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"Understand the Past, Gain the Future": Dustloop Revamp General

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Honestly, just nuke the current forum and make "new" Dustloop.

 

This place has a bad reputation. Nobody wants to post here, every thread is the same few people basically trying to run things themselves. The staff team is super bloated and needs to be completely redone. There are a lot of problems with how the forums have been laid out over the years.

 

Like, it'd be easier/more effective to just archive the whole forum and redesign and relaunch the site than it would be to fix it. The only thing really worth keeping up is the wiki.

 

I don't believe the current set up works anyways so you'd have to change that anyways

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Speaking from past experiences in another community, nuking a forum and starting a new one doesn't automatically clear away the bad reputation.

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Yea, it's kind of impossible to completely shake a bad reputation, even if we did try to remake our image.

To justify a forum nuke, it would at least two justifications:

A) what about the current forum and how things are run that are so flawed to justify it?

B) what changes can be made on a new forum that cannot be attained now.

It's not a bad idea, but I've seen too many people suggest a complete reformatting when met with things they no longer consider adequate and too many times it's a rash and at times, pointless decision.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Tournament related stuff would be awesome, especially ones that happen in Japan. Keeping up on who's the top players and how we could watch the tournaments (streams) would help a lot. The wiki is also a big deal, but, as previously stated, it's a group effort.

 

And what's this bad reputation of which you guys speak?

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Agreed the mod army needs cutting, I've felt that way for so long now seeing many that seem to have died. Why have a job when you are not working? Thankfully it isn't a paid job, or dustloop would be barren AND in massive, unnecessary debt.

Also believe mods need to be like the nicest people on the entire site. This is of course subjective, but it goes without saying that at least the NEWER players, the players the site wants (because most vets will probably take anything the site gives that isn't effectively harming their ability to type), are going to need someone who is going to hold their hand, talk to them soothingly like babies, and guide them every step of the way. This sounds extremely patronizing but I've come to realize with my experience in management, that people eat this up. They find others with this quality extremely knowledgeable even if they aren't (though they should be, if they are mods), trustworthy, and focused solely on them. Who doesn't like undivided, positive attention? And from a stranger? They'll fall in love with the site and might even tell their friends, which is even BETTER. At the very least, any more going forward should have some qualities attributing to this. This is you guys's "business", last thing you want is even one "customer" walking out the door right now.

As far as knowledge goes, I might need a slap to the face, but I think we are ok here! I mean, obviously there can be improvement. However this site has some extremely dedicated members who post info dump after info dump and I know sometimes I'm wondering if they have anything else going on but ultimately, going into places like my character's threads, the story and news threads etc. and seeing people actually working on this really brings me joy. Let's face it, helping others has almost no benefit. People are doing 99% of this shit for free, and you really can't 'force' people to work, even if they are a mod, though again, that is to be expected of the position. Point being we could be doing a lot worse, and the most that can be done is to encourage and reinforce behavior like this. More positivity to go around means more people might get wind and want to start posting stuff themselves. This may lead to a little more information errors, but so long as the gesture was sincere and not made to troll, someone (a mod for example) can kindly remind the offender of their mishap and do progressive discipline should they not comprehend, but most sensible members should get the point after being reminded nicely to be mindful of what they post.

Forum rules need to be more visible and definitely need to be reworded. The rules themselves invoke intolerance and hostility and they are supposed to be the core of the forum. I don't think things like "dumb shit" and "insufferable", for instance, should be in the rule book anymore. People get the hint no matter how it's said, but will react differently depending on how it is said.

I have more ideas but I am currently at work right now so I will have to stop.

If you read nothing else, at least consider the fact that, going forward, people in power need to be more positive, and they definitely need to be ACTIVE members of the society. People who are capable of at least governing the site with patience and with a certain level of maturity. There needs to be rigorous testing to see who should be in charge. Right now some moderators are really putting in effort to make this site succeed, and should be in charge of the operation. You know who you are, if you've been doing this. Go forth and make this place more lively.

