[CF] Valkenhayn General Discussion Thread

[Kiba]

 

 

 

You can discuss all things regarding the new Valk here!

• Exceed Accel: Sieg Naegel
• New human overhead that's wolf cancellable here

 

Loketest News (Credits to Hakimaru, Errol and Samthegreat for translations)

 

• 236A wolf cannon - the time in which you can't ukemi/tech is reduced
• 6B change - is now the new overhead you see in the trailer. 2C > 6B works on airborne opponent. 6B causes emergency untechable knockdown on air hit.
• 6B can only gatling into 5D
• After j.214B? kicks to opponent upward, they are slightly launched diagonally
• Wolf Gauge Cooldown is short
• Wolf movement and air movement consumes Wolf Gauge
• Rozen moves forward, slightly
• 2C > 6C doesn't work
• 6C height is lower
• From an N starter, 236A > 2C > 6B > 5D > 5C > 236A/B works
• 5D invul unchanged
• j.C > Sturm works
• Wolf cooldown didn't change. Wolf gauge simply got longer. Full recovery went from 8 5C whiffs to 13 whiffs. Movement in wolf form decreases the wolf gauge (walking slightly so, air dashing and backdashing considerably so).
• Since new j.214B knocks diagonally upwards in about the same manner as CPEX Hotaru, you probably can't follow up an airborne low altitude corner j.214B in human form. Mondlicht wall sticks.
• 6C is now mid, travelling distance increased. Can cancel into Geschwind after the startup once again [on hit/block I presume, like current OD/CS1]. Probably telling us to use it in the same way as former 6B. Still fatal counters.
• Corner 2B > 3C > 236A > 2A > 2B > 2C > tk.214B > 2A > 2B > 2C > Air combo confirmed. Difficult.
• w[5C > 236A > 236C > j.236A > j.236C > j.236B > j.214X > B confirmed. [i think he messed up his notation. Aizen > B doesn't make sense to me, also he forgot to close the wolf part so I don't know if it's human or wolf B]
• j.214C probably slams the opponent down the slowest between A, B and C versions? j.236C doesn't float at all, use j.236B to gain height.
• Since 6B has poor horizontal and vertical range, hitting airborne opponents is quite difficult. Since you need to wolf form to follow up, use when you really need higher damage [Jesus what a crappy sentence]? It feels it will probably get adjusted [talking about the hitbox or the protation?].
• 236A has shorter untech time, seems like you can't use it in F starter combos.
• Crouching counter hit 236A > 2A connects
• Since 236C sends diagonally upwards, it can only be followed up with 5C midscreen.
• Midscreen j.214B is still a thing [in combos? Heavy slang, not precised].
• Since the wolf cannons combo does low damage, trying to think of a situation wherein it would be advantageous [over another combo]. Something like w.C starter?

[Stellarcircle5]

I don't think we needed another overhead, but hey, I'll take it :P

[Shyn]

I don't think we needed another overhead, but hey, I'll take it :P

 

I'm wondering if they made 6C not an overhead, or something.

[Stellarcircle5]

That actually sounds pretty feasible. Having 6C as a throw bait and combo tool only would make a lot more sense than the big, dumb overhead dropkick we currently have.

[Davidov07]

i want a DP D':
or some defensive option

[JoshuaVv]

i want a DP D':

or some defensive option

 

#BringBack2CAntiAir

 

But I agree, my first thought when seeing that new OH is 6C is gone as an OH. Makes sense, since it was big and dumb, but did at least get over throws and lows. I'd almost call it a buff, but a very slight one at best. 6C will still have it's uses by beating stuff, wolf canceling, and in combo/carry, so losing OH won't hurt it. If you're using it for that stuff, you won't need the OH property anyway. Although I am curious what the command for it will be. Most typical OH commands are taken by other moves, so it'll probably 4A/B/C.

[Kiba]

 

 

[Kiba]

Valkenhayn stuff according to Nao: https://twitter.com/sirenar/status/622267383265128448

 

 

• 236A wolf cannon - the time in which you can't ukemi/tech is reduced
• 6B change - is now the new overhead you see in the trailer
• 6B can only gatling into 5D
• After j.214B? kicks to opponent upward, they are slightly launched diagonally
• Wolf Gauge Cooldown is short
• Wolf movement and air movement consumes Wolf Gauge
• Rozen moves forward, slightly

 

Credits to 7thFonon for translations.

[Magaki]

236A wolf canon untech nerf could be bad for S starters depending on how much was removed. Something like brjA>w5BC>w236A cause the opponent to air tech in CPE. Worst thing that could happen would be that S starters combos would require w5C>6D>wjA in the corner to combo resulting in much bigger wolf consumption.

