[CF] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[KayEff]

 

So with the release of a trailer for the new rendition of BlazBlue, I figure something like this would be appropriate.
 
Here's the trailer for those of you who (for some reason) haven't seen it yet:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxXGVJSINHk
 
I'll keep the topic a little loose. Just be sure not to go too crazy with your speculation. Keep it tidy and sophisticated, and no harm will be done.
 

Location Test #1 Notes

• NEW SPECIAL: Nightmare Edge (j.214C) >> Tsuika Kougeki (214D)
  Replaces Belial Edge
  An airborne special that sends the opponent directly down to the ground. Combos off j.D. Untechable until knockdown, but cannot lead into full meterless conversions. Has a follow-up attack that knocks the opponent far away and causes slide state. Good for corner carry.
   
• EXCEED ACCEL: Seed of Tartarus (A+B+C+D during Over Drive)
  Nothing too special mechanically, Exceed Accels all seem pretty standardised. Deals 2010 damage raw across 2 hits. No Heat required.
   
• Due to universal changes in hitstun decay values, many combo routes from BBCPEX are no longer possible. After 5B > 5C > 623D >> 236C >> 236C in the corner, landing 5B after 2C > 5D > 236D is no longer possible.
   
• 5B now combos into 2D.
• 5C > 2D is no longer a valid Revolver Action.
• 2C now combos into 2D.
• 6B now forces crouching state on hit. Now combos into 2D.
• 2D is no longer a low. Now special cancelable. Causes stagger on Counter Hit.
• Gauntlet Hades now causes float on hit.
• Blood Scythe causes slide on ground hit.

 

Closed Location Test Notes

• 5C > 2D Revolver Action restored.
• Crush Trigger now has faster start-up, but the advantage on hit or crush is smaller. The longer you hold Crush Trigger, the greater the advantage. Universal change.
• Tsuika Kougeki (Hell's Fang) now has less knockback on hit.
• Keri Age's float height and untechable time have been decreased.
• Dead Spike now floats on ground hit.
• Aerial Blood Scythe causes slide on hit. Slide has enough untechable time that a mid-combo high air hit still allows for a 2A follow-up. 2B is possible off 6D > j.D height.
• Nightmare Edge now deals multiple hits on the way down.

 

Location Test #2 Notes

• 5B > 5C > 2D > 236D works from max 5B range.
• 2D > Hell's Fang does not connect at range mid-screen.
• 6C is possibly faster to start up.
• 6D now causes blowback on hit.
• j.B's sprite has been tweaked.
• It is now possible to combo after Gauntlet Hades because of its float state, but it's difficult.
• As the opponent now drops faster after the wall stick on Yoko Fukitobashi, it can no longer be combo'd into 2C.
• Aerial Blood Scythe > Dead Spike works.
• Nightmare Edge is even or slightly minus on block, can be followed up on Counter Hit.
   
• Crouching opponent 2A > 5B > 5C > 6C > 214D > micro-dash 623D works.
• Near-corner air hit 5B > 5D(1) > 214B >> 214D > 5B > 5D > 236D > dc 5B > 5D > 22C works.
• Corner 5B > 5C > 623D >> 236C >> 236C > 5B > 5D > 236D > 3C > 214A >> 214D deals 3743 damage.

 

Location Test #3 Notes

• 5C no longer combos into Aerial Gauntlet Hades on air hit.
• 3C > 2D now combos. Dead Spike possible afterwards.
• 2D's proration seems heavier. (OD) 2D > dc 5C no longer works.
• 6D only combos into j.D or j.D (whiff) > 5B or 5C on regular hit. Following up with a micro-dash 6A does not seem possible. Now has Fatal Counter property on Counter Hit.
• j.D's float height has been reduced.
• Air Throw now causes wall bounce mid-screen. Can combo into Aerial Blood Scythe, but full conversions depend on height.
• Tsuika Kougeki (Hell's Fang) now has reduced advantage on hit. Similar recovery to Tsuika Kougeki (Nightmare Edge).
• (OD) Tsuika Kougeki (Hell's Fang) is now dash cancelable.
• D Inferno Divider no longer has Fatal Counter property on Counter Hit.
• Dead Spike now causes blowback on ground hit.
• Aerial Blood Scythe has longer recovery.
• (OD) Blood Scythe now floats the opponent on hit in a similar fashion to CPEX Belial Edge's last hit on air hit. As long as Over Drive is still active, 623D >> 236C >> 214D > j.D > j.214B >> 214D > jc j.214D > 632146D works afterwards.
• Nightmare Edge cannot be combo'd after mid-combo even after a Fatal Counter, but can combo into 6C on Counter Hit.
• Mada owari ja nee zo now slides less far, allowing for easier 22C > dc dash 5C conversions.
   
