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[CPEX] Izayoi Video Posting / Analysis & Discussion Thread

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*In this thread, you can post any matches you want critiqued or discussed, or you simply think are good references. Matchup specific references, if significant, are also OK, but please mention it. Otherwise, please take it to the matchup specific threads. Combo videos and tutorial videos are OK to discuss as well!


*In this thread you could also post your own analysis if you are so inclined. Why did you think a match was good? What did you take from a match? Hopefully people take stabs at how others break down matches, and try to instruct on the right way to look at certain things, or maybe even learn something from how you look at stuff. Dont be shy, everyone needs to learn to learn ;)


*The initial post is reserved for posting what I believe are matches with a lot to take from, and I'll try to offer a breakdown on WHY they are good, things to look for, and things that are not so good. These matches, I hope are model for reference.


*Here is a collection of Izayoi match videos from the JP Database, feel free to post any matches you find interesting! http://horibuna.web....CP/BBCP_IZ.html


Hi. I decided to do a few things a little differently. In this thread, I'm going to hand pick matches to post, and offer a light blurb on significant things to take from the match. These matches could be low, mid, high level. Anything I feel offers a good amount to watch and analyze.


The kind of posts i'd like to see in this thread are YOUR analysis. High level, Low level, it doesn't matter. Please, tell us what you think! The process of refining that analysis is important to both see and take part in, so please participate. The purpose of this thread is to help along our understandings of what we see in videos by pairing examples with analysis.


For the match I'm starting with, ill do a more in depth posting to maybe serve as example of what I look for in matches. I hope i can do more, but as time allows. 


(The breakdown I am giving is very in depth, and there are probably a few things not everyone gets the logic behind. If you have a question, please ask! The options I mention are already relatively developed, so I'd like newer players to skip to the end for a simplified, concise match analysis.)




Ryuusei (Jin) vs Chin (Izayoi): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APU5WhLzoRU


In depth breakdown of the first match:



Chin chooses to back off from the start of the match. From match start position, jin 5C carries the same startup as 5B, and is faster than 2C and 236C, and because of Izayoi's high jump and jC angle, jumping upforward to attempt to move into a strong position or net a punish on a whiff 5C will be met with another guessy situation. While there are guesses she can make to deal with certain moves, they all carry some kind of big risk. Chin plays it safe and opts to go to neutral, and plays at a midrange where throwing sonic sabre lets him exploit Ryuusei's movements for positional advantage.


He gets tagged by a stray jC, but eventually takes the risk and runs in after a spaced empty jump. Ryuusei is spaced too far for a useful fuzzy mash, and could easily be whiff punished, so Chin takes the guess and begins to pressure. Slowly, he works ryuusei into the corner, and works around ranges that ryuusei might want to move to. Eventually, Ryuusei airdashes out of the corner and Chin misses and opportunity to take advantage of his anticipated landing. Chin goes to a rising jA at a rather risky spacing, where jin can relatively safely jump back and jC CH, but lucks out. Ryuusei throws a rather bad fireball (likely a misinput on rising jA), and gets hit, netting Chin 2 more stars.


Another misinput on Chin's part, whiffs a 6A. Ryuusei takes the situation to advance, and moves in with a solid airdash jC, with little whiff recovery (low commitment advance considering the spacings), and is able to react to the situation and AA 2C in response to Chin's positioning. Chin lands and guards the 2C, but Ryuusei jump cancels and tries to pressure. Chin attempts to outspace Jin's jump normals by running underneath him (putting him in a position to pressure the anticipated landing), but a pre-emptive j2C from ryuusei scores him a clean hit, and he converts into a corner combo.


Chin opts for a relatively safe attempt to escape the corner (fuzzy jump), which Ryuusei pursues with a dash 2C, after which Chin immediately reversals. He takes the knockdown opportunity to mode change and escape from the corner, putting Ryuusei in a risky position. There are a lot of stray hits and attempts to control positioning, to which Ryuusei overextends himself and gets tagged by a far 5B. Chin blows OD and 50 meter on a pretty iffy confirm, which leaves Ryuusei with his burst, a good amount of life, and Chin without insurance on defense in terms of both meter and overdrive, where he would have gotten the same positioning, stars, and oki if he did not use either resource. However, his pressure pans out and Ryuusei bursts, and Chin scores a good hit, and carries his momentum to win the round.

At the start of the next round, Chin gets a few stray hits from Ryuusei's guesses in neutral, and ends up with 6 stars. Notably, a read on a jump after 6C stance cancel is met with rising jA.  Chin goes into GA in neutral and begins to approach.


