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chzchan

[CF] Tsubaki Yayoi Speculation Thread

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Even if it's the case, if you see someone jumping in front of you, you will guard high by reflex. If we could fake it, it could be interesting. But that's not the case afaik so it doesn't change anything. It certainly doesn't make up for the slow startup.

Anyway, I don't think this move's purpose is to open up the opponent. It's just a way for us to reset the pressure. And a great tool to have a decent okizeme midscreen.

The best "buff" I can see in CF is the Active Flow. It will allow us to have an early OD to get install (meaning tools to get the advantage) and a burst in the same round. Which is obviously very strong for Tsubaki.

 

 

Man, this glossy white outfit is so beautiful *-*

 

 

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Oh man you don't even know how excited I am for Active Flow combined with the Crush Trigger changes. Since you initiate Active Flow automatically by depleting the opponent's barrier, I will be using the new faster CT all the time to indirectly convert small amounts of meter into OD gauge regen. Active Flow makes you get your Burst back at a ridiculous rate so it just goes so well with how I play Tsubaki, you know using OD as often as I can and all that. If Tsubaki's CT is still +2 on block, I will be using it all the time in pressure since all Crush Triggers apparently have sub-20f startup now.

Damn I am excited.

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Oh did you figure it out yourself? You got a source?

Wait a sec, 22B is slower? I actually thought it was the opposite.

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Ripped the YT video and counted frames.

Because the source is a 30 fps video, i can't be more accurate than this. But these are the good figures.

Also, those are raw 22X. I didn't count for the follow up version (which could be faster). I'll wait for later, this is not so important anyway.

Btw, Valken 6C is 25f, Gauntlet hades is 20f (air version is 12f). I'm not sure but Tsubaki's OH is probably the slowest in the game (not counting Carl's puppet one)

Yet again, the move utility will depend on its properties. If it's for example foot invul and airborne from 1st frame (or close to), it could be a great tool to bait mashes and throws.

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Yeah, I did some myself and it is slow as hell. There's also something peculiar about the fakeout animation. It apparently isn't just 6B. It actually copies the animation of the move you special cancelled 22D out of. This is very very interesting. Not exactly sure how useful it will end up being, but it just seems neat so far.

Images make it look like she kind of phases into the next part of her animations, but the startup animation of the previous special actually replays a second time after the special is cancelled into the next special.

Maybe only the D version replays normals it was cancelled out of??? It still replays specials as well, but only non-D specials replay other specials. Not exactly sure what the utility of the non-D specials replaying though.

A lot of speculation here.

『ブレイブルー セントラルフィクション』クローズドロケテスト紅白戦その3 (2).mp4_snapshot_00.07_[2015.08.30_01.43.22].jpg

『ブレイブルー セントラルフィクション』クローズドロケテスト紅白戦その3 (2).mp4_snapshot_00.07_[2015.08.30_01.44.58].jpg

『ブレイブルー セントラルフィクション』クローズドロケテスト紅白戦その3 (2).mp4_snapshot_00.07_[2015.08.30_01.45.53].jpg

『ブレイブルー セントラルフィクション』クローズドロケテスト紅白戦その3 (2).mp4_snapshot_00.07_[2015.08.30_01.46.21].jpg

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Dude, that's just some FX, no need to make a big deal out of it, really.

It's extremely hard to perceive during a real match.

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Charge rate is double per tap. 0.2 charges per tap instead of 0.1. Still working on sound cue stuff for holding it down. Not sure if charge acceleration is still here or not.

Hey, even if it is visual effects I'll take anything I can if it helps.

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Audio cue stuff done. In the range of ~222 units/frame and I think acceleration is gone. She definitely gets more per tap though, so it'll be back to finding times in neutral to just tap and run, block, AA, or DP since you'll get a full single stock in 5 of em.

I stopped doing this in CP because 0.1 charge per tap is garbage. I have been sticking to charge-generating combos and setups combined with OD instead.

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Things noticeable in the video :

- command throw now deals 1320 damage. 5A > command throw works on barrier guard. Or at least dash 5A > command throw

- 3CC > 5C combo (we already knew about that though)

- charge rate increased

- 2CC (air) > CT combo

- 5CC  > Exceed doesn't work (or maybe it just whiffed?)

- j.236D > j.214D doesn't cross over anymore (no more random cross over yeah!!!!)

- 214D seems to go a little farther

- 236D unchanged

- 5CC > 22D doesn't work (at least on standing opponent)

- 236236D minimum damage up from 660 to 800

 

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Things noticeable in the video :

- command throw now deals 1320 damage.

 

- 236236D minimum damage up from 660 to 800

She was in Active Flow in both of those cases. Damage on super was 760. That still means 236236D deals slightly more damage (30 more?) but command throw damage remains unchanged.

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5B>6B combos on standing non-CH during the vs Hibiki match. I'm pretty fucking happy

Whoah;  That...has all kinds of interesting implications.

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It most likely means we can reliably do something off of near max-range 5B's, very happy about that. 

 

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5B>6B combos on standing non-CH during the vs Hibiki match. I'm pretty fucking happy

It also moves her a ridiculous distance forward. I doubt they increased 5B's attack level, so this means that 6B has 17f startup which is pretty good.