• 214B >> 214D > 5B > 5C > jc j.C > j.D > jc j.C> j.D > j.214C >> 214D deals approximately 3100 damage.
• 5B+C > 214D > 5C > 5D > 214A >> 214D deals approximately 2700 damage.
• Corner 5B > 5C > 3C > 623D >> 236C >> 236C > 5B > 5C > 5D > 236D > 2C > 6A > jc j.C > j.D > jc j.D > j.214C >> 214D deals approximately 3500 damage.

 

Location Test #4 Notes

• 5B's recovery may have been increased.
• 5C's untechable time may have been reduced.
• 5D now has Fatal Counter property on Counter Hit.
• 2D hits low again. Still special cancelable.
• 6D no longer launches on hit.
• j.D's untechable time has been reduced. Air hit j.D > Aerial Blood Scythe no longer combos.
• Gauntlet Hades and Aerial Gauntlet Hades cause different float states.
• D Inferno Divider's landing recovery may have been increased.
• Nightmare Edge has minimal recovery on whiff and is seldom unfavorable on hit.
• Tsuika Kougeki (Nightmare Edge) cannot be Distortion Drive canceled. Does not connect if Nightmare Edge hits from behind.
• Carnage Scissors' lifesteal has been increased.
   
• Nightmare Edge >> Tsuika Kougeki deals 1600 damage raw.
• Mid-screen damage can go over 3000 by performing 2D > 236D > dc dash 5C > air combo.
• Combos starting with Gauntlet Hades deal approximately 3000 damage.
• Near-corner FC 6D > j.D (whiff) > 5B > 5C > 6C > 214D > 3C > 22C > 236D > 5B > 5C > jc j.C > j.D > jc j.C > j.214C deals approximately 3800 damage.

 

Final Changes

• NEW SPECIAL: Nightmare Edge (j.214C) >> Tsuika Kougeki (214D)
  Replaces Belial Edge
  A multi-hit airborne special that sends the opponent directly down to the ground. Combos off j.C and j.D. Fully untechable, so being too far away to land intermediate hits is not a problem. Last hit ground bounces and downs on Counter Hit. Has a follow-up attack with Soul Eater property that causes heavy blowback on hit. (OD) Tsuika Kougeki (Nightmare Edge) wall bounces on hit and is dash cancelable on hit or block.
   
• EXCEED ACCEL: Seed of Tartarus (A+B+C+D during Over Drive)
  New universal mechanic. Relatively short range. Causes low wall bounce on hit, and grants Active Flow if not already granted that round. If performed during Active Flow, the animation on hit changes and damage is greatly increased. Automatically ends Over Drive on use.
   
• Character Combo Rate has been reduced to 60%.
• Over Drive duration range has been changed to 4-8 seconds. Universal change.
• Lifesteal modifier has been changed to 100% > 100% > 100% > 100% > 100% > 110% > 120% > 130% > 140% > 150% (max).
   
• 6B now forces crouching state on hit. Starter rating is now FAST (Short).
• j.A is no longer self-cancelable on whiff.
• j.B's sprite has been tweaked.
• 5D now has Fatal Counter property on Counter Hit.
• 2D now starts up slightly faster than before. No longer a low. Now special cancelable on hit or block. Knocks down on air hit. (OD) 2D has reduced untechable time on hit.
• 6D's foot attribute invulnerability starts earlier. Now staggers on ground hit. Now has Fatal Counter property on Counter Hit.
• Crush Trigger now starts up faster than before. Uncharged version has less advantage on crush and lower P2 on hit. Charging Crush Trigger for a short period of time is equivalent to using it in previous iterations. Universal change. Now bounces slightly on air hit.
• (OD) Tsuika Kougeki (Hell's Fang) is now dash cancelable on hit or block.
• C Inferno Divider's starter rating is now MOMENT (Very Short). D Inferno Divider no longer has Fatal Counter property on Counter Hit.
• Yoko Fukitobashi's horizontal blowback now has the opponent drop as they fly backwards. Landing recovery has been increased.
• Kakato Otoshi's landing recovery has been increased.
• The regular version of Dead Spike now causes blowback on ground hit.
• Mada owari ja nee zo (DC) > dash 5C is now easier.
• Aerial Blood Scythe is now slower to start up. Both regular versions of Blood Scythe now slide on hit. Both Over Drive versions now cause a spinning state with a high ground bounce on hit.
• Carnage Scissors now starts up faster. Starter rating is now FAST (Short).
• Black Onslaught now starts up much faster than before.

