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huey253

"Time to Make History" Dustloop Revamp Community Effort #1

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We did discuss making major changes to the matchup sections last night. I'm definintely in favor of making a major shakeup in there since the old ones have always had problems getting discussion.

 

as for how to make it easlily navigatable... that's a another quesiton. i like the drop down idea but i'm not sure if that's possible with our software.

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To follow up on that, the discussion in this thread is being kept track of and the amount of feedback is very welcome, but this thread was constructed to focus on improvements for the front page. Please keep discussion geared around that.

For people who have suggestions for other areas of Dustloop, they will be given space in other threads.

It's great that people do have a lot to say on how to improve the site since it shows how much the community cares for Dustloop. However, for the sake of efficiency in both making sure that ideas are heard as well as structuring discussion so it's easier to pinpoint and address concerns in a timely manner, the idea is to structure threads for a couple of issues at a time.

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We did discuss making major changes to the matchup sections last night. I'm definintely in favor of making a major shakeup in there since the old ones have always had problems getting discussion.

 

as for how to make it easlily navigatable... that's a another quesiton. i like the drop down idea but i'm not sure if that's possible with our software.

 

There's also a problem with matchups when versions change.  I went over to the rachel forums the other day to find that all of the threads were deleted and replaced with CPEX threads. 

 

Obviously, things change, but this is really a waste. Matchups mostly haven't changed and good information isn't accessible anymore.

 

Something I've thought about for a long time is that we could have 'VS' Threads.

 

Pretty much every single person can take advantage of information like, IB JIn's 6B and press 5a.

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There's also a problem with matchups when versions change.  I went over to the rachel forums the other day to find that all of the threads were deleted and replaced with CPEX threads. 

 

Actually, those threads are in the Archives now, not deleted

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why don't we ahve a daily column where the author asks something like "ok venom vs elpelt. you are venom in the corner. both have 25 tension. elphelt kncks you down with bridal express, pulls the pin, throws grenade yrc on your wakeup and enters shotgun stance. what do you do?" or "pot vs ino. you are pot in neutral. ino does tk note 1/2 screen away. is it safe to flick?" basically that chess/bridge column in the newspaper they always have next to the 4komas and sudoku.

 

perks:

- low effort. just take a screencap and write like 15 worsd.

- low barrier to participation. simply leave a comment. it should get the character specialsts oout of the woodwork if nothing else. and hopefully these situations are common and/oir potentially game ending enough that people say out loud "I know exactly what to do" or "this bulshit happens ot me all the time and I'm glad we're talking about it now"

- directly useful and appicable. this is the sort of thinking you wish you had time for ingame, the thinking you do ideally before the match even starts, the intuition that top playewrs have which lets them instantly recognize the situation and prepare the appropriate countermeasures.

- inexhaustible supply of articles. and there will be enough 60 dollar arcsys expansions to make sure you don't ever run out

- can write columns for multiple games. content ftmfw

- can be very topical. so you can point out really cool things that hte commentators didn't notice like when nage backdashed agaist eddie mawaru to get hit airborne, giving nage an out and making ogawa's confirms more difficult

- no other fgc site does this that i know. so you get to write really cool deviantart disclaimers on your original content and really mean it

 

I was also gonna argue in favor of a forums blog feature in the vein of teamliuqid but i guess i can make taht post later.

 

Ironically, there is a fear of discussing game-play attributed to this site.

 

this is my favorite sentence ever written on this website.

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Pretty much every single person can take advantage of information like, IB JIn's 6B and press 5a.

I like the idea, but this is only true for characters whose 5As hit us crouching since our 2A will go under those who don't.

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Right now reddit is booming. Why not take some hints from Reddit and put some of those things into this site?

 

Some rough ideas:

 

-Daily Threads. Monday matchup.  Tuesday Teachings... whatever and so on. 

- Along side the main articles that are written and uploaded by mods/admins there could be a user generated article feed.

-There could be a voting feature on this article feed like reddit.

 

Social Media feeds:

 

-Every time someone mentions Dustloop in a tweet it's displayed on the front page.

-Repeat this for other social media platforms?

 

What i've seen from the front page in my time here is a place that seems always behind. That's why these live feeds would be great to get this place up to date. 

 

I don't know, i think that's all the ideas i can come up with right now. 

