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[CF] Blazblue CENTRAL FICTION: News and Gameplay Discussion

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2 hours ago, Steve-Fiction said:

I know some are tired of it, but this is definitely a discussion, and it broke out because of Mai's new outfit, which was posted on the Central Fiction website, so it's Central Fiction related.

Kinda nitpicky, but this isn't true; the Variable Heart news was posted to the BB portal site, not the CF one specifically.

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On 5/12/2016 at 10:14 PM, Volt said:

However, for the supposed finale of Ragna's story, there are too many plot points that are popping up and trying to get playable novel reps for all novels and sidestuff won't help to wrap everything nicely.

That's my issue with the new characters, really.  I know that it's a fighting game, but if you're going to bill a nice, big, intricate, story mode to the thing, at least see it through properly.  While there may be story arcs after the current one, they do need to stop introducing characters at this point and just finish the current plot.  Adding new characters, especially important new characters out of nowhere at the end is usually just bad writing.

Now, if they added new characters to the roster, but not the plot, I'd be fine with that.  If Es's and Mai's plot was just her surviving Armageddon, or something, I'd be fine with that.  (Although really, Es's story is so involved it would probably be best to be completely separate from the current story/continuity.)

19 hours ago, Volt said:

I know they're intentionally pulling all of the sidestories to the main canon, and I think this is the right choice not only to finish the plot, but to compensate the lack of an official translation to everything. What I don't understand is how they actually plan to finish Ragna's story for good at the same time they pull out a bunch of plot points.

This is a fighting game, so a protagonist change to follow what CP started without effectively ending Ragna's reason to jump into the fray would be enough. (Kagura's involvement springs to mind, he and Kokonoe were basically deuteragonists for the whole thing, not to mention the whole Six Heroes route.) Instead, we got a single story route focused on Ragna. That's trippy.

Hm, honestly I think they're pulling in side characters not because they want a big finale, but just to sell more units and appeal to the visual novel fans.  Also, the developers may like them personally.

13 hours ago, Luminos564 said:

Sweet mercy, no. Anyone but them. I'd rather import and stare at kanji I have no working knowledge of than go through them again.

By the way, does anyone know if there's a planned BB event or such at some point in the near future? It seems that since the Famitsu article that showed Es, we've been mostly quiet (Variable Heart and Mai's super...sensual attire, notwithstanding).

You know that's exactly what's going to happen!  After BB didn't take the west by storm, localization turned into an afterthought and ArcSys just so happens to find them...strangely compelling as a localization service.

 

 

Oh yeah, someone posted about Bullet, but I can't find the quote.  Here's my thought about Bullet: She doesn't add much to the game.  She's a fighting game character first and foremost, but her style wasn't really a needed addition.  Meanwhile, her visuals and thematics mostly fell flat and she added nothing to the plot.  That's why she get's flak; she added nothing to the game.

Amane is also a superfluous addition.  The plot didn't need him, even if they force him to be important.  On the other hand, he added something unique to the game with his fighting style, visuals, and personality.  So Amane get's a pass for being a good addition to the roster as a fighter.  That's the difference between Bullet and Amane. 

Many of us are expecting the Visual Novel Characters to fall into the Bullet camp, where from a game mechanic perspective they add nothing that wasn't there before (in an already large cast) and just make the well advertised plot of the game (which the game does emphases) a more convoluted mess that it already is.  Combine that with a healthy does of "fan service," which this game probably already has too much of, you get a recipe for arguments.

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Except Es's case far more important also Mai and naoto are gonna be like Celica and Kagura from the last game.

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9 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

You don't seem to realize just how much smaller Jubei is than everyone else. The story sprites make him look a lot bigger than he really is since they are so zoomed in but in reality he is tiny. For comparison, Rachel and Carl are two of the shortest characters at 4'9" and 4'8.7"respectively and they still need hitbox cheats to make them taller (Rachel carries Nago in umbrella form above her head and Carl has a giant top-hat). In comparison, Jubei is 4'03", at least a foot shorter than the rest of the cast (minus those with hitbox cheats). Unless Jubei had Ookami sticking to his back, the sheath would make absolutely no difference.

I'll just put this screenshot here :

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

As I said, the size in a fighting game doesn't matter. They can cheat the hitbox however they want without making look silly.

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4 minutes ago, Zouf said:

I'll just put this screenshot here :

 

hqdefault.jpg

 

As I said, the size in a fighting game doesn't matter. They can cheat the hitbox however they want without making look silly.

You know everyone hate the Nekos exactly because how small they are?

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2 minutes ago, Zouf said:

I know, but their hitbox isn't what it looks like, far from it.

 

That's exactly the problem. You can't see the hitbox. Players should be able to see how close they need to be to hit the opponent at a glance. For every current character the player can go "this attack touches the oppenent's sprite so I know it will hit." This is especially important for aerial approaches where you can hit the top of the hitbox. If you can't tell how tall Jubei's hitbox is it becomes a guessing game that will make the players miss way too often.