 

Damage/Proration List
Note: Changes are in bold.

Character Combo Rate: 60% (previously 70%)

5A - Damage: 300, P1: 100%, P2: 80% (previously 77%)
5B - Damage: 660, P1: 100%, P2: 89%
5C - Damage: 900 (previously 800), P1: 100%, P2: 92%
2A - Damage: 300, P1: 100, P2: 80% (previously 77%)
2B - Damage: 550 (previously 500), P1: 90%, P2: 85%
2C - Damage: 800 (previously 720), P1: 100%, P2: 89%
6A - Damage: 700 (previously 620), P1: 90%, P2: 79%
6B - Damage: 800 (previously 720), P1: 80%, P2: 89% (bonus 110%)
6C - Damage: 700*2 (previously 620*2), P1: 90%, P2: 82% (once) (previously 92%)
3C - Damage: 900 (previously 720), P1: 90%, P2: 92%
j.A - Damage: 300, P1: 80%, P2: 80% (previously 77%)
j.B - Damage: 600 (previously 500), P1: 80%, P2: 85%
j.C - Damage: 900 (previously 620), P1: 80%, P2: 89%

5D - Damage: 500, 600 (previously 500, 680), P1: 100%, P2: 94%, 84% (previously 84% (once))
(OD) 5D - Damage: 500, 660 (previously 500, 780), P1: 100%, P2: 94%, 84% (previously 84% (once))
2D - Damage: 800 (previously 750), P1: 100% (previously 80%), P2: 82% (previously 94%)
(OD) 2D - Damage: 880 (previously 850), P1: 100% (previously 80%), P2: 82% (previously 94%)
6D - Damage: 1000 (previously 750), P1: 80% (previously 90%), P2: 84% (bonus 110%) (previously 94%)
(OD) 6D - Damage: 1100 (previously 850), P1: 80% (previously 90%), P2: 84% (bonus 110%) (previously 94%)
j.D - Damage: 740 (previously 590), P1: 80%, P2: 79% (previously 75%)
(OD) j.D - Damage: 814 (previously 690), P1: 80%, P2: 79% (previously 75%)

Forward Throw - Damage: 0, 1500 (previously 0, 1400), P1: 100%, P2: 100%, 50% (previously 100%, 60%)
Back Throw - Damage: 0, 1500 (previously 0, 1400), P1: 100%, P2: 100%, 50% (previously 100%, 60%)
Air Throw - Damage: 0, 1500 (previously 0, 1400), P1: 100%, P2: 100%, 50% (previously 100%, 60%)
NEW! Crush Trigger (uncharged) - Damage: 1000, P1: 80%, P2: 60%
Crush Trigger (charged) - Damage: 1000, P1: 80%, P2: 100%

NEW! Seed of Tartarus - Damage: 600, 2450, P1: 100%, P2: 100% (raw), 80% (combo)
NEW! (AF) Seed of Tartarus - Damage: 600, 700*4, 2450, P1: 100%, P2: 100% (raw), 80% (combo)