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Forum layout is way too diluted. For the sake of organization it's supremely well organized, but with so many boards and discussion spread like that it can be real dead real fast. It meets the needs of information archival, and if that's all we want then fine, well enough, but it makes the board look dead and chunks up discussion. A large majority of discussion takes place in the general boards anyways, that's where people actually talk instead of just post info. And why do we need these boards to archive information when we have a wiki? That doesn't make much sense to me to have these crazy organized character boards when anything relevant out of them we can direct to the easier to read and navigate wikis.

 

It also makes it so we need so many staff to do anything with the forum format. With so many different boards and so much clerical work needed, that means you need a lot of people. Dustloop has like what, 100+ staff members? That's ludicrous, and 90% of them do the basic clerical work and then become useless and disappear. The most active mods are the super mods and the mods that have some control over a general subforum.

 

For our community's needs the forum layout is insanely overkill and redundant. With social media tools the way they are and all the other options we have, I don't think we need it. We can sum up a large amount of the subforum work on a single google document, that can be edited into a wiki, and the subforum would be dead. Why not have just larger boards that are far less dead and less intimidating for new people to dip into, and let the character work happen through smaller threads using better tools than the forum layout.

 

Circ is playing around with the idea of a reddit style board. It's a worthwhile experiment to see how the flow of things would work in an easier space, and it can be (I think Circ hasn't fixed it yet) integrated into social media super easily. Problem is nobody atm is using it. Again, it's an experiment just to see how alternate solutions to the traditional forum layout would work so go at least play with it. Note, this board isn't for info dumping. Info should be put there, but whatever info is dumped there needs to be reviewed by players and then formatted over into the wiki. https://dustloop.herokuapp.com/(note it is unfinished and some thigns don't work but at least play with it and break it, then it gets fixed and we play with it some more).

 

Edit: mods are mean btw because unless you're blunt and enforce things everything falls to shit. You need nice mods and mods that are willing to be rude to make sure things stay okay. I may be a mean butt, but after not being here and coming back some threads are /hilarious/.

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Oh, I definitely agree the forum layout is overkill. We could definitely do with some compacting. I think the UNI forums look better than the GG, BB and P4U forums simply because they are smaller in scope.

 

I'm not a fan of the Reddit-style, though.

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Oh, I definitely agree the forum layout is overkill. We could definitely do with some compacting. I think the UNI forums look better than the GG, BB and P4U forums simply because they are smaller in scope.

 

I'm not a fan of the Reddit-style, though.

 

Yeah, the style or reformatting is something that would be open to debate.

 

The good thing about a reddit or BBS style is the posters and users will actually have more tools to curate themselves without relying on mods. For example if somebody makes a horrid post, it can just be downvoted and ignored rather than call a mod or have people try to correct it. We should be thinking of how to make moderation less of a necessity and opening the board up to have discussion keep moving through it.

 

Edit: and on the subject of tools, again, we have redundancy. We have these amazing and easy to use match databases, but we still update video threads. Why???

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Yeah, the style or reformatting is something that would be open to debate.

 

The good thing about a reddit or BBS style is the posters and users will actually have more tools to curate themselves without relying on mods. For example if somebody makes a horrid post, it can just be downvoted and ignored rather than call a mod or have people try to correct it. We should be thinking of how to make moderation less of a necessity and opening the board up to have discussion keep moving through it.

 

Edit: and on the subject of tools, again, we have redundancy. We have these amazing and easy to use match databases, but we still update video threads. Why???

 

Except now you're relying on the collective hive-mind to not downvote or upvote all the wrong things. This is a bad idea.

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One thing about reddit is that certain patterns of user behavior emerge, incentivized by the upvote system. People end up whoring for upvotes and posting whatever quick fix "epic meme" content they can to get them. They also downvote anything they disagree with, instead of it's original use being meant for downvoting spam and things like that.

 

But the way some reddit communities address that is just by disabling downvotes. And for people posting spam or whatever for quick upvotes, you just have moderators deal with that.

