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Dawn of Musou

[CF] Jin Kisaragi Gameplay Discussion Thread (Pre-Release Date)

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Very huge thanks to isukagg for providing most of the info and special thanks to Seo, Sourenga, zephyr07, hakimiru and Argent Zero for the help with the translations.

 

Loketest 1 (July 19th-July 20th):

 

 

 

-Overdrive and Burst

  • Overdrive time is now displayed in seconds. Jin's Overdrive time at full health (90%~100% HP) lasts 2 seconds, but at the lowest health possible (1%~9% HP), it lasts 10 seconds.
  • After you use your burst, a number is displayed in your burst icon, showing how long you have until you get it back. 0 is when the burst gauge is least filled, and it will slowly count up to 10 (you don't see the number 10 because as 9 goes to 10, the icon becomes yellow again.)
  • Overdrive duration is now the same, whether it's an Overdrive cancel or a raw Overdrive. This means things like Throw>cOD and Throw>dc>OD, or 6D>OD and 6D>6C>cOD will all have the same Overdrive time. Now it's better to go for 6D>6C>cOD because you get the same duration, but it's easier for combos and you get more damage potential.

 

-Exceed Accel and Active Flow

  • Exceed Accel: Kokuujin Ougi: Gekka Hyourou (A+B+C+D while in Overdrive). Costs no meter but automatically ends Overdrive once used, whether on hit or block. Has full invincibility from startup and is overall very safe on block. Can hold A+B+C+D to activate Overdrive and then keep holding to go straight into Exceed Accel, shortening its startup.
  • Gekka animation starts by slicing diagonally upwards. Range is half the length of 623B but it has thicker width. Once it hits, Jin will trap the opponent in a giant ice pillar before jumping up and slashing them many times. Then it ends with Jin slamming the opponent down.
  • Can see some of it quickly in the trailer.
  • Gekka does about 2000 damage regularly and 4000 damage when in Active Flow.
  • Gekka has 1000 minimum damage at the end of a combo. Unsure if that was with Active Flow or not.
  • Can combo into Gekka from any Overdrive freeze move. Can do 6C>EA in corner only.
  • OD 236D>RC>EA is a strong way to do damage anywhere on screen. Will do about 1300 damage.
  • When you are in Active Flow, a purple pattern shows around your burst icon and portrait. Increases damage by 10% and Burst gauge recovery rate. Can only happen once per round and lasts 10 seconds.
  • You can activate Jin's Active Flow by hitting your opponent with 6A 3 times. You also get "Active Points" by doing "skillful actions" and "good reads". In addition to hitting, forward dashing and pressuring, you'll gain "Active Points" by blocking highs and lows correctly, countering aerial hit with head-invincibility move, doing Perfect Block and teching Throws. Negative Penalty takes away your Barrier, causes Danger state and gives the opponent Active Flow.

 

-Normals:

 

 

≪5A≫

  • Is now +1 on block.
  • Can still cancel into 6A.

 

≪2A≫

  • Still jump-cancelable on block.
  • Since 5B>6A is gone, going into 6A from 2A is going to happen a lot more! (Also from 5A, but that won't hit crouchers.)

 

≪6A≫

  • Still disadvantageous on block

  • Still can only combo by Rapid Cancel, can't do astral, an EX move or cOD, however it seems like it's easier to follow up on air hit

  • Can achieve Active Flow by using 6A three times

 

≪5B≫

  • 5B now ±0 on block again.
  • Still can only jump-cancel on hit.
  • 5B>6A removed.
  • 5B>Throw removed.
  • 5B>5A lost to Hakumen's 5A.
  • Also clashed with Noel's 5A.
  • Can get 4.4K off 5B starter meterless in the corner

 

≪6B≫

  • Has increased recovery
  • Now minus on block
  • 6B>5A does not work
  • 6B>5B only works on crouching. Jin has about +5 advantage afterwards
  • CH 6B>6C does not work, however CH 6B>5C does work
  • 2C>6B still works and leads to a combo on air hit
  • Seems like you'll mainly be using 6B in combos to go into specials as most cancels into normals don't work. Things like 6B>j.214C>2B,  6B>236D or 6B>j.214D>6C>2D

 

≪5C≫

  • 5C untechable time on air hit seems to have been reduced. In the following combo: 5B>5C>3C>214D~C>2B>5C>6C, 6C did not connect, but adding a 2C allowed it to connect. 5C>2C>6C still works but it seems 5C>6C will not work on air hit.
  • 5C>6C might still work on crouching hit

 

≪2C≫

  • Still jump-cancelable on block.