Hell's Fang - Damage: 900 (previously 730), P1: 80% (previously 90%), P2: 92% (previously 82%)
Tsuika Kougeki (Hell's Fang) - Damage: 1000 (previously 950), P1: 100%, P2: 82% (previously 92%)
(OD) Tsuika Kougeki (Hell's Fang) - Damage: 1100 (previously 1150), P1: 100%, P2: 82% (previously 92%)
Gauntlet Hades - Damage: 800, P1: 90%, P2: 92%
Aerial Gauntlet Hades - Damage: 700, P1: 90%, P2: 92%
Keri Age - Damage: 800, P1: 100%, P2: 82% (previously 75%)
(OD) Keri Age - Damage: 880 (previously 1000), P1: 100%, P2: 82% (previously 90%)
Inferno Divider - Damage: 600*2 (previously 550*2), P1: 60% (previously 80%), P2: 82% (previously 92%)
Aerial Inferno Divider - Damage: 600*2 (previously 550*2), P1: 60% (previously 85%), P2: 82% (previously 92%)
Inferno Divider - Damage: 600*2, P1: 100%, P2: 82% (previously 92%)
(OD) Inferno Divider - Damage: 660*2 (previously 700*2), P1: 100%, P2: 82% (previously 92%)
Aerial Inferno Divider - Damage: 600*2, P1: 100%, P2: 82% (previously 92%)
(OD) Aerial Inferno Divider - Damage: 660*2 (previously 700*2), P1: 100%, P2: 82% (previously 92%)
Upper - Damage: 460 (previously 310), P1: 100%, P2: 92% (previously 100%)
Yoko Fukitobashi - Damage: 500 (previously 400), P1: 100%, P2: 82% (previously 70%)
Kakato Otoshi - Damage: 1400 (previously 480), P1: 100%, P2: 82% (previously 92%)
(OD) Kakato Otoshi - Damage: 1540 (previously 680), P1: 100%, P2: 82% (previously 92%)
Dead Spike - Damage: 900 (previously 1000), P1: 80% (previously 90%), P2: 82% (previously 92%)
(OD) Dead Spike - Damage: 900, 300*2 (previously 600*3), P1: 80% (previously 90%), P2: 82% (once) (previously 92% (once))
Blood Scythe - Damage: 1250 (previously 1200), P1: 80% (previously 90%), P2: 84% (previously 82%)
(OD) Blood Scythe - Damage: 1375 (previously 1400), P1: 80% (previously 90%), P2: 84% (previously 82%)
Aerial Blood Scythe - Damage: 1000 (previously 900), P1: 80% (previously 90%), P2: 84% (previously 82%)
(OD) Aerial Blood Scythe - Damage: 1100, P1: 80% (previously 90%), P2: 84% (previously 82%)
NEW! Nightmare Edge - Damage: 560*N, P1: 80%, P2: 89%
NEW! Tsuika Kougeki (Nightmare Edge) - Damage: 1200, P1: 100%, P2: 82%
NEW! (OD) Tsuika Kougeki (Nightmare Edge) - Damage: 1320, P1: 100%, P2: 82%
Mada owari ja nee zo - Damage: 0, 1110 (previously 0, 952), P1: 100%, P2: 100%, 92%

Carnage Scissors - Damage: 1250, 3200 (previously 1000, 2500), P1: 80% (previously 85%), P2: 82% (once) (previously 92%)
Minimum Damage: 20% (previously 30%)
(OD) Carnage Scissors - Damage: 1250, 3200, 320*4 (previously 1000, 2500, 300*4), P1: 80% (previously 85%), P2: 82% (once) (previously 92%*2, 99%*4)
Minimum Damage: 20% (previously 30%)
Yami ni Kuwarero - Damage: 0, 4000 (previously 0, 2700), P1: 100%, P2: 100%, 25% (previously 100%, 5%)
Minimum Damage: 25% (previously 30%)
(OD) Yami ni Kuwarero - Damage: 0, 5000 (previously 0, 5400), P1: 100%, P2: 100%, 25% (previously 100%, 5%)
Minimum Damage: 25%

[Tong]

Hmm we dont have much info about Ragna right now, but I'm certain the new air move is a Drive move and has two parts, with the second having slide properties.

Might be a possible substitute to Belial Edge with the benefit of having Life Drain properties, or just yet another new move.

 

The loketest next week should give us more clear answers since movelists are usually released.

[Final Ultima]

Tong said:

Hmm we dont have much info about Ragna right now, but I'm certain the new air move is a Drive move and has two parts, with the second having slide properties.

It's three hits. The third hits has Soul Eater properties. I suspect that said third hit is a follow-up.

