[CF] Tsubaki Yayoi Speculation Thread

[chzchan]

It is going to be strange but if this does offer some greater utility than the current 22X I am all for it.

[BatousaiJ]

Ya, the recent 22X has provided some nightmare situations of timing the full charge close to the ground to get a proper knockdown.

 

Still it should be interesting to see how it works. 

[Airk]

Yeah, unfortunately, I feel like the 22X series has gotten worse and worse since CS2.  If they don't step back and rethink it, then maybe removing it is due.  Still, it seems a bit foolish. 

[chzchan]

Haha I'm sort of sad about losing it because my current main gimmick that I use takes full advantage of its new non-followup attributes. In neutral and most other situations it isn't that great, but it was good for setting up since I was able to use it creatively.

I am really hoping that the new 22X provides a new tool that she desperately needs as well as maybe new oki options. It really just depends on how much utility the new special provides and I am hopin it provides tons. I expect to be disappointed though.

[Kiba]

Added image to first post with some info. Credits to Sourenga: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php/topic/10979-cf-blazblue-central-fiction-news-and-gameplay-discussion/?p=925452

[zaeris]

Haha I'm sort of sad about losing it because my current main gimmick that I use takes full advantage of its new non-followup attributes. In neutral and most other situations it isn't that great, but it was good for setting up since I was able to use it creatively.

I am really hoping that the new 22X provides a new tool that she desperately needs as well as maybe new oki options. It really just depends on how much utility the new special provides and I am hopin it provides tons. I expect to be disappointed though.

Im surprise you haven't notice that they have been nerfting 22x since cs2 and after each version it just gets worst. maybe its a conspiracy so they can remove finally lol.

[Zouf]

I'm kinda sad losing 22D honestly.

 

But seeing everyone is losing a move, I guess i can live with it.

 

Hopefully it's an overhead, or at least + on guard so we can reset pressure somehow (since she jumps forward)

[Velvien]

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s613/sh/59717f13-d81a-4158-8726-558bda9133fe/247d99e16a761d91e0434f7ef8194e63

 

To summarize:

623C > j.236A whiff still works
2C > 214B does not connect; 2C > 214D does
22B grounds and is even on block; 22D bounces (can't follow with 6C) and is plus on block
j.214D recovery increased
236236C and 236236D damage increases
Still has IAD routes
3CC > 5C works
Exceed Accel doesn't use install; 4020 damage raw
Can do crossunder 2BB oki from 22X ender
632146B startup might have been decreased
6C does not have SMP

[BatousaiJ]

Lol joketest and all but it'd be nice if we kept some of those changes considering most of them are buffs.

 

I suppose they think she needs improvements based on the direction they're going? 

 

I guess we'll see. 

[Zouf]

Looks like they went for the reset pressure route, which is god damn nice. 

[Kiba]

News added to the first post.

[BatousaiJ]

6C not being SMP actually fixes the shit Mugen damage problem quite handedly.

[Errol]

It sounds like same routes as CP do that 8k+. and starter was either 5c ch or 6c, with 5 charges - so, yknow, basically what we expect.

 

in terms of 6c, the current routes that let you use 6C don't EXIST in CF, so we need to see when we will actually be able to do 6C multiple times, and how many times.

 

 

214D>CT>6C still works.  but 22D is gone and new 22D doesn't lead into 6C.

5C>2C>236D should also be gone so that's another 6C route that doesn't work.

J214D into 6C doesn't work.

 

etc. but I'm sure we will end up being able to use it multiple times. It could have not much to do with mugen though, IF the main way to get another 6C in is by using CT.

 

New 22D sounds hella awesome for pressure. can threaten an overhead after 5C, 5CC or 6C now. Although 6B is perhaps no longer +.

[BatousaiJ]

46D > 236D > 6C doesn't work?

[Errol]

no info on that. it probably does though.

[Zouf]

So, 22B/D is an overhead?

[chzchan]

I'm pretty excited about the 3CC > 5C route if they keep that. 3C's P1 value or 3CC's P2 value will definitely drop though because it would do too much damage.

 

Having a + on block special that is potentially an overhead for 1 charge that ALSO moves Tsubaki forward sounds like a great deal on paper. I hope it allows you to hop over certain pokes like Sol's Bandit Revolver/Bringer does. Since it does also move you forward I am really excited for being able to hopefully continue pressure from near max range 5B poke. Maybe some 5B > 3C or 5B > 22B/D shenanigans may be in place if the opponent actually sits down for some reason.