 

I'd assume that the reddit part could work for a general discussion section, then for valuable info you could put it on the wiki.

 

Also I don't think mods NEED to be mean, it creates an "us VS them" mentality like we're wards in a prison jail and have to watch out for the inmates mutinying if we show the slightest sign of weakness. I've actually been told by many people, even other mods, many times that they found the atmosphere uninviting and it made them not want to post. This isn't just mods VS users though, I've seen tons of arguments here on DL between users and it always ends with people getting mobbed with "you suck at this game so shut up," because it was more about scoring points than sharing information. And then you wonder why so many average players who we want to post critiques of videos or help out with matchup info and such feel like they shouldn't.

 

I mean, in the end, for a site like this you need emotional attachment. People are putting in work for strangers on their own free time, when they could actually be playing the game or doing stuff offline. So why should they bother? Especially when they can get immediate access to their friends in FB groups and Twitter and other social media? Some people might get a sense of satisfaction from maintaining a dry knowledge base on a wiki, but to everyone else that's just busy work. You need it to be for actual people they care about for it to be worth doing. That's where the sense of community and a more general discussion oriented place comes in. Even if the actual general discussion posts aren't 100% on topic, or are shitposts sometimes, it creates a bond with people that makes them want to keep coming back to the site and put effort into building it.

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The dustloop wiki is open to public editing, remember that this is a community effort.

 

Just because we don't have frame data doesn't mean that we should sit on our asses and wait for it to be delivered on a silver platter. Right now I'm testing attacks to see if they're negative, positive, punishable on IB or just punishable in general with my respective characters (Jin and Plat). I'll update the wiki pages with that data once I'm done. While they might not be exact numbers, it will at least give people an idea as to when they should and should not push buttons. 

 

Edit: Oh and just in case you're wondering how I'm testing this. Right now I'm just focusing on moves that can't be canceled into anything, we'll take Azrael's 236A for example. What I will do is record the move and immediately go into Ezreals' 5A (his fastest normal as far as I know) after blockstun and use Plat's 5A (her fastest normal) to see what happens. Right now it seems that 236A is positive seeing how Azreal's jab will beat Plat's jab after blockstun. Then I'll test it after IB'ing and so on. It's tedious, it's an experiment full of inaccuracies, but shit somebody has to do it, I'm doing it for myself right now. 

 

Oh shoot that's community editable? I should update the Rel forum with the stuff I find. I can't do much in the way of pictures of moves but I'd like to add stuff in.

 

For instance although Rel's 3C is not jump cancel-able it's now only -4 on block. I know how to test start-up and recovery (when a move is -2 or more) how to find P1 and P2, the cancel options but the rest, (IE when moves get their various invincibility or guard-point traits or lose them, actives on moves, exact hitstun data and blockstun data for projectiles and things that are higher than -2 frame advantage and distortion stuff in general with superflash and all that) I've got no clear idea on, but I'll prolly think of something...

 

Anyone with clear knowledge of how to test all this should tell me. I'll try to be as accurate as I can but I do make mistakes and someone should double check my stuff if possible.

 

EDIT:Other things I'd like to calculate is exact heat gain values down to the hundredths decimal, exact frame values on heat cool-down, how heat proration works in general since it's been in BBCP this whole time and we've never discussed it, and how to calculate eachhits frame data in some multi-hit moves like 5C, 214C, 236D, j.214B, ~j.214B, and duo bios.

 

SECOND EDIT: Ooh also the finite details on how the combo timer system even works. Like at what fram in an N combo do we lose "X" amount of hitstun and such. An exact idea of how SMP affects a combo would be cool too. IE "30% proration loss or 200 frames reduced from combo before next hitstun decrease on this moves SMP."