A few other curious things I noticed regarding damage, although obviously due to the nature of the teaser they could've thrown any old values in there, so take this all with a pinch of salt:-

Ragna's new special, after a 3-hit combo ending in j.D at 1424, increased the combo damage to 1618 -> 1791 -> 2110. That last hit packs a noticable punch.

Damage on 6C is up from 979 total to 1047 total.

The trailer shows a 5-hit combo ending in Hell's Fang -> Tsuika Kougeki dealing 2399. Ragna is some distance away when he does Hell's Fang, and you can see the Soul Eater visual effect, so the preceeding attack is most likely 5D. Similarly, this doesn't match Ragna's existing damage values. It seems he's gotten a damage buff somewhere.

Damage on the new OD-only Distortion Drive is rather underwhelming, 2010 total, weaker than a regular Carnage Scissors. Damage on the first hit is small, around mid-600s from the looks of it. Presumably the first hit just has an awful P1 and the minimum damage is where it all comes together.

Edit: The new special is called Nightmare Edge, which now replaces Belial Edge. The last hit is a follow-up, as suspected. No special name, just another Tsuika Kougeki. His Exceed Accel is called Seed of Tartarus. Recent Famitsu scans show that the Active Flow version opens up the scythe for increased damage.

[KayEff]

 

ragna loketest 1 changes

BBCFラグナは今のトコ

・2D必キャン可 2D special cancellable

・5C>2Dガト削除？5C > 2D gatling gone?

・6B強制しゃがみくらい？ 6B forcing crouch?

・新技は強制ダウンで追撃不可？ nightmare edge always downs opponent, impossible to follow up?

・2Dchは立ちくらみに変更？ ch 2D causes stagger? (dunno if  立ちくらみ means stagger, lit. means the sensation you get from standing up too quickly)

ツイッターで拾えた情報はこんなもんかな？ 新しい調整みるとワクワクするね

 

[floatwater]

Watching the Arcsys stream the only thing that was changed that was shown was that GH floats on airborne hits instead of a bounce. it's pretty similar to air GH sort of low float

[Koga_Noid]

I'll toss this here since there's no CF video thread up yet. Ragna vs Naoto from the Loketest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgdFWuCcuRs

[floatwater]

The link sends to Naoto v Hibiki 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLlF9S0QYVI  Here was the footage

[Koga_Noid]

The link sends to Naoto v Hibiki 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLlF9S0QYVI  Here was the footage

Huh, that's weird. Thanks for fixing that for me.

Anyway onto gameplay stuff. Looks like we still have CPEX Axe Kick as of right now, and the basic Hell's Fang combo did get a small damage increase. I remember seeing yesterday on Twitter about how 6B forces crouch now.

And if that 5C>2D gatling really is gone, then we'll probably be able to do 5C < 2C < 2D < D ID now, since 2D is also special cancelable.

I wonder how good TK Nightmare Edge will be on block, I like to do TK BE sometimes just to throw people off. There's still two more days of the loketest so maybe we can see the new move in action.

[KayEff]

more tweets

 

RAGNA@BBCP勢 ‏@2yamamoto15  3h3 hours ago

BBCFラグナ

 

既存と変わりないがGHのはね方がまた変化。 画面端コンのB、C、DIDのコンボは繋がるが2C、D、DSの後の立ちBは繋がらなかった。 画面中央のB、6A、GHコンボは繋がった。

 

much of ragna is the same, but gauntlet hades' bounce changed again. corner 5B > 5C > 623D >> 236C >> 236C works, but a 5B after 2C > 5D > 236D does not work. midscreen 5B > 6A > GH works.

 

RAGNA@BBCP勢 ‏@2yamamoto15  3h3 hours ago

BBCFラグナ

 

ODしてABCD全押しのエクシードアクセルのダメージは2151。 ヒートゲージを使わないのでとても強い。 キャンセルすれば軽く4000は超えそう。 #BBCFロケテ

 

Exceed Accel (pressing ABCD in OD) damage = 2151. Does not use heat, so it's very strong. Can easily break 4000 if can cancel into it.