 

I wonder if they actually measured charge speed though. People only hinted at acceleration before but I'm guessing the Japanese players didn't notice it because it was so subtle and didn't really change much. Going to have to do proper measurements when the game comes out again haha.

[Zouf]

Everyone's 3C is a good starter, don't know why they should tweak our down. Remember that it's slow and unsafe on guard, even though the reach is grand, we don't need it weaker.

[Shigekazu]

3CC > 5C works!? Brillant!! >.<

[KonannFriends]

I'm thinking of picking up this character. I play her a lot on stylish just for fun and when I say I pick ass I really mean it. I beat the crap out of pink squares.

Her 5b is really good much better than Amane 5b or Mu 5c ( I actually play these characters) I've heard time and time again she doesn't have good mix up and she struggles at neutral and her air normals suck ( I've heard it all, which is way has kept me from playing her all this time) I find her pokes amazing. Her jump ins are double or triple overheads ( remember I play stylish this may be stylish only stuff.) her dp is good af ( only one button on stylish though)

Any reasons why I shouldn't learn her. Speak now or forever have a nooh in your community.

Edit: Lol pick ass

[chzchan]

Her 5B is nowhere near as good as Mu's god poke but I think it is alright. It has bad hitbox structure and cannot be confirmed into at any range that isn't short unless you get a CH.

She struggles in neutral since she actually has to play it conventionally and her air normals suck. Her AA is also slow and she is the only character in the game that doesn't have a cross up hitbox on her air normals. She gets very little reward off of random hits and you have to be on point with your confirms just to get a smidgen of damage off of anything that isn't a perfect AA hit or a standing confirm.

She struggles to hold people down because of her normals and she requires a ridiculous amount of conditioning to just get people to sit down and actually take her mixup. Her mixup is great but her pressure is godawful especially if the opponent uses system mechanics like barrier and IB at the right spots. She also lacks something to make the opponent immediately afraid especially if the opponent knows how she works.

In this version her damage is pretty good and she can turn most hits into near full screen corner carry with her special charge resources. Good luck actually staying on people after a knockdown midscreen though hahaha. That shit is difficult.

She is definitely a challenge to play, especially in higher level play but I haven't had enough experience to say much about that. I'd say that besides fighting Tochigin and Nakkiel in my pools at the BB side tournament in EVO I haven't really gotten to the point where I can give you perfect advice. Definitely try her out though she could be much better or worse in BBCF depending on what they do to her.

[BatousaiJ]

If a character seems interesting to you, why would there be any reason not to try them out?

 

Just check out their challenge mode combos, screw around in training mode and even do a few sets of games on arcade mode.

 

If you like it, start using her against other players and see how you fare. 

[Zouf]

I'm thinking of picking up this character. I play her a lot on stylish just for fun and when I say I pick ass I really mean it. I beat the crap out of pink squares.

Her 5b is really good much better than Amane 5b or Mu 5c ( I actually play these characters) I've heard time and time again she doesn't have good mix up and she struggles at neutral and her air normals suck ( I've heard it all, which is way has kept me from playing her all this time) I find her pokes amazing. Her jump ins are double or triple overheads ( remember I play stylish this may be stylish only stuff.) her dp is good af ( only one button on stylish though)

Any reasons why I shouldn't learn her. Speak now or forever have a nooh in your community.

Edit: Lol pick ass

She is a good noob killer, because all her mixups are very hard to see when you actually don't know Tsubaki.

 

Once the matchup is known, this is where you will begin to really struggle, and see her limits.

[chzchan]

Just got some new stuff fresh from about a day ago from this new evernote doc.

 

[collapse]

システム関連：

コンボ時間が減少された。５ＢＢ＞５ＣＣ＞槍光スカ＞５Ｃ＞２Ｃ＞Ｂ剣がつながらない。（５ＣＣからなら可能？）

同技補正が削除、必殺技の同技補正はダメージにのみあるらしい

アクティブフロウ追加、攻撃を当て続けると発動し、ダメージ上昇やＯＤのたまる時間が短縮される。

エクシードアクセル追加、ＯＤ中に全ボタンを同時押しすることで発動、アクティブフロウ時だとダメージが二倍になり生当てで４０００近く減る

ＯＤをすると時間が表示され、ＯＤが終了するとＯＤアイコンにカウントが表示されたまるまでの時間がわかりやすくなる。

ｒｃＯＤをしてもｃＯＤの時間になるらしい

 

