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[CF] Blazblue CENTRAL FICTION: News and Gameplay Discussion

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All this talk about netplay and you forgot one little thing: What about those players (like me) that always try to play Netplay like if they were playing offline?

I know I get wrecked a lot because I don't like anything "Netplay-exclusive", but doesn't this count as "trying to improve"?

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Airk, they could make 5B combo directly into 6C on non-CH, and reverse prorate, and make it unblockable and you'd still probably find a reason to say Tsubaki's bad

 

also i didn't mean it in a "tsubaki sucks forever because of design" way, i meant it in a "tsubaki will always suck in airk's eyes ayy lmao" way

Science has already proved you wrong, since during CS2, my only complaint was "Stop asking to nerf her, you idiots." :)

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@skd Sorry for focusing on only one section of your post but I think this part really does warrant its own discussion.  What do you think is a good solution for the problem?  Obviously if everyone played offline things would be a lot easier but it can't be that simple, right?  What do you think are the leading problems?  I don't think BB is an unpopular game (at least not extremely so) so is it an issue of a lot of BB players don't have the time/money/interest to travel and play?  As you said the top US players are doing fine but the mid/intermediate/low are not so what can be done about this to get a more active offline BB scene in parts of the country that aren't the usual?  For instance I live in Texas, and while BB isn't nonexistent here and we do have some local players who are considered somewhat notable, it isn't a big game like it is in other parts of the US.  With that in mind, what should I do short of just continue to bring my setup to casuals every week and the occasional visit to a tournament when I can afford it?  Because (and I do not mean this as an insult at all) if the top players are the only ones getting better then BB's future may be doomed to be stagnated because the scene will be limited to only the CURRENT top players getting anywhere with no new faces or rising stars showing up.  What can be done about this?  Not a rhetorical question, I really want to know because I enjoy this game and I want it to grow and get the support it deserves and a better offline presence.

So after re-reading SKD's post, I'd say just talk with those players at your scene; get to know them, discuss actual legit tech and get their opinions on they play the game compared to how you play and just try to apply it to your own game plan. Take what you learned offline and try to thinking about how its affected online and begin developing your skills like that.

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So after re-reading SKD's post, I'd say just talk with those players at your scene; get to know them, discuss actual legit tech and get their opinions on they play the game compared to how you play and just try to apply it to your own game plan. Take what you learned offline and try to thinking about how its affected online and begin developing your skills like that.

That was a great post.  I've been wanting to get to a local scene for years for a number of games, now including BB, but don't have a car to get to San Carlos.  I wish the scene was in big, public transit-friendly cities like San Francisco or Oakland (I did organize a Skullgirls meetup in Oakland once).  But maybe it comes down to getting a ride, taxi, traveling for hours, whatever- for the one day a month it meets.  On-topic for CF, I just got CPE recently, but am interested in the new game.  I should be busy w/CPE for quite a while though. :thumbu:

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What do you suggest to do in order to improve? Like what habits should be made or what should people realize to overall become better/solid players? Gauging skill can be difficult at times, and finding out what you should do next in terms of improving as a player can be confusing to me sometimes as well, which is why I ask. 

The latter half of my post was essentially a suggestion of what to do lol, I kind of just brought it to light before talking about it.

The issue is that there is just no way around having to be very critical of your play, moreso than the players who end up at jp midlevel. You can't get around the fact that you need to really learn how to teach yourself in order to grow, and thats one of the major differences between here and jp. A lot of them are kind of "inducted" into playing the game relatively well, just because they have an accessible venue for good play. While this is really helpful for growing easily, the fact of the matter is that we don't have an environment with accessible good play.

And yeah, maybe there is a bit of talent behind it but it isn't like having the environment is make or break, as a handful of us can go pretty toe to toe with japan. Honestly, the kind of thinking that I am trying to highlight as vital to improve our midlevel is pretty much what every truly strong player, us OR japan has done. 

 

Allow me to quote myself a couple of times:

"Most of our strong players already have ideas of how the game is supposed to be played, they had the right exposure, maybe they were critical enough to get to that point without as much exposure even if they did come from netplay...

the reality of our "accessible" environment for midlevel players is that you have to push yourself through midlevel to high level understanding on your own.

You don't have the environment to SHOW you the right things unless you happen to live in a nice place."

 

There really isn't any way around it. As far as things that you should be doing, you should be questioning literally everything you do and the reasoning behind it. Why did I decide to do nothing? Everything is deliberately reasoned at high level. Like, you need to justify everything as well as possible.

When I say the midlevel is better in japan, while it CAN be an issue of implementation, they almost always play the game in a more developed way, not necessarily because they are just thinking more, but because they are forced into playing the game in a smarter way to win (because if you play the game smarter, you are going to do better ofc).

