[CF] Noel Vermillion Loktest and Changes Discussion.

[LunaKage]

6B > 5D > d.5C > d.6B > d.6A > d.5B > 236A~66 > 5B > 5C > Air combo did 3.3k.

Can't remember if it was a full air combo or just j,C > RB~j.2C, but still. It's the basic Midscreen overhead damage, but the positioning loss makes it hurt a lot still.

[Litherain-XIII]

a few notes i have from vids:

J.D regained its forward momentum. no longer stationary like its CPEX counterpart

d.6B is still in the game. Seems to still count as an OH or players are still intent on high blocking it otherwise. she has the ability to still do certain combo paths via > d.6A > d.6B > d.5C > d.6B > chamber shot. her d.6B OS  still works. she can still go into j.B > d.6B on landing frames and the d.6B still counts as an OH so this must mean she still has drive mix ups as also evident in other matches i seen where a few noels start to apply d.6B in her drive pressure  / mix ups.

Chamber shot appears to have shorter recovery time.... need second opinon

drive starter 5D still has no invuln - in case you were wondering.

4D > d.2D > d.6A > d.5B > 236A > dash cancel > 5B > 5C > j.C~ this works. did 2478.

her cmd throw Muzzle flitter now does 1200 raw damage instead of 1600. 400 point difference.

crouching hit confirm 2A > 2B > 2C > 5C > 3C doesnt work anymore. 3C gets blocked after the 5C even with opponent in crouching hitstun. this may indicate 3C combo routes are almost dead if on short starters. ive seen it work on another confirm iirc it was a 5B starter. ill check later.

OD > 5B > 5C > 5D > spring raid > 5C no longer works. opponent tech right before 5c can hit them. OD combos are dead...? RIP...smh...

on confirms into revolver blast > j.2C followup there seems to be a consistency problem with j.2C hitting opponents it tends to whiff in some instances so far as ive seen otherwise it normally connects in other cases.

CH 5C > 214A punish combo so far has led up to 4.3k but was unfinished but was near the end of the combo. im expecting around 4.5k at the max.

There's a blockstring involving noel doing 5A > 2A > 2C > 2A (after 2C recovery frames) 2C might have better frame advantage (maybe +2 or +3 not sure also 5A hits haku while hes blocking low.  her 5A still hits crouchers but is character specific now imo) this is an educated guess based on the fact that hakumen's blocking frame animation (the blocker of the pressure string) did not change or flinch with his blocking animations in between the 2C recovery frames and the 2A follow up and was also normal blocking without barrier or IB. In her CP era counterpart, 2C > 2A would force a block animation to switch  into a crouching animation then back into a blocking animation again in between the 2C and the 2A follow up from noel. this alone led me into 3 conclusions either her 2C is more plus on block or its recovery frames is faster or lastly her 2A is faster than 6 frames on startup (this i kinda doubt to be the case so im leaning on the aforementioned)

seen 5B catch jump outs after a 2C on barrier block. 5B > 2C (on barrier) > 665B  catch her opponents jump out attemp. tested on CPEX and i couldnt get the same situation to be dupicated. this for me kinda confirms my suspicion on 2C's frame advantage being increased now. its more than likely now imo.

[LunaKage]

I mean, I'm happy with a lot of stuff she got, but her combo potential really has me annoyed and angered.

Also, I saw a Noel do 2A > 5B > 5C > 3C on crouching and it still worked, the resulting combo into air combo did 2.3k, which is pathetic, since we get 3k off of that confirm in CPEX. But I also saw the situation you were talking about when it didn't connect. It's possible that she delayed the 3C too much, or the hitstun was slightly decreased, meaning we can't extend the pre-3C string too much, and we gotta leave out the 2C. Also, if you're correct about 2C being better on block, it's possible it's better on hit too, meaning we might have 2C > 3C on crouching again.