Ryuusei guards an airdash jC high in the air, and Chin is left with very few cancel options. Thus, Ryuusei decides to disrespect with 2A after instant blocking it. Chin goes for 5A, Izayoi's fastest move, to hopefully catch a low commitment option (jump) that would retain advantage, but it is a risky call thanks to the limited frame advantage. Instead Ryuusei's risky 2A guess is met with reward, and he gets a pressure setup. He goes for a throw or fuzzy mash bait, and covers fuzzy jump (which Chin does) as well.


The dash j2C Ryuusei goes for is in a situation where there is a lot to look for, making it harder to disrespect, as well as a low risk - medium reward option in terms of option cover. As Chin fuzzy jumps out, the j2C catches him and Ryuusei brings him to the ground in blockstun.


One anticipated jump cancel later, Chin Anti-Airs out of pressure. He scores the hit, and manages to convert it with 3 stars (expensive!). He covers the no-tech with a 5C (questionable) and turns it into a little bit of extra damage for an additional star.


Sitting at 2 stars, Chin back teleports and goes for relatively weak oki, despite Jin not having enough meter to disrespect heavily. His pressure is guarded, and Ryuusei jumps out. Chin catches him, but blows his remaining stars on a weak confirm into even weaker tech cover. Ryuusei luckily doesnt tech, and Chin gets away with a mode change into pressure.


He manages to get another star on block, but his guess on Ryuusei's pressure response is risky, and he shoots a very high saber. Ryuusei runs underneath and pursues the landing, and goes for a mixup. He gets an unexpected CH on the 5B, and gatlings into 6A to which he blows the meter to confirm. The following combo is done as if it was off a naked 6A (mistake on ryuusei's part) and Chin guesses on the drop with a low neutral air tech into mash to take advantage of predicted air tech option cover. Ryuusei doesnt commit, but still ends up blocking Chin's pressure. Chin gets a star and backs off to mode change, with 2 stars being enough to kill Ryuusei with his current life total despite having a burst (Chin is sitting on a lot of meter, and is about to get his burst back).


Ryuusei then guesses on Chin's approach with an IAD at a spacing difficult to anti air at (even so, Chin is so lacking in resources that the threat wouldnt be so substantial) and gets Chin to block a jB after Chin dashes in. Ryuusei goes for a lot of low commitment pressure, and Chin fuzzy jumps almost every time. Eventually Chin escapes pressure and gets a few stray hits while covering air tech options well, but doesnt confirm anything. It would be worth it, as he could astral on the next hit, but he saves the stars instead.


Stray pressure is escaped quickly with barrier IB's and good, low risk jumps on Chin's behalf, and the match stays in neutral as the timer hits single digits. Chin has a distinct life advantage, but Ryuusei's burst means he could lose that advantage quickly. Chin opts for movement over Ryuusei to waste time, and Ryuusei desperately OD's on a blocked jB for a confirm that would win him the round, but puts himself in a negative position with a bad air blockstring. Chin takes advantage and mashes him out upon seeing this, and gets him blocking, timing out his overdrive on a stray hit and securing the match.




Match Analysis:


Much of this match is spent in neutral, so we dont see a lot of examples of pressure that we can talk about.


A lot of the neutral game in Normal mode is focused around movement, especially footsie-ing around anticipated landings and using the threat of airdashes/air actions (you'll end up seeing a lot of high jumps with late air actions). The big threats in terms of moves Izayoi can just COMMIT to are jA and Saber. Saber reward is high because of stock gain on block, so naturally your opponents don't want to block it. jA is simply a strong tool. The rest of the strength in neutral comes from moving around Jin's neutral guesses in a way to put him at a disadvantage and minimize risk when Izayoi does decide to commit to a guess.


GA is a little different, where Izayoi is highly mobile and her jC is really hard to disrespect. You don't see Chin guess vs Jin's anti air often, because the vertical range on 2C makes it somewhat risky to RPS against, but the threat of it is there. Not quite a huge risk to guard 2C, but not the safest either. So spacing in the air is very noticeable as well, but you dont quite see examples of the strength of Izayoi's RPS.


Izayoi's general offensive style lets her RPS a little more when she has the threat of GA and resources behind her, which is something you see reflected in Chin's play during the match.


Chin plays relatively low commitment /most of the time/, and a lot of his decisions/options are very straightforward making this a relatively good set to start from with the proper breakdown.


