressure game. It may sound difficult, but even if she does start her spell game: Nine's spell stock is erased after she uses a spell, so you have multiple chances throughout a round to find that opening.

She doesn't need to have a SPELL stocked to use her DP, she just needs an element stocked. That basically means "she has pushed a button";  Her options for getting out of pressure are better than any character that controls space the way she does.

1 hour ago, Monarch said:

Long range zoning characters like Nu and Lambda have some trouble with Nine as well, since her omnidash can make zoning her difficult due to its invul frames. And since they lack a metterless reversal, it would be tougher to escape her pressure than it would be for a short range/rushdown character to. But their are definitely tools in place for both types of characters to win the matchup, the sucess of the matchup all depends on your knowledge of the character.

So short ranged characters struggle, and long ranged character struggle... hmmm.  It's almost like this character is dumb. :P

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Well, Im just happy there IS a way and chance for other characters to beat her, and the video examples helped open it up to me. I thought this kokonoe 1.0 all over again....

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All this talk about a character that most of us haven't even touched... Well the console is coming in a few months. We'll see if she gets patched or not. I just can't wait to go nuts wih Arakune (・ω・)

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In my opinion, Nine can get really predictable once you start getting used of her. Because, think about this: her dash have invul frames, but the position she warps is always the same. In case of the zoners, it is a matter of reaction. Another thing is her spell list. People won't use all of her spells against certain match ups (Citrine) or because it takes take to deal the blow (Nephrite, Uvarovite and Morganite, I guess). I don't recall some other spells, like Heliodor, Amethyst, Celestite and Andradite (sorry about it), but I can clearly say she isn't broken. She is powerful, but with flaws.

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1 hour ago, Argent Zero said:

All this talk about a character that most of us haven't even touched... Well the console is coming in a few months. We'll see if she gets patched or not. I just can't wait to go nuts wih Arakune (・ω・)

It is highly improbable for them to patch the game before console release, so yes we will deal with full power... Well everything. Have fun playing Arakune while I'm just chilling with Nu, Terumi and Bullet lol.

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Airk, a spell is an element. They are one and the same. Even though her level 1 spells generally won't seem much play without more elements/sea moss gate/dp.

 

look, nine is a very unpredictable character movement wise and even spells wise because you never know when she's going to go with a wind spell and do uvarovite instead of a water spell into kunzite from 2 fire elements, for example - putting opponents in a strike/delayed strike mixup situation. Zoners will have problems because a move that should have hit doesn't because lolteleport; seriously, she can go apeshit with random teleports and solidly avoid a decent amount of zoning, which definitely cripples characters like Rachel and puts chars like lambda in high recovery for punishment.

 

and her defense is good - with ea, counter assault, dp with stock, and teleport, she usually will have one of these options if she's using her resources wisely.

 

but she is still momentum based. She NEEDS spells. And although her neutral is amazing, it doesn't make her approach easy. Without a spell she only has navy pressure to really halt people, and teleports with normals. Notice how matchups involving nine tend to be really slow and calculated in neutral as opposed to fast paced aggression from both parties. The goal would be finding out which spells the player prefers compared to the best ones in that matchup, and how the nine likes to dash around. The good thing is that she is rather slow, so dashing in and staying just outside her 5b range is not a bad idea at all. 

 

she has everything but the player really has to be good at high level. Once she uses a spell, and the beginning of each round, she is actually really vulnerable and that is the prime opportunity to get her to teleport how you want her - throwing a lot of horizontal space projectiles for instance might get her into the air and pushing toward you - then you get her.

its going to be hard fighting her definitely but she still is not on kokonoe' level. Worry about arakune. That's the real hidden monster at the moment.

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4 hours ago, JustaMaskedFreak said:

In my opinion, Nine can get really predictable once you start getting used of her. Because, think about this: her dash have invul frames, but the position she warps is always the same. In case of the zoners, it is a matter of reaction. Another thing is her spell list. People won't use all of her spells against certain match ups (Citrine) or because it takes take to deal the blow (Nephrite, Uvarovite and Morganite, I guess). I don't recall some other spells, like Heliodor, Amethyst, Celestite and Andradite (sorry about it), but I can clearly say she isn't broken. She is powerful, but with flaws.

I wouldn't call her predictable on anything outside kunzite spam. Yes she has limited teleport space but being able to teleport back and forth and up and down puts her on amane, kune and izanami levels of evasiveness. 