 

≪6C≫

  • Float seems to be lower on hit.
  • 6C>6D was very low in height, could not use 5C to pick up for an air combo. This may be due to 6C's lower height or 6D's lower height.
  • 6C>6B removed.
  • Has less blockstun.
  • Still cannot dash cancel.
  • 6C>236D works for a full combo

 

≪3C≫

 

-Drives:

 

 

≪5D≫

  • Still special-cancelable.

 

≪2D≫

  • Still special-cancelable.
  • Still jump-cancelable on hit.
  • Can still cancel into astral on hit.
  • OD 2D>EA works.
  • 2D>6B still does not work

 

≪6D≫

  • During 6C>6D, an opponent tried to hit Jin and it led to a clash. Seems like startup hasn't changed much.
  • Seems to float lower on hit.
  • 6C>6D>6C>6D(non-freeze)>5B is still possible, but the 5B happens faster and at a much lower height.

 

-Specials:

 

≪Throw (B+C)≫ (Including throw in here cause other universal mechanics haven't been posted about yet.)

  • Float height seems to be lower now. Can still combo into 22C and 5C air hit.
  • Throw>dc>OD>5B or 5C still connect, most likely more difficult because of lower float.

 

≪Hishouken (236A)≫

  • Seems to have slower speed. Maybe 1.1 speed?

 

≪Hishousetsu (236D)≫

  • Replaces Hishougeki as the new 236D.
  • A new multi-hit projectile similar to Ky's Force Break or j.D. Jin summons a giant ice crystal near him.
  • Stays in place, does not move.
  • Has 3 hits, all hits will cause freeze. Last hit launches.
  • Has fast startup, 6B>236D, 3C>236D and j.D>236D all combo. Will not combo from j.C or j.2C though. You can delay these for oki.
  • Remains for about 3 seconds if it doesn't touch the opponent.
  • Disappears when Jin is hit, but it remains if he is forced to block.
  • Doesn't seem to change in Overdrive?
  • Still costs 25 meter as all EX specials do
  • 3C>dl236D>6A, 6A connected after the 3rd hit. However, if you time it correctly, you can get 6A to hit before the 3rd hit of 236D, then follow up on that freeze. It's a good way to follow up 6A for only 25 meter! If the opponent blocks 6A, then you are advantageous on block as the 3rd hit of 236D will make you safe.
  • Can be seen for a quick moment in the trailer here

 

≪Rehhyou (623C)≫

  • Now has faster startup, seems to be around 17F now
  • 5B>5C>623C worked on neutral hit
  • Can still be used for corner combos like in 2.0, however the 5B followup seems to be at a lower height
  • CH 623C>5B removed. Can only follow up with 5A. CH 623C>5A>5B works, but 5C drops after. Seems that you have to end with Sekka. CH 623C>5A>5B>22C will be the new combo

 

≪Hirensou (623D)≫

  • Now causes wallstick
  • Can be followed up with 214D
  • 5B>5C>623D>6C works
  • 5B>5C>623D>5C>2C>6C>Rehhyou should be the go-to combo
  • 623D>5C>2C drops. Seems like it's still a very bad starter.

 

≪Hizansen (j.214C)≫

  • Seems to float a little more during Hizansen
  • Causes a stagger down on ground hit, you can follow up with 2B in corner and midscreen for an air combo, but you have to be close to the ground to do it midscreen.
  • Kinda feels like CP2.0 Hizangeki
  • 6B>dl j.214C>2B might work?