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It's not a guessing game, it's learn the matchup game.

And do you really think every hitbox make sense in the game? Are you serious?

Spoiler

 jn310_02.png

 

This is a throw in BB.

 

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I'm sure you would enjoy playing against Jubei if your 5B whiffed on him even when he's standing, right, Zouf? No, you wouldn't. It would be annoying as shit, to the point you'd want him removed from the game. Small characters are a balancing hell (as long as they're actually good, which Neco-Arc isn't for GOOD REASON)

Invisible hitbox above his head? Why not give him an armour/costume/whatever that makes him as tall/taller than Carl? Why would you fix it in such a dumb (and lazy) way when you can just design his sprite to actually be normal height.

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2 hours ago, Toxin45 said:

Except Es's case far more important also Mai and naoto are gonna be like Celica and Kagura from the last game.

We know nothing about the contents of the story mode yet you make dismissive pronouncements about its contents. Might I suggest you reserve judgement until the game is out?

1 hour ago, heavymetalmixer said:

You know everyone hate the Nekos exactly because how small they are?

Yeah, I found Neco Arc being used as an argument in favor of the inclusion of Jubei in his current size really weird since people loathe her for that very reason since normal combos don't work on her. I could see this argument being made by someone who hates Jubei, since that would ensure that pretty soon everyone else would hate him as well.

56 minutes ago, Zouf said:

It's not a guessing game, it's learn the matchup game.

Does the fact that counter-intuitive hitboxes exist mean that counter-intuitive hitboxes are a good thing? I'd say that they're not.

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32 minutes ago, Zouf said:

It's not a guessing game, it's learn the matchup game.

And do you really think every hitbox make sense in the game? Are you serious?

  Hide contents

 jn310_02.png

 

This is a throw in BB.

 

Exactly how much of a dick do you think the developers are to their players? Learning a matchup by knowing a character's attacks and strategies is one thing but expecting everyone to adjust their way of thinking and remember exactly how tall the hitbox is without the slightest visual indication (and no doubt would be a different invisible height when he is crouching, jumping or even in each attack animation) is stupid. The essence of fair play in any video game is being able to see the range of an attack and judge by sight (video games are a visual medium after all) if it will hit so you can realize the fault is your own if the attack doesn't hit, not being dicked over by cheap fake difficulty.

An attack hitbox is very different from a character's hurtbox. The range of the throw makes perfect sense with the animation. It covers half of Jin in case the opponent is right on top of him and extends to cover the range in front of his hand where the opponent can stand and be touched by the hand. In general the hitboxes aren't perfect but you can get a pretty good estimate of every other character based on the sprites and animations, which is much less egregious than an invisible area twice his height that hurts him for some reason.

All of this is before considering Jubei's fighting style itself. Jubei tends to crouch while fighting meaning he will often be even shorter than he already is. He would also have a much smaller sprite which results in harder to see attack animations that would be more difficult to distinguish and counter (he'd probably have very little reach as well). Good luck distinguishing his low attacks when all of them only reach the character's waist at best. And before you say Melty Blood did it so it's fine, consider that Mori himself is one of the people who doesn't like that "solution." Instead of trying to justify a major flaw that the developers themselves refuse to leave as is, maybe you could consider realistic solutions that put him at the very least close to Platinum's height.

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I'm just saying you're making it the first world problem while it's not even remotely as big of an issue as it could.

This is a game that has true unblockables, unreactable mixups, OHKO combos, safe DPs and other shits. So an invisible hitbox inside this list is the least serious matter, as people can adapt to it very easily compared to the rest.

The reason Mori gave is a joke, and there are so many possibilities to counter it it's not even a problem to begin with.

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1 hour ago, Ogiga99 said:

Exactly how much of a dick do you think the developers are to their players? Learning a matchup by knowing a character's attacks and strategies is one thing but expecting everyone to adjust their way of thinking and remember exactly how tall the hitbox is without the slightest visual indication (and no doubt would be a different invisible height when he is crouching, jumping or even in each attack animation) is stupid. The essence of fair play in any video game is being able to see the range of an attack and judge by sight (video games are a visual medium after all) if it will hit so you can realize the fault is your own if the attack doesn't hit, not being dicked over by cheap fake difficulty.

An attack hitbox is very different from a character's hurtbox. The range of the throw makes perfect sense with the animation. It covers half of Jin in case the opponent is right on top of him and extends to cover the range in front of his hand where the opponent can stand and be touched by the hand. In general the hitboxes aren't perfect but you can get a pretty good estimate of every other character based on the sprites and animations, which is much less egregious than an invisible area twice his height that hurts him for some reason.