[Tenryuga]

Gonna drop this here:

https://youtu.be/9g3B5fG2n24?t=475

d.6C seems to recover super fast but I'm not sure if its even or a slight negative because Noel was counterhit at one point then counter hits the other player at others. 6D is the god. Now that d.4D is gone are we limited to ending our combos with either the chamber shot or air combo into 2C unless we hit crouchers? Do you guys have any ideas for possible routes from this?

 

[LunaKage]

We've talked about a lot of this in this very thread actually lol

Yeah, Noel looks super bad in this loketest. We're pretty much just waiting for the next loketest in hopes that they corrected stuff. I believe the new loketest is this weekend, I don't know for sure.

[Tenryuga]

Damn. I just hope they didn't gut her damage output and make it so she can get solid damage and oki midscreen. I'm glad that some stuff seems to be getting better frames and that chamber shot makes it easier to get actual pressure though since they only fly to midscreen. Was a little annoying having to chase ppl down. 

[Litherain-XIII]

j.2C air recovery frames is definitely faster than it use to be. she was able to do sj.C > j.2C > late falling j.C where atleast 1 or 2 hits of j.C came out before she landed to the ground. this wasnt possible in CP as she woud always get the startup frames out but never the flares doing the same action she would need to be higher and normally required a double jump to get this to happen in CP so this confirms j.2C recovery frames. also may hint at a possible new combo route in corner after j.2C corner wallbounce

 

Also OD combo off spring raid is possible with 6C as a follow up. not favorable imo but its something.

 

 

Heres a combo with the j.2C wallbounce involved using j.C as a follow up

 

 

[LunaKage]

As long as we're ending every combo in Revolver Blast, I'm not gonna be happy. Because that's awful.

[Canine]

If I may chime in, as upset as I am about air combos being poop from what we've seen so far like some others, ground combos might be neater? I dunno maybe other people thought about it but d5B air hit>d6D might be a thing for midscreen shenanigans? Further improved corner carry ? As much as I hate the focus being back on ground stuff since our flexibility is pretty much out the window if that's the case.. (even more so since a lot of ground drive strings don't seem to actually WORK even on crouch as previously mentioned)

I am not a happy camper with current CF Noel /o Alas, time will hopefully tell ya?

[L0n3l1eR]

noel new info from the third loketest by watagashi. thanks sacred saber.

- 5A back to hitting crouching hurtboxes (it wasn't in the 2nd loke)

- 2B starter combo time reduced to Fast (same as 5A and 2A)

- 5B has a better lower hitbox

- 6B damage increased; starter combo time might be F?

- 5C recovery reduced back to CPEX's

- 6C (1) can't be jump canceled on hit; untech time reduced; 6C (1) > 3C gatling added

- 6C (2) floats less on hit; less untech time; can't be normal canceled

- 2D forces crouch on hit; foot invul is not 1f

- 6D crosses up if glued to opponent; has body invul at some point but not in the latter half of the move

- 4D doesn't float on hit anymore; has body invul but maybe less?

- j.2C wallbounds in corner

- j.D's inertia is back to CP1's. but it's slow like CPEX's

- j.4D removed

- cr.5B has a better upper hitbox

- cr.2D looks like 2D

- cr.6D looks like 6D; it dodged Kagura's flash kick so it might have invul too

- cr.4D looks like 4D

- 236C doesn't move forward anymore? but has longer reach; corner 5B > 5C > 236C > 5B pickup works

- 236A/B both make opponent float farther away on hit; stuff like 5D > cr.6A > cr.5B > 236A > dash cancel 5B works

- 623D blows opponent away horizontally now; can pick it up with 5A in the corner; OD ver works the same way so rip midscreen combos

- 214D floats less on hit

- j.214C~2C gives you a knockdown closer to you now

- 22C hitbox nerfed?

- Drive reload time reduced

- You can't do the "j.D landing cancel > cr.6B" thing anymore

 

[Finuve]

so, j.D is better than CPEX but worse than CP1? I'm guessing they can tech j.C > j.D?

[MLSTRM]

RIP j.4D, you will be missed.