 

≪Hizangeki (j.214D)≫

  • Can combo into 6C. Possibly because of more hitstun? 6B>j.214D>6C>2D works midscreen

 

-Supers:

  • Yukikaze's (236236D) damage got a small buff. Went from 3100>3120.
  • Aerial version of Hiyoku Getsumei (j.632146D) still has the taunt animation after hit.
  • For a really high damage ender, you can rapid cancel OD Ice Arrow and go into Gekka. Or use OD Ice Arrow early in the combo and end it with Gekka.

 

-Combos, Combo Theories and New Combo Routes

  • 5B>2B>5C>2C>3C>214B~C. Basic combo, now easier because of new 3C's increased range.
  • 5B>5C>623C can open up new possibilities
  • Throw>CT>6C>6D still works
  • 6C>CT>2C>6B works
  • 6C>236D>OD>6C might work?
  • 5B>5C>623D>5C>2C>6C>623C>5B>22C works
  • 5B>5C>3C>236D should work and be able to be followed up? Possibly with air hit 5C into 623C>stuff since it's faster now?
  • 5C>3C>214D~C>2C>6B>dl j.214C>2B might work if you delay the j.214C enough
  • Throw>dc>5C>2C>6C>214B (whiff)~C. 2B>5B>22C ender still possible, however 214B~C>2B is much harder to do now. Most likely better off going for Throw>dc>22C>5B>2B>5C>3C>214B~C
  • Corner throw combo is the same as CP2.0. Throw>dc>5C>2C>6C>623C>5B>22C
  • j.2C>j.C>j.214C>662B>5C>2C>hjc>j.2C>j.C>j.D>22C>5B>2B>5C>3C>214B~C
  • 6B>j.214D>6C>2D>jc>5B(1)>5C>2C>623C>665B>22C. This route works now because of Hizangeki's change
  • OD 5B>5C>6B>j.214C>6C>623C>EA works. Can most likely add another 6C after 623C
  • 623D>6C>cOD>623C>6B>j.214C>623B>EA works for about 5400. Unknown whether it was in Active Flow or not.
  • Close to corner throw combo: Throw>dc>OD>5C>6B>j.214C>6C>22C>6C>EA
  • In corner: Throw>cOD>623C>6B>j.214C>6C>22C>5C>3C>623B>6C>EA seems to be possible
  • Variation of above: Throw:cOD>6D>623C>6B>j.214C>6C>22C>5C>3C>EA
  • Throw>cOD>dash 623C>6B>j.214C>6C>22C>EA. Could try to put a 6C after the 22C but 22C>6C is very difficult than before.
  • stuff>3C>cOD>5C>EA = easy and good midscreen damage
  • corner stuff>6C>cOD>EA = easy and strong corner damage
  • Seems like high damage combos will now rely on OD Ice Arrow>RC>stuff>Gekka
  • In corner:  6C>6D>OD>632146D>RC>6A>6D>6C>623C>6B>j.214C>6C>EA almost 6900 at the time of the 6C. Couldn't do EA cause OD ended early. Was at 30% health when he started the combo. Will most likely do about 8000 damage if you get EA in at lower health, maybe more if in Active Flow. You can omit the 6C after j.214C and EA will still connect.
  • In corner: 6C>6D>6C>cOD>632146D>RC>6A>623C>6B>j.214C>6C>22C>EA = 7582 damage. Done with Active Flow activated. Can add a 6C after 22C for more damage but it is difficult to time correctly. Might do more damage if you do 6A later in the combo?
  • In corner: OD>6D>632146D>RC>6A>623C>6B>j.214C>6C>22C>6C>EA = 9012 damage. Most likely during Active Flow. It was really surprising to see Jin do more than 9K damage! Maybe it can be further optimized if you do 6A later in the combo?