 

 

西住流ラグナ使い ‏@ragneet  4h4 hours ago

CFラグナ

2C〉2D繋がるな。(5B〉5C〉2C〉2D〉ヘルズ追加2500ちょい)

6B〉2D出る(6B強制しゃがみ食らいだから必ず繋がる)

2D〉DlDがキャラによって繋がりにくい(ヒビキに5B〉2C〉2D〉DlD繋がらなかった)

 

2C > 2D works (5B > 5C > 2C > 2D > HF = easy 2.5k)

6B still gatlings into 2D (6B forces crouch so 2D afterwards has to connect)

2D > DID might be character specific (5B > 2C > 2D > DID does not work against hibiki)

 

あず ‏@azure__  3h3 hours ago

CFラグナ

・5C>2C>2Dが繋がる

・2D必キャン可。ただし2D上段

・GH端は既存コンで3400程。

・BS(地上)はヒットで少しスライドする。

・全体的にコンボ時間が減少してる？CPコンボで青になること多々

・DIDchはフェイタル

・6B強制しゃがみくらいで2D繋がる

 

5C > 2C > 2D works

2D is special cancellable, but is not a low anymore

current GH corner combo is 3.4k

BS causes sliding on ground hit

combo time decreased in general? lots of cp combos are now blue (invalid)

ch DID is still fatal

6B forces crouch, so 2D connects

[Verimeloni]

 j.214d 2a combo

Edited August 27, 2015 by Verimeloni

[BlackYakuzu94]

Hmm, the 2D change doesn't look that bad in action, especially since you can get an easy confirm off Dead Spike if it hits. 

You can't even do Midscreen NE combos like with BE ;_;

[Verimeloni]

16:32

did ragna's 5A just hit hazama crouching or was it his ghost standing hurtbox?

[floatwater]

You could always do that. this goes for anyone who's 5A doesn't hit crouchers normally.

[KayEff]

huh, they changed ragna's j.B sprite

they also brought back 5C > 2D gatling

Edited August 29, 2015 by KayEff

[Verimeloni]

throw > 214d > dash 2b > 5b > gh

 

[SolheartStud]

From the CF Loketest Newsthread:
 

OD Hell's Fang now is dash cancel-able

Counter Hit Nightmare Edge can now connect with 6C.

3C>2D connects, can even followup with a Dead Spike

Ragna seems more of a beginner class character, eliminating any complicated combo routes or sort. Good to start off with but ends up being plain and basic.

Even during a fatal counter, Nightmare Edge cannot pursue.

6D doesn't cause the opponent to float as much, after a JD wiff, 5B or 5C is the best it can do. A side-dash 6A won't reach.

Mid-Screen "Not over yet" (22C) will push the opponent less. 22C>Dash Cancel>5C is easier to pull off.

CID is an F Starter?

Aerial Blood Scythe has bigger cool down? 
 

6D>JD is too difficult to pull off, I was only able to do it once. But even if I miss, I still can combo into things so I guess it's OK.

5C>low air Gauntlet Hades is now gone.

5B>5C>2D>Dead Spike>Dash Cancel>Dash 5C, I was able to do up to 5C but couldn't connect it with a 5D afterwards. Only Aerials?

6D>JD>Dash 5B>6A seems like the basic combo.

JD doesn't make the opponent float too much any more.

[Verimeloni]

Ragna seems more of a beginner class character, eliminating any complicated combo routes or sort. Good to start off with but ends up being plain and basic.

:/

[Tong]

That's how we like our spiked haired boy lol

But yea, I was hoping for a more technical and interesting Ragna in this version.

[Tong]

2D is a low again and still special cancellable! Rejoice.

[Verimeloni]

On 29.10.2015 19.34.17, Tong said:

2D is a low again and still special cancellable! Rejoice.

meterless dead spike combo from safejump j.C in the corner? (j.C 5B 5C 2D DS...)

[Final Ultima]

Damage and proration values have now been added to the opening post. Source: Tora

[Putin]

Why can Ragna get 3.1k off crouching 2A without AF

[KayEff]

holy shit those damage buffs

[Final Ultima]

If he didn't have those damage buffs to help out early on, his extended combo damage would have been pretty dire now that his character combo rate has dropped again, especially with all those proration nerfs on his specials. They definitely seem to be incentivising shorter conversions this time round though.

That being said though, that damage buff on Kakato Otoshi... it's no wonder why Inferno Divider et al took such a hit to proration.

[KayEff]

combo damage may not have changed much, but at least the abare is stronger now