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7 hours ago, TD said:

I wouldn't call her predictable on anything outside kunzite spam. Yes she has limited teleport space but being able to teleport back and forth and up and down puts her on amane, kune and izanami levels of evasiveness. 

How does her teleport work, anyway? I've seen a lot of videos where it seems like she teleports, and starts to appear, and then teleports again, avoiding any attempt to punish the original teleport.  Is she vulnerable in there anywhere, because if she is, it seems like an awful small window.  Or is it only after the second teleport that you can do anything?

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Just now, Airk said:

How does her teleport work, anyway? I've seen a lot of videos where it seems like she teleports, and starts to appear, and then teleports again, avoiding any attempt to punish the original teleport.  Is she vulnerable in there anywhere, because if she is, it seems like an awful small window.  Or is it only after the second teleport that you can do anything?

Teleports are her forward- (and back-) dash(es). After the initial motion is complete, you can input any direction twice and she'll teleport there. Something like: 66>88 or j.44>22

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1 minute ago, GunBlazer said:

Teleports are her forward- (and back-) dash(es). After the initial motion is complete, you can input any direction twice and she'll teleport there. Something like: 66>88 or j.44>22

That's not really what I'm trying to figure out though.

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7 hours ago, TD said:

Airk, a spell is an element. They are one and the same. Even though her level 1 spells generally won't seem much play without more elements/sea moss gate/dp.

 

look, nine is a very unpredictable character movement wise and even spells wise because you never know when she's going to go with a wind spell and do uvarovite instead of a water spell into kunzite from 2 fire elements, for example - putting opponents in a strike/delayed strike mixup situation. Zoners will have problems because a move that should have hit doesn't because lolteleport; seriously, she can go apeshit with random teleports and solidly avoid a decent amount of zoning, which definitely cripples characters like Rachel and puts chars like lambda in high recovery for punishment.

 

and her defense is good - with ea, counter assault, dp with stock, and teleport, she usually will have one of these options if she's using her resources wisely.

 

but she is still momentum based. She NEEDS spells. And although her neutral is amazing, it doesn't make her approach easy. Without a spell she only has navy pressure to really halt people, and teleports with normals. Notice how matchups involving nine tend to be really slow and calculated in neutral as opposed to fast paced aggression from both parties. The goal would be finding out which spells the player prefers compared to the best ones in that matchup, and how the nine likes to dash around. The good thing is that she is rather slow, so dashing in and staying just outside her 5b range is not a bad idea at all. 

 

she has everything but the player really has to be good at high level. Once she uses a spell, and the beginning of each round, she is actually really vulnerable and that is the prime opportunity to get her to teleport how you want her - throwing a lot of horizontal space projectiles for instance might get her into the air and pushing toward you - then you get her.

its going to be hard fighting her definitely but she still is not on kokonoe' level. Worry about arakune. That's the real hidden monster at the moment.

I agree with everything you said, except Nine being momentum based. You are 100% correct that she needs spells to win, as that is the core of her gameplay, but when I think momentum based I think Kagura would be the best example as such. He can wreck people hard with his momentum, but he can get wrecked just AS hard by the opponent getting out of his pressure, OR not being to start his momentum to begin with. Azrael and Bullet is another example of this but I think Kagura is the best example of such. 

 

Well, with Nine, it is TRUE that her momentum is powerful, to say she is based off of it is kind of a stretch. I have seen nine players who lose their momentum in some way shape or form, but due to her neutral, they play safe and wait for the next chance to get in on the opponent. However Like you said her approach isn't easy at all and usage of her normals and mobility in neutral is what separates the amazing Nine players from the rest. This is definitely true. I just don't think Nine BASED off of the momentum she gets, I just think that is one of her advantages as a character.

 

I would honestly say Nine and Arakune are around the same level of strength though, either way however those 2 characters are really strong at the moment.

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Just now, Airk said:

That's not really what I'm trying to figure out though.

Sorry about that. AFAIK, Nine must wait until recovery to act, but is invincible during both motions, albeit not frame 1 invincibility.

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Yeah; Nine strikes me as way LESS Momentum based than most, because she actually has a pretty easy time getting out of pressure if she has an element stocked.  And you have to f-up neutral really bad to not to have that.  And she can play boring neutral practically forever if she wants to.