However, his play lacks in terms of resource management, confirms, and strong pressure. Moving back and forth between normal mode and GA within a round is sometimes acceptable, but you dont want to if you dont have to. And because his confirms dont make the most of his stars or momentum, he ends up at a shortage for stars or resources often. There are ways to mitigate this with meter and OD, but the actual character tech development is lacking in his play. His pressure and momentum is very weak, so he ends up in neutral more often than he should. Ironically this lends to it as a reference in neutral.


The good neutral decisions make up for it and let him take the set, so one thing i would advise keeping an eye out for in the set are neutral choices, especially spacings at which choices are made. Please ask questions about his neutral choices at instances that pique your interest and we'll do our best to explain it!



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On a related note!


62% OD Confirm Examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsjAyvKXPn8&feature=youtu.be


62% is probably Izayoi's most significant health total, letting her do full neutral overdrive combos and also convert into stocks with minimal risk (if you play your cards right, you can get your burst back) in rounds that dont start nice for you. Consider meter gain and such as the round develops. You can go into GA with a low star count and put your opponent in a very bad position.


Most of these confirms you can just omit the super if you'd like to generate stars or save resources, but if you have a specific situation that you want to find a confirm for ask away (combo thread!). If you have any questions about how the combos work, im open for it too. anything. really. please.

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Your idea for this video thread rehash is certainly interesting and I'd like to see it flourish. I'm grateful that we have people like you in this community (and the izayoi section) who are willing to put effort into improving the community. Watching the video and reading the analysis made me realise how vast one's knowledge has to be regarding all mechanics and all characters (this latter one is bugging me), not only to play competitive at a high level, but also to simply understand what he is seeing (like in ryousei's 5b combo drop instance or the fuzzy guard/mash baits). Processing this information in a match is a whole different deal. The thing is, I believe there are very few people who are actually able to fruitly comment on this level of play, so you'd have to shoulder a lot of the work. I don't know if this will work, but I certainly hope so.


some trivial things I noticed:


Chin as you said doesn't commit much in this matchup. We can see that for normal mode combos/confirms, he opts to simply throw jin away with noir strike (on air) instead of aiming for a knockdown with j.c and going on top of him. It seems that with jin's defensive options (dp), such a style may not be worth continuous pressure due to normal mode's limitations.


at 6:20 we can see a kind of interesting cover with successive dash->j,a wiffs. Is there anything to elaborate on that?


Also, I believe that your own matches are a also good to start with, since you know exactly what will be going on. Personally I remember a good instance during this Evo's BB side tournament where it was you vs that tager player. Particularly, the very last round where you got a perfect on him. Your oki choices in the corner looked really ham but also on the right place, I'd like to get a commentary out of the round but I don't know if it's possible to find any video of it.

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at 6:20 we can see a kind of interesting cover with successive dash->j,a wiffs. Is there anything to elaborate on that?


Also, I believe that your own matches are a also good to start with, since you know exactly what will be going on. Personally I remember a good instance during this Evo's BB side tournament where it was you vs that tager player. Particularly, the very last round where you got a perfect on him. Your oki choices in the corner looked really ham but also on the right place, I'd like to get a commentary out of the round but I don't know if it's possible to find any video of it.


that kind of movement is not /super/ useful, but one of the main reasons why you'd want to do that (alternatively, move with an IAD) is so that you stay closer to the ground and can adjust your spacing much more easily than simply holding a dash.


Pretty much, if we contrast that with a forward dash held to that spacing, Chin would be in the air, and something like ryuusei IADing or jumping forward would be really hard to deal with (izayoi has to hit the floor from the dash, and that little bit of time difference in neutral matters a lot).


Landing like that gives Chin opportunities to assess the situation and anti air or footsie if necessary. Essentially, despite committing to a button, it isn't really for poking or anything more than it is to land as quickly as possible. Its a "low commitment" forward movement at that spacing and leaves a lot of options open, despite it actually being...pretty risky if something spontaneously covered that space (random ice wave super).


Doing the jA also gives him a good amount of time to buffer anything if necessary without getting a crazy input. When you IAD for close to ground movement, you need to adjust with [9]/[3] or button input to affect when you land, but its much safer because IAD > [4] allows you to guard quickly while moving at that height. However, because you land much faster off an IAD > [3] or button you also need to be quicker on your inputs.




Ahh, my match with Koji Kog lol. I'll try to find the archives, but I do remember my oki choices in the last round because, well, they are the oki choices i run all the time. I was pretty frustrated because I felt like i was playing pretty bad / sloppy in the prior rounds, so I had that kind of motivation, i just wanted to win then and there so i cleaned up. My general oki you can see from these two videos!