 

 

Closed Loketest 2 (August 24th):

 

  • 6C>2D>CT>2C (air hit)>6B>j.214D>6C/2C works
  • Overdrive 3C causes freeze.
  • Corner 6C>623C>5A works
  • Can still use 5C after 214B~C to catch rolls
  • Midscreen OD Ice Arrow>RC>6C>EA works
  • Can possibly follow up CH j.214C with 2C or 6C?
  • air hit j.D>214C>2B>5C>2C>623C>5A/5B. I believe he says the 214C has to be close to the ground, so you gotta delay it after j.D.
  • 6B/3C>236D>j.2C>j.C>j.214C>2B>5C>2C>623C>5A/5B
  • CH 623C>5A>5C>2C>hjc>j.C>j.D>22C>5C>3C>214B~C works
  • 2C>5C works again
  • Can still whiff 214B and use 2B after C followup for pickup combos. Possible example: j.214C>2B>(5B)>5C>2C>6C>214B(whiff)>C>2B
  • Because 623C is faster, it's harder to punish reversals.
  • You can't follow up 623D midscreen with new 3C

Various Combo Routes Here:

http://pastebin.com/yFkFGfue

http://pastebin.com/bmNzyBLU

 

 

Edit: Fixed the links that were messed up due to the forum update.

Edit 2: Updated with new info from closed loketest

Edit 3: Small info update

Edit 4: Added links with combos

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I normally don't make a changes thread until the final location test because it mostly only makes people panic when they see some heavy nerfs that sometimes don't make it to the final version but meh, it doesn't hurt to have one now. 

 

New 3C looks cool, definitely better than old 3C. Hishousetsu looks like it will be way better than our current shitty 236D, wonder if we can use it for oki but I'm kinda gonna miss j.236D since it was decent anti-air bait and punish. 5B meterless in the corner sounds way too good to be true but we'll see. 5B > 6A sounds like one helluva nerf, hope it doesn't make it to the final version.

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the new 3C gives me hope that arcsys will give jin a 4C. Maybe make it a quick thrust forward with his sword?

jk aside, not sure how to feel about losing 6C->6B. hopefully they make 6C dash cancelable again

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I think Jin needs an instant overhead if 5B>6A is removed. If he does anything on the ground besides 6A, just guard low and switch to high if he jump cancels. Moreover, 6A is fast but it's so unsafe on block

Well, we've no frame data yet so I'm just stating my opinion

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https://twitter.com/isukagg/status/623179800585175040

 

 

This tweet says 5B>6A and 5B>throw are gone, which we knew already. If I'm seeing the other stuff correctly though, it also says 5B is still only jump-cancelable on hit, but it might be ±0 on block again.

 

Edit: Thanks to hakimiru for confirming that this is true. Also got a bunch of new stuff. I updated the OP.

 

 

 

Also, this guy has a whooole bunch of new Jin info and combos: https://twitter.com/isukagg

 

I believe he starts on the 18th (the stuff on the 17th is theory stuff he came up with or things he wanted to try out). I'll see what I can make of his stuff with my poverty Japanese knowledge and Google Translate until someone better hopefully translates. I'll edit this post with all his tweets first and then what I can understand. Then when it's complete, I'll add it all to the OP

 

 

Edit: All changes have been translated, checked and added to the first post.

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Finally done gathering and translating changes. This should be all that we get for now unless some random info that I didn't see earlier shows up. Next time we can get new info will most likely be at Arc Revo, which is August 15th. CF will be playable there so there's a chance we might get footage as well.

 

 

Now that I've seen all these changes, I'm actually looking forward to CF Jin. I know this is all only first loketest changes, but overall, I like what they're doing with him. Hoping a lot of this stuff stays in the final version. Especially the new Overdrive combos with both Ice Arrow and Exceed Accel for hype damage. Not the 6B changes though. RIP 6B if it stays as it currently is lmao.

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5A +1 da gawd against characters with huge hit-boxes, RIP 6B.

 

Active Flow is sounding like a pretty unbalanced mechanic right now. Plat can use 2A (low) multiple times in a string to keep opponents in check from up+backing. If the opponent decides to just block then you just gave them a bunch of AF points. I guess I need to see this in action in the final version before I do any critiques. 