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Oh, and i think Dustloop should go into hiatus for however long it takes to redesign it and then have a grand opening once it's ready to launch.

 

We can get updated on it via Social Media. 

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I feel like if there's one type of "discussion" thread that we need, it's a matchup discussion thread.

I'll admit, I haven't checked most of the Matchup forums, but the complaint I've always heard is they're barren and out of date. This isn't really too surprising; if you're expecting one or two moderators to run a matchup thread, chances are they won't have information on the 20-30 matchups whatever game has. It's unreasonable to expect otherwise.

Then, when a thread has no info in it, people are hesitant to post (for reasons already discussed, I don't want to get into that), and a large amount of the Matchup subforum goes to waste.

I feel each character board needs a matchup discussion general. Players can post small bits of information and pose questions relating to any matchup. The moderators can then, ideally, find and test the relevant tech, and add it to the main matchup threads for archival.

I'd test this on the Jam forums, but I think it'd be better to try it on a more active game :p

The problem is not the lack of matchup threads, but that nobody seems to want to actually post in them.  I guess some people are scared to give their thoughts because they think someone is gonna come in and tell them how wrong they are, but there's nothing wrong with struggling with a matchup even if it's one that isn't necessarily some 7-3 nonsense.  I think everyone who has experience with an MU should post even just a little bit of their opinion on what they can do in the MU, the worst case scenario is people find out their tactic isn't so useful and so they look for another.

 

 

That's already happened a few times in the Hakumen General Discussion thread. It's a lot easier for users to respond with a few pieces of information when someone actually has focused questions rather than just writing up something general just for the sake of it to throw into an empty thread. And eventually it accumulates.

 

Yes, exactly.  Matchup discussion should be more fluid and dynamic IMO.  Simply laying out what both characters can do is fine as an entry level but fighting games are not static.  Different players have different styles and different habits, just because I know how to beat one Jin with Relius doesn't mean that my tactics will work on another.  They may not use their tools the same way as the last Jin did, and they may get opened up by things that the other Jin didn't and vice versa.  I definitely agree that having a healthy dialogue on an MU is far more beneficial than "this character beats that character because this reason and here's why."

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Hey. One last reminder: Please stick to front page discussion. There will be future threads to address issues like MU threads, etc. and what to do with the MU threads is already under discussion.

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On the topic of the front page's layout again, if we could center the front page layout so the articles aren't always stretched to the far left, that would likely help. The fact that the articles stretch indefinitely in width really makes it feel pretty weird to look at.

 

Alternatively, I think even just increasing the header font for each post and, if possible, perhaps increasing the gap between each post by a small margin would help towards readability and cleanliness. As it is, it feels rather cluttered and disorganized, to me. This is likely less impactful than just centering everything and setting a maximum width on the front page, though.

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Also on the topic of layout, I feel the categories bar need a overhaul with showing articles based on a certain game/series you want to learn more about (removing the need for the search articles bar which in retrospect should be removed anyway cause we have the primary search bar at the top) or be removed to bring in for the more popular articles at the time to be highlighted or like RandomGamer suggested bring in a social media connection with DL.

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Yes, I wanted to make the side bar on the front page actually useful, but the forum software didn't agree with me :( I can customize it somewhat but it didn't work that well last time i tried when we first moved to the new software. There's a major software update that i've been neglecting. We're on version 3.4 and the latest is 4.0. I remember reading that front page sidebars are more customizable in 4.0

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About the front page, these are my suggestions:

  • Center the logo, make it bigger, add a slogan. Something that lets people know immediately what kind of info is here.
  • Remove everything from the top bar that does not pertain to useful information. It should really only be stuff like Home, Wiki, Forums, Tournament Calendar, Video Databases/Media Section, Tip Submission, and Search on the front page bar. It keeps it from being cluttered with things only signed up users really care to see. You could steal Shoryuken's idea and put matchmaking on there too.
  • Make the "Home" section of the top bar a drop down menu with Categories, Tags, Trending, and Highest Rated/Most Viewed articles options.
  • Remove the login button from the front page. Again, it's related to the forums, which are not a part of the front page.
  • Condense the width of the page. Right now it's stretched too far and it looks very weird because of it.
  • The design itself is very outdated. It definitely needs modernizing. A smoother design, a little darker colors (The white on beige has always been a little taxing on the eyes). and cleaned up articles/sidebars would go a long way.
  • Articles need to share the same height and width. Article icons should always be on the same side (The left), in the same position, with the same size.
  • Article headers should be larger
  • The article text on the front page should only be a sentence or two before it gets cut off. As it is right now MOST of the article is actually on the front page.
  • Remove the star rating system. It looks a little old.
  • Side bars I think should be along the lines of: Tournament News, Upcoming Events, Currently Streaming,  Facebook/Twitter/Twitch, etc. I'd remove everything related to forums, users, and posts. 