New overhead sounded like an interesting buff to grant him better mixups in human forum meterless. However, making it the new 6B sounds like an important nerf as 6B was an outstanding way to reset pressure + vacuum in human mode, allowed to get great damage and, most importantly, important wolf recovery especially when coupled with combos like corner 6B(1)>236C.

Hope old 6B will come back. We are losing much more than we are gaining with that change.

Rozen moving forward slightly could allow to avoid situations where 5C>236C whiffed if the opponent was too far.

Dunno what to think of other changes. Need more data/footage to really understand whether they are significant or not.

Gotta wait and see I guess.

If that's really the only changes worth mentioning though, guess he will keep being top/high.

[Stellarcircle5]

The old man has apparently received some new meter nerf. Cant find the source anywhere, if someone knows, y'all should post it.

[Falco252]

https://twitter.com/sirenar/status/622664322708340736

 

The wolf jauge is 1.5 lower? Or it takes 1.5 less time to replenish it (needs 13 whiffed 5C now, 8 in CF?)? I'm confused so I'd let it to a real translator.

The cooldown is the same.

[Kiba]

Thanks to Hakimaru for the translations

 

- 2C > 6C doesn't work

- 6C height is lower

- From an N starter, 236A > 2C > 6B > 5D > 5C > 236A/B works

- 5D invul unchanged

- j.C > sturm works

- Wolf cooldown didn't change. Wolf gauge simply got longer. Full recovery went from 8 5C whiffs to 13 whiffs.

[Magaki]

Weird thing is that in CPE, you need 12 5C whiffed to fully recover. Might be 13 with autofire or if I mash harder.
Just tested it now.

Would make more sense if he meant that the gauge recover around 1,5 times faster.


236A>2C being a thing and so is 2C>6B is great though.

Means we are back to either old 236A or less recovery on hit and that 6B is fast enough to have 2C>6B combo. Though, in 6B's case, might be that it hits crouching characters in the last active frames.

[samthegreat]

Hima's report:

 

・新中段は6B。2C6Bは空中ヒットで繋がる。空中ヒット時叩きつけダウンで緊急受け身不能

New overhead is 6B. 2C>6B works on airborne opponent. 6B causes emergency untechable knockdown on air hit.

・狼で動くとゲージ減少(歩きは少し、空中ダッシュやバクステはかなり)

Movement in wolf form decreases the wolf gauge (walking slightly so, air dashing and backdashing considerably so).

・リヒトが今の蛍みたいに上に前にホップするので、端低空リヒトから人のままコンボは多分出来ない。端張り付き。

Since new Mondlicht knocks diagonally upwards in about the same manner as CPEX Hotaru, you probably can't follow up an airborne low altitude corner Mondlicht in human form. Mondlicht wall sticks.

 

・6C上段に、前進距離増加。通常時の発生後のゲシュの復活。多分旧6Bの代わりに使え、というメッセージ。FCは残ってる。

6C is now mid, travelling distance increased. Can cancel into Geschwind after the startup once again [on hit/block I presume, like current OD/CS1]. Probably telling us to use it in the same way as former 6B. Still fatal counters.

・端2BB3C>家>2AB2C>リヒト>2AB2Cからエリアル確認。むずい。

Corner 2B > 3C > Jäger > 2A 2B 2C > tk Mondlicht > 2A 2B 2C > Air combo confirmed. Difficult.

・【C>ACケニ>空ACBケニ>アイゼン>Bを確認。

w[5C > 236A > 236C > j.236A > j.236C > j.236B > j.214X > B confirmed. [i think he messed up his notation. Aizen > B doesn't make sense to me, also he forgot to close the wolf part so I don't know if it's human or wolf B]

 

・アイゼンはCが一番叩きつけ速度が遅い？ケニはCが全然浮かない、高さ稼ぐならBがいる。

C Aizen (j.214C) probably slams the opponent down the slowest between A B and C versions? C Konig (j.236C) doesn't float at all, use B to gain height.

・6Bは横も上も薄いので空中相手になかなか当てにくい。狼経由必須なのでデカイダメ取る時用？補正は良い気がする。

Since 6B has poor horizontal and vertical range, hitting airborne opponents is quite difficult. Since you need wolf form to follow up, use 6B when you really need higher damage [Jesus what a crappy sentence]? Feeling good about the proration.

・地Aケニの受け身不能が短く、F始動はケニしちゃダメっぽい。

Ground A Konig (236A) has shorter untech time, seems like you can't use it in F starter combos.

後、家しゃがみカウンターで2A繋がったけど前からだっけ？

Also, crouching counter hit Jäger > 2A connected, did that work before? [No, it's new.]

