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cadacus_ater

[CPEX] Jin vs Relius

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Initial Notes and Match Start

This post is not fully complete, but it should tell you almost everything you need.

Relius is an offensive character with a somewhat gimmicky, but scary mid-range zoning game.  He will make use of his doll, Ignis, to augment his pressure, frame trap the living daylights out of you, and extend his combos for almost twice the damage he can do on his own.  His weakness is that he has few defensive options and that he must manage his Ignis meter carefully or he will lose the ability to use Ignis for a period of time, during which he becomes vulnerable.

At match start, your best bet is probably to jump forward and barrier to see what he does, most of his staple ground normals will trade or barely beat yours, but you can't jump in and expect a free hit, his 2C is extremely good at stuffing your air approach.  It's okay if you let him start a pressure string without Ignis for a little bit, since he doesn't have very stable pressure without her.  You will want to try and get in his face to keep him from summoning Ignis when possible.  Just watch out that you don't let him hit you from his 5B > 236C range and chase him down if he tries to run and summon Ignis.

If he starts by super jumping back and summoning Ignis, you should try to approach, but stay on your toes.  Summoned Ignis makes his pressure far less easy to predict and gives him more options.

 

 

Neutral


Full Screen

At full screen, neither of you are in an ideal position, but he has more options than you, such as 22C to keep you on your toes and 214B, which summons or moves Ignis behind you for an attack that may take place off-screen if you are too close to the edge of the screen.  Don't rely on projectiles to get in, he can stuff them with Ignis and simultaneously move her closer to you for another attack and further zoning options.  You will want to try and get in to long-mid range and then point blank, but he will also like long-mid range and may try to hit you on your way in with Ignis to get some momentum or make your approach more difficult.

 

Long-Mid Range

At long-mid range, both of you have some useful tools, but his are more numerous and can overwhelm yours, especially with Ignis summoned.  Watch out for 5B pokes, be aware of his 6D and 2D with Ignis, and look for 2C and 4D when trying to jump in.  If you get hit by a max range 5B, he can't do very much off of it, without Ignis summoned, but he can get about 2k if he feels like wasting a ton of Ignis meter, which a good Relius wouldn't do.  But get a bit closer than that and he can combo you for about 3.7k without any heat on a raw 5B hit with or without Ignis summoned. 

At his max 5B range, you probably have a slight advantage since you can CH 5C him and then follow up with 2D and a jump cancel for a combo or even a near max range 2D > jump > j.B can lead to a combo, but you can't throw out 5C or 2D carelessly or it could get you in trouble. 

Both of you can beat the other jumping in carelessly, but Relius can use Ignis to set up some tricky pressure strings and safe overheads.  He can also set up unblockables with Ignis using her 214D and 236D that can be beaten with a well placed DP or 2C or simply avoided by jumping, but you should be aware of them.

 

Point Blank

Point blank is generally in Jin's favor, but Relius does have a few options that could mess you up if you aren't careful.  He will generally save his meter for one of two things: Rapid Cancels for combos without Ignis or an escape with a counter assault or his only real reversal, his Req Vinum DD.  You shouldn't need to worry about the last two much, but be aware that he can stop your pressure and knock you back to mid-long range again.  Alternatively, he can Led Ley to make an attack whiff and then punish you, but this is generally difficult to do unless you are too predictable, and gets him in trouble if it fails. 

Regarding the corner, drive him there whenever possible, but don't let him put you there if you can help it.  Relius' pressure is considerably more dangerous in the corner, and his meterless damage still exceeds your own.  Don't try to DP out carelessly though; some of his best pressure strings with Ignis make it easy for him to bait reversals in the corner if he calls it out.

 

 

Offense and Defense

Your Offense vs His Defense

His 5B can trade with your 5C at a considerable distance for both of you getting hit, or it will beat you if he's close enough, depending on how fast he is.  His 3C is as fast as your 2B, but 2B will win if spaced properly.  However, be wary of his own 2B.  It is weak and slow to start, but it is a fairly long range low.  Don't run in with 2B carelessly, as his 5B beats it.  He has lost 3C jump cancel, but can jump cancel 2C, making his high/low mix up a bit weaker, but watch out for his jump in if Ignis is in play.  Air to air is generally in your favor, but depends on spacing.  The farther away from him you are in air to air, the better, unless he has Ignis summoned, which makes it more even.