 

THIRD EDIT REVENGE OF THE SITH: oh and also what the CH window on a move is. There've been times I've been sure Bang or Hakumen have been in the middle of their j.2Cs and not been CH'd

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Since no Jp article came out with frame data... Some of these things are going to require extensive testing. Like, dropping fragile liquids through a beaker very slowly extensive. Is it worth with cf coming out next year? This game is already a bit old, not to say info shouldn't be added but the amount of effort is going to end of being redonkulous. But yeah I think freeze framing would probably be best. Most moves in the game can clearly be identified as having invul since they don't change too much in between games except by a few frames here and there. Is there another way? Hopefully.

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I was going to go into training mode and set blockstrings with gaps I knew the exact frame count of and then test mashing out with normals to see what would fit, and deduce startup that way.

 

But I guess even those blockstrings' frame data could be different too. RIP

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The forum layout complaint....does kinda make sense; it can be daunting and navigating a wiki is a lot easier, but at the same time we don't want users to just read a wiki and then not even bother with the forums. If we do add info on the wiki, it should at least give some incentive to visit the forums for general questions and probing of players.

 

 

A reddit styled board could work, I don't really understand its layout that well tho. Can someone describe it?

 

 

Since no Jp article came out with frame data... Some of these things are going to require extensive testing. Like, dropping fragile liquids through a beaker very slowly extensive. Is it worth with cf coming out next year? This game is already a bit old, not to say info shouldn't be added but the amount of effort is going to end of being redonkulous. But yeah I think freeze framing would probably be best. Most moves in the game can clearly be identified as having invul since they don't change too much in between games except by a few frames here and there. Is there another way? Hopefully.

 

Can't we just...ya know...pester Arcsys about it on their Twitter? They seem pretty involved on there and I'm sure they could give us something. Or hell, get some Japanese players to work for us and do it. Someone made a note of that Hakumen meter glitch from a few months back and they quickly patched it, I'm sure we could try that with getting some Frame Data too. 

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The forum layout complaint....does kinda make sense; it can be daunting and navigating a wiki is a lot easier, but at the same time we don't want users to just read a wiki and then not even bother with the forums. If we do add info on the wiki, it should at least give some incentive to visit the forums for general questions and probing of players.

 

 

A reddit styled board could work, I don't really understand its layout that well tho. Can someone describe it?

 

 

 

Can't we just...ya know...pester Arcsys about it on their Twitter? They seem pretty involved on there and I'm sure they could give us something. Or hell, get some Japanese players to work for us and do it. Someone made a note of that Hakumen meter glitch from a few months back and they quickly patched it, I'm sure we could try that with getting some Frame Data too. 

 

It's Reddit without being attached to Reddit's name basically.

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Since no Jp article came out with frame data... Some of these things are going to require extensive testing. Like, dropping fragile liquids through a beaker very slowly extensive. Is it worth with cf coming out next year? This game is already a bit old, not to say info shouldn't be added but the amount of effort is going to end of being redonkulous. But yeah I think freeze framing would probably be best. Most moves in the game can clearly be identified as having invul since they don't change too much in between games except by a few frames here and there. Is there another way? Hopefully.

 

I was going to go into training mode and set blockstrings with gaps I knew the exact frame count of and then test mashing out with normals to see what would fit, and deduce startup that way.

 

But I guess even those blockstrings' frame data could be different too. RIP

 

People with capture cards could record each move and test for frame data the old fashioned way (probably possible with a shaky cam, too, just with more effort).

 

I'll probably go ahead and do Rachel's on Sunday while the forums are down, though I don't believe her moves have changed much. Active frames are pretty impossible to get, though, and invuln start/end is difficult to pinpoint as well.

 

It's Reddit without being attached to Reddit's name basically.

 

Exactly this. If you want to see how it would look, just visit a board on Reddit and enjoy.

 

This is, by the way, something I very much disagree with implementing on this site.