I don't really know why gauging skill has to come into this. Like, if someone says something you can think about it's worth lol? If you don't know who to listen to (even if you do) take a shot at verifying the information for yourself. You want to understanding the reasoning that goes into those ideas. The reasoning that goes into X inputs, the facts the constitute those reasons. The structure of a knockdown, why you'd want to "respect" in a situation etc etc. It's risk/reward, and ultimately you are just adhere to what is most logical.

How do you figure out what is logical? As a very barebones example, i'm gonna press a button in neutral while trying to hit someone, but i can't be sure that it will hit. Justifying what you want to do, maybe by how it works with other tools, maybe because you are not likely to get whiff punished at all if you happened to whiff, you have the life total or resources to support a risk of that level. Figure out the reasons why or why not. Weigh them against eachother. The answers are not hidden or things that people happen to magically stumble upon, it is literally what makes the most sense.

Above any opinions there are truths of the game, and ultimately a ton of the developed game boils down to numbers, and I am sorry but developed fighting games are just that, games of numbers. You have 95% of the numbers you need right there in the dustloop wiki.

One of the other issues I take that I am attempting to dispel by writing a post like this are misconceptions about the nature of the game and competition, which is why I am so hard on talking about things like netplay never being an acceptable substitute (yes, even a consistent 4 bar will not be the same). Ideas about what people should respect or the practical ranges of human reaction at high level that you should reason around. If your idea of the game is not one where the most justified options weighed against each other and implemented well SHOULD win, then you have a misconception about the nature of the game. Those are things that you also need to make sure you don't have, and those are things that I have explicitly said because frankly, that is a rut that a bunch of people are stuck in.

It actually isn't any more than me telling people that if they want to be good, they'll need to /look harder/ and be more logical. Unfortunately there is a bigger hurdle in the US, and that separates our median level and their median level. Thats IT. This is not a PSA about like "everyone get good!". I am saying this is 100% what it takes to get there.

I want to stress, again, that figuring out the game is not some kind of obscure path with no direction. The direction is literally "what makes the most sense" and the post is about what you should base your sense around if you want to grow and why. If you have a question about something that you can't / don't want to figure out on your own (or have no idea where to look or how to figure it out) you ask a question like..."what is usually considered reactable?" or "why do people get hit by x if its so slow?" or even "How would I go about figuring out why people get hit by something?".

"They just get hit" is a reason, a particularly bad one that if you think is as logically justified as many of the implementations floating around at high level, you are severely underestimating how deep the game is (and your competitors at a high level, lmao) and also you are basing that reason on something of which you have no verifiable basis, or maybe you just came to a ridiculous conclusion. Aka, you are being illogical.

Approach it reasonably, and make sure you are taking all necessary and potentially relevant informations into consideration without making bad assumptions. Yes, come up with assumptions, but TEST them and understand JUST what the results mean. Sure, you might even need to question your basic, assumed truths. But the game gives you all the tools to verify and explore what you need to in order to come to a solid, correct understanding.

Everyone thinks they do this to some degree, but as i said before, I am saying /do it more/. There are really no other answers.

 

@skd Sorry for focusing on only one section of your post but I think this part really does warrant its own discussion.  What do you think is a good solution for the problem?  Obviously if everyone played offline things would be a lot easier but it can't be that simple, right?  What do you think are the leading problems?  I don't think BB is an unpopular game (at least not extremely so) so is it an issue of a lot of BB players don't have the time/money/interest to travel and play?  As you said the top US players are doing fine but the mid/intermediate/low are not so what can be done about this to get a more active offline BB scene in parts of the country that aren't the usual?  For instance I live in Texas, and while BB isn't nonexistent here and we do have some local players who are considered somewhat notable, it isn't a big game like it is in other parts of the US.  With that in mind, what should I do short of just continue to bring my setup to casuals every week and the occasional visit to a tournament when I can afford it?  Because (and I do not mean this as an insult at all) if the top players are the only ones getting better then BB's future may be doomed to be stagnated because the scene will be limited to only the CURRENT top players getting anywhere with no new faces or rising stars showing up.  What can be done about this?  Not a rhetorical question, I really want to know because I enjoy this game and I want it to grow and get the support it deserves and a better offline presence.

Most of the post was the solution, lol. Yes, if we had all of our players together offline I guarantee you that our midlevel would be (I can't really find a more fitting word) "inducted" into playing the game well, the same way it happens in japan. The leading problem is the nature of what is accessible to us not being rewarding enough in comparison to the real thing (thus, the gap). The only feasible solution is for players who have limited exposure to make more of what they have. That is what I am trying to say to do. Make more of what you have available to you. This is not about explicitly playing the game more, it is about work outside the game. Making more of the play that is accessible to you and why that is important, because there is actually no other answer.

 

All this talk about netplay and you forgot one little thing: What about those players (like me) that always try to play Netplay like if they were playing offline?