通常技関連

３ＣＣが通常ヒット時でも５Ｃで拾える

ＪＣＣ＞ＪＤ＞ＪＢはできる

６ＣＣからの低ダコンはできる、ただしコンボを少し刻むだけでできなくなる

チャージキャンセル（何か＞５Ｄによるすき消し）は存在する、通常技だと０．２５回収、必殺技だと０．５回収

５Ｂと２Ｃはｊｃあり、６Ｃはなし

６Ａ＞５ＣＣ＞６ＢからＢ剣がつながらない

６Ｂｃｈ＞６ＢからはＢ剣で拾える、６ＢＢの進む距離が短くなったかも？

６Ｂ微不利？

５Ｄ２Ｄは変更なし、ＪＤのみ変更ありで高空だと高速で０．５たまり、低空でもう一度高速でたまるらしい

投げはほとんど変わらず、いつものコンボで大丈夫

 

必殺技関係

槍光スカコンも槍翼スカコンも存在、５Ｃで拾える

各種Ｄ必殺技はスカしてもガードされてても派生可能

Ｃ槍はたぶん無敵がある

特殊翼から６Ｃで拾えない、

Ｄ翼は硬直増加、２Ｂも難しいとの報告あり

必殺技は今回も生出しと派生で性能が違う模様

生Ｄ剣はｊｃが可能、ｊｃｃＣＴも可能

Ａ閃はたぶん変わりなし、Ｃ閃は裏回る、Ｄ閃５分

特殊閃は変化なし、普通に６Ｃで拾える

鎖はＩＧ２回収

Ｃ焔のダメ上昇？

バナナはたぶん据え置き

新必殺技、鎚

Ｂ版Ｄ版両方中段

ガード時Ｂ版５分、Ｄ版有利

Ｂ鎚はダウンがとれる、チャーキャン可能

Ｄ鎚はバウンドし、５Ｃ等で拾うことが可能

閃ガード派生Ｄ鎚をするとスカる、すかし派生で距離を開けるとあたる

エクシードアクセルはかっこいい

[/collapse]

 

Definitely needs translation so I will ask news thread unless Errol is willing to help out.

 

The most I got out of this is that the new 22D can be picked up with 5C after the bounce.

[Kiba]

Hakimaru translated them for us!

 

System：

- Combo time got reduced. 5BB>5CC>623C>j.236A(w)>5C>2C>214B doesn't connect (might work from 5CC?)

- SMP scaling got removed, looks like SMP on specials only affects damage.

- Active Flow added, triggered by continuously attacking. Increases damage and speeds up OD charge time.

- Exceed Accel added, activated by simultaneously pressing all buttons during OD. Damage is doubled during Active Flow, doing close to 4000 on raw hit.

- A timer is displayed during OD, and there's a counter over the OD icon when it ends, making it easier to tell how long it will take to charge up.

- rcOD seems to just give the same duration as cOD.

 

Normals:

- 3CC>5C works even on normal hit

- JCC>JD>JB works

- You can go from 6CC into low dash combos, but they drop pretty early

- Charge cancel (something>5D to get rid of recovery) is a thing, normals give 0.25 stock, specials give 0.5.

- 5B and 2C can be jump canceled, 6C can not

- 6A>5CC>6B doesn't go into 214B

- 6Bch>6B into 214B pickup works, the distance 6BB moves forward might have been reduced?

- 6B slightly minus?

- No changes to 5D 2D, only JD is different. Done high up, it looks like it quickly charges 0.5 stock, and then does another quick charge at low height.

- Throw is pretty much unchanged, regular combo still works

 

Specials:

- 623C>j.236A(w) and 623C>j.214A(w) combos are both in, can pick up with 5C

- The various D specials can go into their followups even on whiff or block

- 623C probably has invincibility

- j.236D>j.214D can't be followed up with 6C. Due to j.214D recovery increase there are reports that 2B is hard as well

- Specials seem to have different properties when done raw or as followups this time around as well

- Raw 214D is jump cancelable, jccCT works too

- 236A is probably unchanged, 236C passes through, 236D is even

- No change to [4]6D>236D, can pick up with 6C as usual

- 63214C gives 2 stock

- Damage on 236236C increased?

- Banana(632146B) is probably unchanged.

- New special, Tsuchi (22B/D)

--- B, D versions are both overheads

--- On block B version is even, D version is plus

--- 22B gives knockdown, can be charge canceled

--- 22D bounces, can be followed up with 5C etc.

--- 236x>blocked>followup 22D whiffs but if you use the pass through followup to open up some distance it will connect

- Exceed Accel looks cool