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The main thing about getting frame data manually is that it's very time consuming and difficult to get accurately. Though, to be honest, the mook also had inaccuracies. I'm working for other possibilities for a wiki page layout and so is someone else, but now that I actually own the game I can at least fix up the gatling chart and re-do all the move descriptions (for Rachel lol. I'll leave the other stuff to other people), etc. I do also have most of the damage info already recorded, but tbh I was really hoping there'd be a mook so that everything could go up at once. I'll probably have to make a google spreadsheet to calculate p1 and p2 changes. But I guess if I can make one that'd be usable for all characters (assuming people want to take the time to plug in numbers).

 

With all the complaints about the video thread, I honestly think that the megathreads should be nuked since there is already a JP database. Perhaps instead those threads can be use for video analysis discussion instead as SKD suggested in his twitlonger.

 

And I'm also "no" for reddit-style. It's good for on the fly discussion, so I wouldn't have any issue for it being used for something like a general or netplay discussion or whatever, but it's absolutely terrible for trying to get any kind of even remotely useful information from. Every gaming reddit I know uses outside sources for this reason. It's actually the same issue with Twitter which is why more stable sources like a forum where things can be more easily tracked/archived are preferable. We could just stuff everything into the wiki, but you can't give feedback to a wiki or ask a wiki questions. And being able to at least have people's questions easily available makes a good resource for people who are more hesitant to post themselves.

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The forum layout complaint....does kinda make sense; it can be daunting and navigating a wiki is a lot easier, but at the same time we don't want users to just read a wiki and then not even bother with the forums. If we do add info on the wiki, it should at least give some incentive to visit the forums for general questions and probing of players.

 

 

A reddit styled board could work, I don't really understand its layout that well tho. Can someone describe it?

 

 

 

Can't we just...ya know...pester Arcsys about it on their Twitter? They seem pretty involved on there and I'm sure they could give us something. Or hell, get some Japanese players to work for us and do it. Someone made a note of that Hakumen meter glitch from a few months back and they quickly patched it, I'm sure we could try that with getting some Frame Data too. 

I remember Mike Z saying that he talked to Japanese Fighting Game Developers about releasing frame data and hitbox info and etc and they said they wouldn't do it. By all means feel free to try and see if you can get anywhere but I'm doubtful it would happen.

 

And I love that we are in disagreement abut the Reddit style. Reddit is a place to see upvoted funny stuff. The thing that's upvoted the most will get seen the most but the actual discussion will get lost and overshadowed by the top rated comments.

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I remember Mike Z saying that he talked to Japanese Fighting Game Developers about releasing frame data and hitbox info and etc and they said they wouldn't do it. By all means feel free to try and see if you can get anywhere but I'm doubtful it would happen.

 

And I love that we are in disagreement abut the Reddit style. Reddit is a place to see upvoted funny stuff. The thing that's upvoted the most will get seen the most but the actual discussion will get lost and overshadowed by the top rated comments.

 

you know they officially released frame data and stuff for XRD

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I want to request an RSS feed for the main page (news). Right know I get plenty of feeds on the main page but most of them are not updated or don't show the correct info.

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A nifty trick to find P1's and P2's on moves that you believe have changed those values:

 

Using the formula {([P1 + P2] / 2) * 100 = CT Damage} you can find out any of these values.

 

Any one hit comboed into 5A+B will make the 5A+B do the first hit's P1 + P2 / 2 times 100. For instance Rel's 5B>5A+B makes the 5A+B do 890 damage and because Rel's 5B has 100% P1 the P2 must be 89%. With a little math, anything with with a known P1 can have its P2 found this way, and vice versa is true. I can find 2C's P2 with a little math and do 5B>2C>5A+B All I need to do is find X in

 

{([89 + "X"] / 2) * 100 = CT damage}

 

or more simply put:

 

{([CT damage/100]*2) - 89 = 2C's P2}

 

and I have it simple as that. Note that this calculation only works because 5B has 100% P1, if you're trying to find the second move's P2 with a move that doesn't have 100%P1 as a starter you have to do:

 

{([CT damage/100]*3) - the first move's P1 added to it's P2 = the second move's P2}

 

If I want 2C's P1 I can do the first type of calculation again. In 2C>CT the CT will do "2C's unknown P1 + 2C's now known P2 / 2" multiplied by 100

 

Fun and easy P:

 

This is here to help anyone editing the wiki.