I could think of more things, but I figured this'd be enough lol

 

Don't mean to sound too demanding or overbearing, but IMO there really is a lot that needs to be done to bring it up to par.

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It might be better to just remove the teaser/body separation. You could just have the entire thing revealed from the start.

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On the topic of the front page's layout again, if we could center the front page layout so the articles aren't always stretched to the far left, that would likely help. The fact that the articles stretch indefinitely in width really makes it feel pretty weird to look at.

 

Alternatively, I think even just increasing the header font for each post and, if possible, perhaps increasing the gap between each post by a small margin would help towards readability and cleanliness. As it is, it feels rather cluttered and disorganized, to me. This is likely less impactful than just centering everything and setting a maximum width on the front page, though.

Definitely all of this. Finding a way to standardize the format of front page articles is very important for readability. If it is more readable it is more inviting, which is good. You could have two setups 1 that uses smaller images in the header and is more text-heavy and another with a larger image format using less text to catch attention and encourage clicking the article for more details.

 

I also think that navigation on the site is a big issue. Using more clickable graphics would be more straightforward and inviting. You could seperate it by game, where you click on a game logo or placeholder image that could take you to a hub page for that game which would have links to further info for said game (wiki, forum, etc.). Or you could seperate it by resource. A graphic for the wiki, the forums, the video archives, etc.

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This is more about the actual articles on the front page:

 

I love that we are getting more active with the front page. That's great but the articles themselves are kind of...bland?

 

Even though there may not be much to say, it should like there is some effort being put into them. 

 

For example the DFC Localization article:

SRK: http://shoryuken.com/2015/07/29/dengeki-bunko-fighting-climax-finally-arrives-in-north-america-on-october-6/

DL: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php/page/index.html/_/home/dengeki-bunko-fighting-climax-release-date-r502

 

 

See what I mean?

SRK not only put a banner, they talked about the game, developer, and the limited edition goodies that will come with it. 

 

There's a lot of articles right now on the front page that just seem like the writers saw a tweet and put a title on it and called it a news article. I don't mean to offend anyone, I just think it looks unprofessional. Some suggestions:

1.An image never really hurts the article

2. If posting a link to a blog or evernote write up, highlight 1 or 2 important points in the actually DL article rather than just linking. 

3. Proper grammar (I'm not good at this so someone else can suggest resources?)

 

I hope this helps. 

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I was about to make a similar post to the one above me. It's great we're getting new info on it but right now it just looks like a giant Twitter feed.

If it's possible, maybe have a section somewhere where Dustloop's Twitter can be more prominent and show quick information like what is being shown now whereas the articles are actually... Articles, no offense. It can also show others that we do have a Twitter account they can follow.

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I'm down with that. Although the "article" title here might be misleading since we're focusing on news in general at the moment.

Mostly I didn't write up a lot of stuff about some things because there wasn't really anything to say except "here's this thing" and letting the information speak for itself, outside of basically just copying and pasting what was being linked to, which I thought was redundant. But I'll go ahead and fluff it up a bit.

What else?

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That's understandable. It doesn't have to be a lot like for example in the ones about the JP players diaries at EVO, there can be a small blurb, like one sentence, explaining who the players are, the character they play, the game(s) they play etc. Something like that.

Though most probably know woshige since he's (in)famous now haha.

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Do you think the various GG/BB tech videos would be better highlighted individually or grouped together in a kind of Daily Tech Roundup post?

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Depends on how much additional explanation is needed. If the tech videos speak for themselves or can be explained with one liners, I say group them into a daily. If you find yourself having to write a few paragraphs to cover the video, I'd make it an individual article

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