Since I have been hearing that 6A5CC6B > 214B no longer works this probably means the 6B's (and possibly 6BB's) attack level got taken down to 3 from 4. I had also seen notes that 6B is no longer + on block and this is probably why. It is most likely -1 on block now. I don't mind this that much because of how far forward it moves her though.

Small things I have been getting from asking Errol and looking at other Japanese twitter posts:

5A/2A > 2B now combos on standing so they most definitely made 2B faster. The thing is that because of 5A/2A's buffed attack level, they actually would have only needed to reduce startup by 1 frame in order for this to work. Attack level 1 hitstun on standing is 12, so I hope they go above and beyond and make it like 10 or lower instead of 12. Like man imagine if it was 8. Damn.

5CC > CT works on crouching, so 6A5CC > CT > 6CC > IAD etc. is possible for 25 meter which is neat. Also, holding down A+B for the CT augments the untech time on air hit, stagger time on ground hit, and guard break stun on guard break, so how long you hold it actually matters now. From this you can deduce that an uncharged CT has a maximum of 21f startup. It could possibly be 20f startup and still make 5CC > CT not connect so I am guessing it is 20. 20 frames is actually pretty fast and makes it so that you can't mash out of CTs cancelled out of normals with an attack level of 3 or higher without getting CH unless you IB. This also makes 6C > CT airtight on regular block since 6C is at attack level 5 with 20f of blockstun.

It seems like her damage is slightly lower, but she has access to a lot of meter-to-damage conversion anywhere on the screen without needing charges because of the sped up Crush Trigger startup. Looking forward to doing random j.CC > j.214D > 2A5C2CC > CT and various other shenanigans.

If you do 6CC > 22B you can combo afterward midscreen with I think 5C so combo theory revolving around the new 22B may involve a dependence on height. There will definitely be some room for mid-combo charging creativity here I am betting. From what I saw you cannot link 22D into 6C, but maybe if the height is right you can. Since normal moves in BBCF no longer have SMP, I am also betting that 6CC > 22D > 6C works.

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It seems like her damage is slightly lower, but she has access to a lot of meter-to-damage conversion anywhere on the screen without needing charges because of the sped up Crush Trigger startup. Looking forward to doing random j.CC > j.214D > 2A5C2CC > CT and various other shenanigans.

I wouldn't count too much on any of this; New combo routes mean crappy new damage when people have very little time to figure anything out (i.e. loktest);  But also, it doesn't look like CT adds nearly as much damage as it used to so...

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Yeah it definitely isn't 1000 base anymore or they may have removed the "ignore character combo rate" attribute as well. I'm pretty hype to explore the new routes whatever they may be.

Also one giganto super important thing that the 5B > 6B comboing allows Tsubaki to do is FINALLY be able to get a combo off of an absolute max range "fast" poke on a standing opponent without spending anything. Never before (at least in my short experience with her) has she been able to do this so I think this is pretty huge. Like if you hit with sort of near the tip of 5B you could 236A, but not MAX range. Hell, even if she spent meter/charges she'd still get nothing unless she was close to the corner. Now other characters can't mock her as much anymore like Ragna and his max range jesus kick into 5C or Jin's hurtboxless 5C sword normal into 5D.

Like damn have I been waiting for this to be a thing. Never again will I have to resort to attempting an IAD j.B crossup after confirming that 236A will 100% not connect from the distance I am at after getting a clean smack with the fingertips of Tsubaki's 5B.

I can feel this getting removed in the next test or by the time the full game comes out though. Just like j.214D being an overhead, this is too damn good to be kept.

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Eh, if I were given the decision to pick 1.1 j.214D with overhead property, or Extend's j.214D, I'd go with Extend every time. I'm pretty sure the overhead property got removed since the move was already getting buffed so much. Its current ability to let you convert off air hits and pretty much ignore j.D's landing recovery off goofy shenanigans or fuzzy setups is really strong. 

I feel 5B>6B naturally comboing is far more likely to stay in since it fixes a pretty fundamental problem with Tsubaki's ground game, as everyone's said already, with her lack of ability to actually utilize 5B's range. 6B's also possibly been nerfed to no longer be + as a tradeoff, which j.214D didn't really have any tradeoffs last time they made it overhead. 

 

Joketests tho

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That's where 22B kicks in.

5B > 6B comboing is pretty huge. Like, really. If we could get 6A > 5CC actually comboing relaliably, that would also be great. Or add 6A > 5B gatling idk :\

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22B for converting from 5B?  I'm kinda imagining new 22B will be too slow, and the only reason it works in combos is that the hitbox starts really high in the air, like how Bang's 5C hits frame 18 but won't hit crouchers until like 23 or something.

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I believe 22B and 22D are both 30 frames, and they both hit crouchers on 30 frames too. When SKD tries to jump out of it in pressure, it gets blocked on frame 30.

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I believe 22B to be slower than 22D, but I could be wrong.

22B is not here to convert from 5B, it's just here to replace the "old" 6B to reset pressure, as it is +0 on guard (if it's stayed from 1st loketest)

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