[ivanchu77]

Noel combo video

 

[MLSTRM]

Wow the new 2D and 6D are looking pretty sweet, combo routes are looking pretty nice as well, even though they're pretty different to CPEX so I guess there's some serious relearning to do.

Also wow that EA animation is amazing.

[Adrigreat]

I am planning on asking a friend of mine to check some Noel CF stuff out, since he lives close to the R1 NESiCA cabs that have the game.

Anything important you guys want him to test(other than combos, since he is a Litchi player)?

(Also first post, hello everyone!)

[LunaKage]

What's up man, welcome to the Noel forums, were women are women, and men don't get women.

Honestly there's nothing specific I want tested, other than combos, since all I really want to know is if we can still get into 22B oki.

[BurgerMcnasty]

Hey guys! Recently got to play CF so wanted to share some of my thoughts.

-6D is incredibly good. Good neutral tool and also has good invun ( cleanly beat Nu's swords/Litchi's staff/ Jin iceswords) mid drive it's good also(cross up low ayyee)

-Drive cancels are still in the game. Drive cancel>cr.6D potentially can be super good in addition to stand d.6B mixup

-New 2D is also super useful. Pretty much a call out move to beat lows (Beat litchi 3C clean and also beat Arakune ground shark clean)

-6A possibly got faster (felt that way but maybe I'm just trippin)

-3C fatal is pretty nice. Pretty sure can lead to big damage now.

-Crush trigger is supppeerrrr fast

-CP1.0 J.D is back. You can dash over and do the j.D mixup again with ease. Doesn't lead to that much damage but combo after does give you a knockdown.

-ch5C>MF damage seems to be nerfed but proration may have improved? (I did a pickup into a standard air combo and. It did around 4.3k)

-New optic barrel is super nice. Depending on combos they float higher which can lead to corner carry

-Assault through doesn't seem to be minus on hit anymore (?)

New chamber shot is great. Easier to pick up off of and midscreen combos are possible with rcing it again (though i could never do a super hype combo ;_;)

Hmm...i think that's all i have for now but if you guys have any further questions i would be happy to answer them!

On another note.... (Exceed accel is supperrr hype and strangely has a good vertical hitbox lmao)

[LunaKage]

Cool man, sounds good. How did 5A feel? Did they really nerf it's startup?

[Demon Wind Bomb]

6 hours ago, BurgerMcnasty said:

Hmm...i think that's all i have for now but if you guys have any further questions i would be happy to answer them!

On another note.... (Exceed accel is supperrr hype and strangely has a good vertical hitbox lmao)

Here's a question. How good do you think 2D would be for calling out jump-outs?

[Litherain-XIII]

Hey Luna you can still go into 22B oki in the corner ive seen it once in a vid (cant find it atm it might be on a twitch archive iirc)

http://www.twitch.tv/fantasistaokayama/v/26483776 

check this out noel is mostly past 8:00:00 part of the vid i think its in one of those matches against litchi

[LunaKage]

That wont even load for me man lol. I guess an over 8 hour video is too much for my internet.

[Finuve]

Ill be in japan for 2.5 weeks starting december 16th. Ill get some Noel time then. Excited after burger's post

[NaotoKuroShiro]

Noel Basic combos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpahq7F1Sco

[L0n3l1eR]

@burger 4D is the same, worst , better?

[Litherain-XIII]

Atm from wat i saw, 4D was returned to its former iteration before the CP era in which it no longer floats on hit and instead causes them to be in stun state like how CH 6C does currently in CP but the stun time is pretty long from the vids ive seen. its long enough for her to CH 4D > reload > 5B > 6A > combo. So basically its like CS2 4D except it has no fatal counter. it still seems to be over 25 frames on  startup and its invuln was stated to start on frame 4. idk how long the invuln last unfortunatley.

 

Also side note on the case of invuln on our drives this is a list from changes they last tested for the drives:

・2D無敵遅く(1F足無敵→5F足無敵）

・4D無敵遅く(1F体無敵→4F体弾無敵)

・6D無敵早く(7F体無敵→4F体弾無敵)