 

・ローゼンが斜め上に吹っ飛ばすから中央はC拾いのみ

Since Rozen sends diagonally upwards, it can only be followed up with 5C midscreen.

・中央リヒトは今迄通りアレ

Midscreen mondlicht is still a thing [in combos? Heavy slang, not precised].

・ケニコンがイマイチ減らないので理由を考えたい。狼Cとかかな？

Wolf cannon combo does low damage, trying to think of a possible cause. Maybe w.C?

 

There's more but I'm taking a break.

[Stellarcircle5]

Do we know if the new meter mechanics are stacked on the existing ones? As in you still lose meter by simply being in wolf, but you accelerate it by moving? I hope that isn't the case.

[samthegreat]

Corrections made:

 

・6Bは横も上も薄いので空中相手になかなか当てにくい。狼経由必須なのでデカイダメ取る時用？補正は良い気がする。
(略) It feels it will probably get adjusted [talking about the hitbox or the protation?].
^ Feeling good about the proration.

・ケニコンがイマイチ減らないので理由を考えたい。狼Cとかかな？
Since the wolf cannons combo does low damage, trying to think of a situation wherein it would be advantageous [over another combo]. Something like w.C starter?
^ Wolf cannon combo does low damage, trying to think of a possible cause. Maybe w.C?

 

Thanks to hakimiru for the heads-up.

[Shyn]

Hmm no old 6B, 6C is mid and still FC. (being a mid, the P1 might be better)

 

Will I finally get to drop-kick people for punishes!?

[Davidov07]

oh man 6B is gone? its a sad day, seems like only nerfs.

i hope they give us a good defensiveo option then, AT LEASTTTT lol
Are there videos of valkenhayn other than the trailer?

[someonewhodied]

the new 6B could be really cool. It has hard knockdown right? If it smps we could do something like noel's 22B SMP oki.

 

Something like 

X>2C>6B>5D>w[5C>236B>2D>5C>236A>5D]>2C>2147B>2C>6B(smp)>5D>oki

 

and then an A wolf cannon for oki that will catch rolls/nontech/quicktech for a new combo or it will late-meaty them on normal tech.

Or a slightly delayed w5C to pick up any delay techs.

 

or without SMP, we can do something like 

w[5C>236A>5C>236A(smp)>5D]>6B>5D>oki

or

X>2147B>2C>2147B(smp)>6B>5D>oki

[vrj_rrls_2015]

Human overhead that can cancel.

I don't know why they did this but it's going to be so much fun!

[Aki-]

We lost our 6b my feels. Hope we get some footage on YT sooner or later since I really wanna see what people can figure out with him. :] 

[Davidov07]

 HAVE STILL HAVE 6B!!!!!
maybe not the same input but we still have it!
-https://youtu.be/w2EezZKXxkU?t=20m46s-

 

[Magaki]

Comparing right now some stuff in the footage (Davidov's link) we have compared to CPE for damage comparison:

CF loketest: wjA>w5B (530)>w5C(823)>wjA(913)>5B(1057)>236A(1239)>5B(1363)>2C(1501)
w5B>wjA>wjC>wj236B(1365)
jC RC>jC(1284)>5B(1512)>5C(1816)>236C(2142)

CPE: wjA>w5B(595)>w5C(929)>wjA(1044)>5B(1184)>236A(1340)>5B(1438)>2C(1547)
w5B>wjA>wjC>wj236B(1559)
jC RC>jC(1138)>5B(1377)>5C(1672)>236C(1944)
Would say that wjA's raw damage got nerfed which would explain the damage difference but 2C was buffed.
Slight damage nerf either way.

Combo timer supposedly is faster but j214B knockdown even with a S starter (See the combo above and add a tk mondlicht after the 2C)

Also looks like either 236A float lower or have more untech or 2C float the opponent lower. Would explain why I couldn't do 236A>5B>2C>tkj214B in CPE

Mondlicht seem to make him move sightly forward. Will make corner and near corner combo much more stable.

6B (new OH)>5D>wAC>w236A>w236B>wj236B>wj214A>w5B>wjAB>wjB (2854)

6B looks like a great starter and a fast overhead. Being able to link w5B after wj214A is very interesting.
236C got less untech time. Probably need to cancel into wolf now to combo afterwards.

Doesn't seem like he loses that much wolf gauge to be honest. Was expecting somethng big but it looks fine and if we can get longer human routes, it could be even easier to manage it than in CPE

Looking forward to this new version quite a lot now. Looks like he gained much more than he lost. 

[Davidov07]

yep and on the damage topic, seems like everyone does less dmg kind of back to 1.1, which im ok with.

[Magaki]

As long as he keeps his vortex, doing less damage isn't an issue. In fact if it means having more stable and longer human routes, it's a trade largely in our favour.