 

It could be that the changes carry on all the way to the final version. I'm pretty sure that most initial changes made their way to the final version of CP. We'll just have to wait and see. 

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Got from new info from isukagg from the closed loketest so I updated the thread.

 

There is a lot of combo potential here. I like it

 

 

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Hella late but thanks, added the links to the first post

 

5C>6B on crouching is awesome, but 6B nerf still does hurt. 6B>Hizansen>2B is solid tho

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combos from location test 3 (aka probably the final version).

combo wise seems the same as previous location tests, but that obviously isn't hte whole picture. I did see 5C > 6B on crouching hit, which really surprised me, guess they sped it up in exchange for it being negative.

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I'll be going to Round1 on saturday, which will ahve CF, not sure how much i'll get to play as there will probably be a lot of people, but if you ahve anything you want me to test, i'll do it if i can.

from watching a few streams, it seems he's pretty close to what's been shown in the location tests though, so i don't anticipate any surprises. it will likely be a matter of getting used to the new combo routes, blockstrings etc

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So what are the new combo routes thus far? From the videos I've seen, it looks like we'll be doing the same old stuff from CPE. Freeze > 6B > j.214C > OTG > Stuff is the only new thing I've noticed. I'm gonna give up on the 214C OTG combos and go with Fenrichi's mid-sceen DP C route, it's a lot more consistent for me. Fenrichi's route goes something like...

(Crouching Opponent) 5B > 5C > 2C > 6C > 2D > JC > j.2C, 66 5B(1) > 5C > 2C > DB C, 66 5B > 22C.

@shtkn - the only thing that comes to mind at the moment is the efficiency of 236D used for oki. Try it out and see if it's any good.

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Right now routes seem pretty similar to CPEX. Hizansen change makes for good 2B pickups and faster 6B is pretty cool but overall, not much of a difference lol. I'd say try out hizangeki and 236D to see what we can get out of them combo-wise. Thanks for doin this~

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

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236D definitely felt like a good move to me, combos from 3C on everyone i fought, and can be used as a zoning tool. as for oki, i did 3C > 214B(1), 236D and caught someone rolling forward, but i think just comboing from 3C instead is probably better overall. maybe for oki in the corner? for combos, 3C > 236D, 6C > ice car (2) should work (i didn't do it myself, Jyosua told me about it).

new 3C is longer range, but slower than the old one. no longer combos from 5B. Only combos from 5C or 2C.

6C launches lower, changes how high you need to launch the opponent to do the ice car combo extension, haven't found a consistent way to set it up, but i'm sure someone in japan's figured it out by now.

didn't really mess with hizangeki, sorry

also i think 22C has more range now? not sure.

the loss of 5B gatlings will take me some time to get out of my system, gotta use 6D now for the blockstring reset.

also 6B added recovery is definitely noticeable, can still combo into 5B on normal hit, and 6C on counter hit iirc, but the timing definitely throw me off for a while. i guess if you want to take a risk, you can cancel the landing recovery into 22C to fish for a fatal combo starter haha

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did you try the ct classic using the fb star thing with fubuki inbetween 2nd and 3rd hit of it 

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no i didn't, the final hit of 236D launches hte opponent really high, so i was just timing a 2C > 623C, dash 5B > 22C afterwards. i don't think j.236D launches high, but i didn't really try

 

unfortunately, i couldn't go to sparring during the night since as soon as someone enters the other cab, it automatically goes to versus

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tried 236D > 623B > freeze, didn't work, too much recovery, even on air version i think

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Just got the demo, mid-screen DP C combos are hella easy. 6B > j.214C > 66 2B is going to take some getting used to but goddamn 3.7K from a crouching confirm with that. Watched so many videos that I could replicate most of the combos I've seen without effort lol.

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  • Can get 4.4K off 5B starter meterless in the corner



What's the actual combo? on the demo, I tested and got this so far on corner with 5B starter

 

5B,5C,5D, 22C, 6C,6D, 5B,5C,2C,6C,623C, 5B,22C. (it's like 3.4K)

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