I know I get wrecked a lot because I don't like anything "Netplay-exclusive", but doesn't this count as "trying to improve"?

I don't really want to respond to this, but I did write about that.

"If you practice the right ideas, then by the time you end up playing offline (or the limited amount of time you do get to play offline) you will be that much faster to pick things up.

Sure, if you go back to netplay the delay might inhibit what you can do but you have a basis to which you can practice. So what if you cant AA this shitty bullet player who keeps jumping in on you in a 2 bar? Maybe its time to stop playing the bullet player, unless you can get something else from the match. How you practice is important, and really does affect how quickly you'll pick up things given the right opportunities (so travel out when you can, but make the most of it).

Imagine, if maybe, just maybe you end up playing someone who is also trying to emulate offline play. Holy crap!! wow!!! Maybe you can get used to certain things that you should be getting used to! This could be another good angle, but unfortunately most people kind of just do what they want to do or try to win without really thinking about it too much, though that is practice in its own way, if you have the right mindset to it. You might lose to things you "shouldn't", but thats ok."

I don't care if you try to play like you are playing offline unless you are learning from thinking around an "offline" scope. That is the point of what I wrote, not to play online like it's offline. I am saying mentally approach it in that way, but the purpose is that you are developing your thoughts around that. You can play online and hit people with a lot of stuff that is reactable and then think "hey holy shit that was some netplay ish" and that is good, that is the point. Whether you practice that stuff or not, whether you are trying to win online in that instance, it really doesn't matter.

I guarantee there is stuff that you do in play that I'd feel like netplay is augmenting, but you wouldn't have guessed at. The point is that people need to be more critical about that kind of thing if they are going to netplay and try to use it as a learning tool, because if they were just as critical they would be top players offline.

No, it doesn't count as trying to improve. At least, I guess it does in some sense. But it alone isn't improving by the way I am talking about, and there is no point if you are trying to just passively improve by "playing like it is offline".

 

alright.

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Man but that BBCF tho amiright guys?

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Man but that BBCF tho amiright guys?

Heck yeah!

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Info on the game has been scarce recently... Anyone know if or when that blazblue radio show is going to happen? Usually new characters are announced on that show iirc. Really want to see fine number nine in action.

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Apparently the "latest info" for BBCF will be unveiled on the same stream they're announcing the mid-results of the GGXrdR character poll. 

http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv236949414

The main point of this stream however is about promoting Summit of BlazBlue 2nd.

I wouldn't get too excited about this "latest info" though. More than likely it's just about another loketest. Edit: Apparently they'll be showing off BBCF sparring mode.

Edited by Tokkan

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Summit of BlazBlue is a national tournament (?) organized by Shinjuku Sportsland and sponsored by ArcSys. They have a bunch of qualifiers at other arcades and finals take place at Shinjuku.

Anyways... I take it that both Zedar and Tokkan watched the test broadcast, but didn't bother to mention what Mori talked during the stream. He said that BBCF still has something left that requires testing. Also, the opening movie for the game isn't complete yet, so they can't show it.

Edited by Sourenga

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The game isn't even finished yet.....I can't see how this is gonna end up with a Winter release...unless by Winter, they mean January or February 2016.

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Isn't "sparring" just the limited time training mode sort of thing that you can select in arcades?

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yes. xrd has it as well, and they likely will have similar features.

Edited by shtkn

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Sooo I have noticed that ps3 will die sumtime in 2016... So this game is next gen only, in case ppl think they are getting it just like that on ps3

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Sooo I have noticed that ps3 will die sumtime in 2016... So this game is next gen only, in case ppl think they are getting it just like that on ps3

my dad works for ASW too

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my dad works for ASW too



Umm... I don't... Really know how to respond to that.

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Considering there is at the very least Revelator coming in spring and Persona 5 coming in summer, I'd say it's still looking fairly likely that we'd get a PS3 release for CF, but no-one actually knows until ASW actually makes a statement to that effect.

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Tell your dad to bring back jumpcancel on 3C onegai

His dad's giving us a cool new 236D, a 2C that's better for pressure, and a really strong 214A among other things so we'll be fine I think. ^_^

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Well what i mean is, that the servers are going down apparently for ps3.

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my dad works for ASW too

Mori is my uncle and he told me that BBCF will not be released until 2017, on Wii-U

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Well what i mean is, that the servers are going down apparently for ps3.

Any official statements from Sony to link with that info? I hear rumors like this getting thrown around a lot without legitimacy about as frequently as proclamations that the world will end the next year.

I do know is that the PS4 isn't as successful an item as Sony had thought it might be, so I'd think that erasing the PS3's online capabilities would be a pretty risky move.

But at the very least, let's not catastrophize without hard evidence. ^_^"

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If you say RUMORS, then I'm not so sure if the sites I find are gonna be legit.

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