When you get on the offensive, there isn't much he can do other than run, wait for you to give him an opening via IB, or burn 50 meter to escape.

 

His Offense vs Your Defense

If he gets on the offensive, you are best off waiting out his Ignis pressure if you can manage it and then chasing him down after he returns her.  If he is trying to pressure you without Ignis, you can pretty much sit there and down back to block his strings, trying to IB when possible for an opening.  Just watch for a gutsy 6A overhead (fairly obvious) or a 2C jump cancel.  You can try to DP him out on the ground if you wish, but it is a risk vs reward call.  Failing will get you comboed, potetially for over 3.5k.

 

 

 

Gimmicks and Miscellaneous Info

Gimmicks

Remember that you can hit Ignis while she is performing an attack to reduce her gauge and even de-summon or break her (except for 2D and Duo Bios).  I wouldn't try focusing on it too much, but it's good to keep in mind.

As with fighting Carl and Nirvana, you must block based on the position of Relius, not Ignis.  He generally has a harder time than Carl tricking you this way however.

His j.B has the potential for crossups, but can be difficult for him to confirm off of.  Still, you should be mindful of them.  Remember also he has a rather tall hitbox; take advantage of it.

Some combos Relius has will not work as easily on Jin, or have to be modified (weakened) to complete.  Jin may also run into problems due to Relius' aerial hitbox with certain corner combos that use (stuff) > 623C (max height) > 5C > 2C > 6C > 214B(whiff)~C that cause the C followup to whiff if 5C catches him too high.  These can be fixed with proper delays and spacing though.

Ignis attacks all have projectile properties.  Note that a few of them cannot be interrupted with an attack, such as 2D, which has guard point, and Duo Bios (punching puppet DD similar to Carl's DD with Nirvana) which has super armor, but is easily escaped and countered with Jin's Yukikaze DD, though Relius can escape the counterattack if he is looking for it and may be able to attack you afterward.

Misc. Info

Not much to say here that wasn't already in Gimmicks.  Watch out for his 5B poke.  Yes, this bears repeating.

Oh, and if I didn't mention already, his OD lets him use Ignis infinitely for its duration.  So...yeah, there is that.  It makes his Ignis 214A go really far, really fast too.

 

 

 

Frame Advantage, Disadvantage, and Punishes

Frame Advantage

I hesitate to put much down here, as Ignis can change his pressure game drastically, giving him access to both airtight pressure and solid frame traps on the fly if the opponent knows how to use him.  Just...don't try to counter attack him with Ignis summoned unless you are prepared for things to go wrong.  Without Ignis though, just wait out his pressure.  His strings are not very long and his only normals with a jump cancel on block are 5A and 2C.

Frame Disadvantage

Again, Ignis really changes the dynamics of everything.  Just know that without Ignis, his 6C and 236C are some moves you may end up punishing.  I might try looking more at this later.

Punishes

Let us assume Ignis is tucked away in space off the field.

After 5C > 2C with pressure, he can either jump, use 3C, or use 6C.  6C (-17) is stupid for him.  I would IB and thrash him if he tries it even though he has the option of 236C afterward.  If he has 50 heat though, that is a bit more risky, as he could RC the 236C even if you call it out.  Jump is sometimes possible to try and attack, but can be risky and he can always block your attempt to punish it.  3C can be punished (-10 on normal block), mostly if you IB it, but the window is very brief and normally you will be out of range to do so.  Also, he could still try 236C after 3C, but blocking it would put momentum in your favor at least, at best give you a free punish.

 

 

 

Summary

I would put this matchup at about 4.5/5.5 in Relius' favor, but it feels fairly even.  Just make use of good blocking and barrier blocking as you approach and don't let up on him when you get in.  Always be wary whenever Ignis is summoned.

 

 

 

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