The first video shows my reaction to delay tech (66jC) where it should be buffered so that during hitstop, you won't get the dash and will instead confirm a falling jC into 5C, and you'll safejump delay techs (because the jC whiffs, and there is no hitstop to eat your 66 input). As you can see, it covers notech and rolls as well, forcing the tech situation.


The second video shows how i'd react to an immediate tech to deal with reversals (so, if I safe jumped Koji Kog with 50 meter, i'd OS DP into the hitstop to hit him out of 720, as well as punish a backdash), but if he did not have 50 meter, i had no reason to punish backdash with anything less significant than 5C or 2C, so i would buffer that into jC hitstop. Pretty much, i killed him that round off of option cover and reads on his defense once I got my pressure going.

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Thanks SKD!

Seems like the dash thing was a bit different than I imagined, but even if not that grand in itself, but the jA for easiness of buffering/IAD > [4] are quite interesting details.

As for the oki, this is good stuff! I have been using a ghetto non-backjump version of the 66C/jumpC for safejump/pickup but I didn't include the DP option (I have been always hard committing with barrier block for meterless reversals)

This should help things, especially with an RC for backup, time for some training :IZ: 

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Since I liked the idea of this thread, I figure I should jump into the fray a bit here.


This video isn't super recent, but I just wanted to use it to pick your brain, since I have very little experience with Izayoi personally. I just want to see what it looks like from the Izayoi's perspective a little bit:



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Since no one else is doing it I will attempt to comment for the first round as a low-mid level izayoi player with some basic noel knowledge, it'll definitely not be like skd's analysis though

Chin begins aggresively in this one, at round start he dashes in from the air though noel decides to take evasive action and negates it.

Using the airdash in with izayoi can be effective. Most people expect you to either use long range horizontal attacks at round start (5b,236C, 6C for inv) since they will beat many others (including hakumen 4c) or anti-air their jump out attempt with 623B. Chin is taking advantage of that thought to simply dash in and try to j.5c into a standard star combo. 

We don't see a very frequent use of izayoi's projectile (sonic sabre). This is because if timed properly, Noel's, optic barrel will strike her and negate it before the projectile can reach her. This would give her a decent chance to close in with her new dash cancel.

Chin is frequently backdashing and using j.5C from fullscreen. This is simply to bait Noel into coming in and punish her with j.5c's huge active frames and large vertical hitbox.

At this point, the basic neutral pace is more or less stabilized. Chin will go for the footsies' game in mid-long distances (with 5b) and noel tries to spam her 5c to propably catch the hurtbox on yoi's sword tip. There are not many jump in attempts (with j.5c cover) from Noel's part, except from close ranges, mainly because Izayoi can easily beat her on reaction with her anti-air from long range.

chin manages to land a poke and convert it into a combo to get the stars he needs, combined with a sideswap 236B, at that point, he switches to gain art mode to try and end the round. He starts his pressure with dash j5c and continues from there. It seems like the Noel is kind of trained in gain art pressure and decides to respect her 5b -> 236b~a stance cancel. Usually from this position noel can only punish with 3C so it would be a legit decision for izayoi to simply dash in with j5b/j5c and catch to birds with one stone. It seems that chin messed the timing of the dash up though (ending up in a slight forward walk instead of flying). Luckily, Noel decided to respect w/e chin was trying to do with crouching block, however shortly afterwards she realised there is a way out and attempts to jump back. Chin predicts that and punishes it with 632b into a combo that would bring noel in a very difficult setplay situation had she not bursted. 

Noel then tries to 236b but mistimes the input and overhead 6b comes out. Chin, expecting an optic barrel decided to stay on crouching defence so he could not capitalise on that mistake with say, teleport. Later, Chin manages to get a stray high jump tk sonic sabre to hit which will eventually allow him to offensively overwhelm noel with a feint double dash j.c and carry her to the other corner (can anybody comment on this sonic sabre? looks like it could be the effect some strange os input, and is otherwise and extremely hard-risky to use at such close ranges due to being punishable)

After he blows his meter on for the corner carry combo that leaves noel with very little hp, chin goes for a hard roll bait with backwards teleport. This choice is questionable, since had been at the right height to use the classic j.5c safejump oki. Noel doesn't roll and some good predictions get her out of the corner rather quickly. After a yolo projectile teleport, chin decides to play it safe in neutral. Eventually noel comes on top of Izayoi through a poking conversion, but chin predicts a drive entry and counters it with dp to take the round. 

these things take time to write so that's it for now, lol. Perhaps I will edit this with some sort of conclusive comment.


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