All of this is before considering Jubei's fighting style itself. Jubei tends to crouch while fighting meaning he will often be even shorter than he already is. He would also have a much smaller sprite which results in harder to see attack animations that would be more difficult to distinguish and counter (he'd probably have very little reach as well). Good luck distinguishing his low attacks when all of them only reach the character's waist at best. And before you say Melty Blood did it so it's fine, consider that Mori himself is one of the people who doesn't like that "solution." Instead of trying to justify a major flaw that the developers themselves refuse to leave as is, maybe you could consider realistic solutions that put him at the very least close to Platinum's height.

I agree with pretty much everything except Jubei having short reach. Even holding Musashi with his mouth, it's still almost as long as Yukianesa, so he'd have good reach and still would be hard to hit.

Wasn't expecting for the tails to barely reach Platinum's head though. He'd really need something like Hihiro... Sword or freaking Ookami strapped to his back to reach Plat's staff. But it wouldn't make a lot of sense for him to just pack a huge sword (Hihi-thingy) in its awakened form and just let it hang. Smash Ganon confirmed? Don't think so.

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2 hours ago, Daedron said:

Invisible hitbox above his head? Why not give him an armour/costume/whatever that makes him as tall/taller than Carl? Why would you fix it in such a dumb (and lazy) way when you can just design his sprite to actually be normal height.

Because Mori doesn't want Jubei to suddenly wear the armor since he's been donning his cat-hood up until now. Zedar's got the link. And as someone else already pointed out, even with the armor, it is not enough as he is still shorter than either Carl or Platinum.

4 hours ago, Narroo said:

You know that's exactly what's going to happen!  After BB didn't take the west by storm, localization turned into an afterthought and ArcSys just so happens to find them...strangely compelling as a localization service.

Ayyy.

Thanks for that. Hadn't laughed like that in a while. Well, as long as ASW doesn't suddenly find them curiously attractive then I guess I can stomach it. Or if Strangely Compelling suddenly starts being, y'know, good at their job. I'd take either or.

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I don't have a horse in this race, as I only got started on BB early this year, so I don't really get the history behind why Jubei is such a hotly-demanded character.

But don't you think that if the designers really wanted to make Jubei playable at some point, bearing height considerations in mind, they might have designed him to simply be taller from the get go?

Looking at the current circumstances, they seem more intent on keeping him as a background character with an advisory role, what with his severe injuries and all.

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You know, I suppose Jubei is supposed to be a monster cat, and they have shape shifting properties, don't they?  Maybe he'll just puff himself up like a blowfish.

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1 hour ago, Narroo said:

You know, I suppose Jubei is supposed to be a monster cat, and they have shape shifting properties, don't they?  Maybe he'll just puff himself up like a blowfish.

That'd be the stupidest, jankiest stuff. I like it! :v:

 

But guys, what if they just say "screw it" and make him just tall enough for most 5A's not whiff if he stands?

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13 hours ago, Volt said:

That'd be the stupidest, jankiest stuff. I like it! :v:

 

But guys, what if they just say "screw it" and make him just tall enough for most 5A's not whiff if he stands?

Nothing wrong with that at all, in my eyes. Though Mori's also kind of full of shit if he feels like Jubei shouldn't just be wearing armor when Makoto, Tsubaki, and Terumi just suddenly, drastically changed outfits for their playable appearances.

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1 minute ago, TekkamanArk said:

Tsubaki, and Terumi just suddenly, drastically changed outfits for their playable appearances.

Terumi's design was straight from the PS novels.

I too was very disappointed that I was unable to play as Tsubaki in her school uniform even after she graduated. Damn you, Mori!

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I'm sorry, if I am late for this Jubei playable discussion, but only to let my opinion here, I want to say this:

1 - If I recall, he is the only character whose Nox we know less about and the only Nox user who isn't playable (IF you mention Take-Mikazuchi, you can consider Nine and Izanami). For me, it makes no sense have a important weapon in the lore which we don't know that many abilities, unlike Hakumen, Jin, Noel... I do want him in because of that and, depending on his gameplay, to play with him.

2 - About being short. *sigh* Really? Zouf showed us a size from a character that is small. If you complain about this showed game not being that famous (honestly I don't recall that game, sorry), pick up Soul Calibur IV, where it has Yoda, which is freaking small in-game too. It can be a pain to hit such characters, but not impossible (at least in BB isn't that impossible with those hitboxes/hurtboxes) and you can balance it putting a low amount of HP.

3 - We don't know anything about any more characters in console now. So, there is no need to continue complaining a lot about his lack in the game. IF the game were already released in console, wtih all DLCs announced and no Jubei, it is fine to complain about it, and, probably, necessary.

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On 5/13/2016 at 0:57 PM, Luminos564 said:

Well, as long as ASW doesn't suddenly find them curiously attractive then I guess I can stomach it. Or if Strangely Compelling suddenly starts being, y'know, good at their job. I'd take either or.

Well, there's a topic in Zepp that someone was curious about, I just put my 2 cents in. At least they do good work on other non-ASW titles. (Examples: Phantom Breaker BG and Constant C), but ASW titles themselves are another story, also, they already did with Xrd Sign and Revelator, so...your mileage may vary.

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