I'm also not sure why people keep talking about her approach. She controls so much of the screen that there's no reason for her to approach.  FFS, she has high low mixup at like 2/3rds screen length.  Why would she approach? All she needs to do is play neutral for a bit, get a hit, and go.  The only time she'd need to approach is if she's down and running out of time.

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Just now, Airk said:

That's not really what I'm trying to figure out though.

Sorry about that. AFAIK, Nine must wait until recovery to act, but is invincible during both motions, albeit not frame 1 invincibility.

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7 minutes ago, Airk said:

That's not really what I'm trying to figure out though.

It's pretty much how you see it and the conclusion you came to. If she teleports twice its very difficult to punish the in between. Results seem to be gotten from predicting the second teleport location and having a hitbox there. But if she teleports once she's out of recovery and you're getting punished. On the other hand, one teleport isn't moving her very far or giving her a lot of time to think. It's all mind games.

 

it also looks like the second teleport is faster than if you just teleported one time and then teleported again. I'm not sure how safe it is to say if the follow up tele is faster than normal tele though. That is, until we get the frames.

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Just now, GunBlazer said:

Sorry about that. AFAIK, Nine must wait until recovery to act, but is invincible during both motions, albeit not frame 1 invincibility.

I'm still confused. Yes, I understand that on ONE dash, she's not frame 1 invuln.  But if she double-dashes, is there any vulnerability between them?  Does dash #1 fully complete and then dash #2 has it's 3 or whatever frames of actual vulnerability before she teleports again, or does she just start to appear and then cancel into another teleport and stay invuln the whole time?

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2 minutes ago, Airk said:

I'm still confused. Yes, I understand that on ONE dash, she's not frame 1 invuln.  But if she double-dashes, is there any vulnerability between them?  Does dash #1 fully complete and then dash #2 has it's 3 or whatever frames of actual vulnerability before she teleports again, or does she just start to appear and then cancel into another teleport and stay invuln the whole time?

To my knowledge, if she double dashes, the second dash has full invul and you can't hit her out of it. Seems pretty annoying.

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5 minutes ago, DivineTempest said:

I agree with everything you said, except Nine being momentum based. You are 100% correct that she needs spells to win, as that is the core of her gameplay, but when I think momentum based I think Kagura would be the best example as such. He can wreck people hard with his momentum, but he can get wrecked just AS hard by the opponent getting out of his pressure, OR not being to start his momentum to begin with. Azrael and Bullet is another example of this but I think Kagura is the best example of such. 

 

Well, with Nine, it is TRUE that her momentum is powerful, to say she is based off of it is kind of a stretch. I have seen nine players who lose their momentum in some way shape or form, but due to her neutral, they play safe and wait for the next chance to get in on the opponent. However Like you said her approach isn't easy at all and usage of her normals and mobility in neutral is what separates the amazing Nine players from the rest. This is definitely true. I just don't think Nine BASED off of the momentum she gets, I just think that is one of her advantages as a character.

 

I would honestly say Nine and Arakune are around the same level of strength though, either way however those 2 characters are really strong at the moment.

Ok, because of her decent level of defense I suppose she could bust out of pressure even in her most vulnerable state, even if it's only once or twice. It goes without saying though, a character with a situational dp may struggle where other characters won't, which is of course obvious.

 

but then there's those teleports giving her unique teleport options... This character really changes the game with how good and free those teles are

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Just now, DivineTempest said:

To my knowledge, if she double dashes, the second dash has full invul and you can't hit her out of it. Seems pretty annoying.

Yuk; I mean, I guess even if she were vulnerable for 3 frames or something that'd be a pretty ridiculous window to try to punish, but full invuln just seems mean.

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Just now, DivineTempest said:

To my knowledge, if she double dashes, the second dash has full invul and you can't hit her out of it. Seems pretty annoying.

It's worse than I imagined...

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40 minutes ago, DivineTempest said:

Lol imagine Azrael with Nine's dashes XD

It was the first thing I've imagined, but with Nine's having a longer range of dash

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Nine looks really strong right now, does she have a weakness that people can proactively exploit? Because situational DP is exploitable and all, but it looks like you've got to be relentless with your pressure and not let her press a single button or it doesn't work. Her normals flat-out body people like Terumi and Naoto, her teleports mess with Lambda and Rachel, she's not Kagura at mid-range either.

Is there a way for people to take her out of her comfort zone?

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