 

Oh and to set this up, put the opponent to non-tech and display damage in training mode. Make them jumping if need be.

 

EDIT:My math AND English were bad. I'm really sorry. I shouldn't post this late. I fixed it. Remember boys and girls at home, review and edit your papers before you turn them in. Don't be a Myoro.

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Also I don't think mods NEED to be mean, it creates an "us VS them" mentality like we're wards in a prison jail and have to watch out for the inmates mutinying if we show the slightest sign of weakness. I've actually been told by many people, even other mods, many times that they found the atmosphere uninviting and it made them not want to post. This isn't just mods VS users though, I've seen tons of arguments here on DL between users and it always ends with people getting mobbed with "you suck at this game so shut up," because it was more about scoring points than sharing information. And then you wonder why so many average players who we want to post critiques of videos or help out with matchup info and such feel like they shouldn't.

 

I mean, in the end, for a site like this you need emotional attachment. People are putting in work for strangers on their own free time, when they could actually be playing the game or doing stuff offline. So why should they bother? Especially when they can get immediate access to their friends in FB groups and Twitter and other social media? Some people might get a sense of satisfaction from maintaining a dry knowledge base on a wiki, but to everyone else that's just busy work. You need it to be for actual people they care about for it to be worth doing. That's where the sense of community and a more general discussion oriented place comes in. Even if the actual general discussion posts aren't 100% on topic, or are shitposts sometimes, it creates a bond with people that makes them want to keep coming back to the site and put effort into building it.

 

This is basically my stance on it as well. I used to frequently post on the site, in every board I could. Nowadays, I only post in the Noel board, I make a new combo thread every time a new game comes out, and I reply to questions about the character on the rare occurrence that I get one. It's mainly because I feel like I'm not wanted here, and it's usually by the staff. Granted, it's been awhile since I've had a bad experience, but that was the whole point of sticking to my own board, avoiding the bullshit.

 

It got to the point where coming to Dustloop wasn't fun anymore, but I still do at least the minimum expected of me, since I genuinely want to help new users, that was my goal when I first got the position, and I succeeded almost instantly in building a decent community within the Noel boards, yet I was told that what I was doing was awful. A moderator at the time even told me that everything I did for the site was making it worse. So now, I find it hard to care, but I'm still here because even if the Noel boards only get one post per month, I want to be there, to make sure it's addressed.

 

Thing is though, you can't really address this problem easily. You can't just unmod a bunch of guys because they aren't nice, since they ARE good at what they do. Some of the staff that I dislike are actually extremely useful to the site.

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Hi yes hello, I'm one of those inactive mods that people are talking about but I do want to voice my opinion since this is partly the reason I started to feel tired with Dustloop back when I was more active, saw a decline in activity and before becoming largely inactive and falling into idol hell.

This is gonna be a long one but before I begin I want to be clear: This is not a bid to bring back General off-topic threads, just my opinion and feelings since we seem to be more accepting on criticism and I actually feel comfortable letting this out now.

First, I need to give context about where I'm coming from because I feel this is important. General discussion/off-topic threads were a widely debated topic then and even now but I understand why we wanted to cut down on this. Tsubaki and Noel sub forums had very well known off-topic General threads that I felt allowed the community, especially new people to come in and feel comfortable asking questions and sort of bond with each other. Long story short, people were allowed to post whatever they wanted and for those threads they were restricted to the character forums, but Dustloop wanted to become more gameplay oriented. Okay, that's fine I can understand that.

My issue is with how it was handled, implemented and the lack of explanation to our own members, even some of the mods, and not allowing their feedback to be heard because it didn't line up with the "vision" some people had for Dustloop, which we seem to be working on right now.

Honestly, HOW it happened is what I feel started to garner some of the "unfriendly" atmosphere that seems to permeate DL now. It was basically shut down with little warning (I knew it was coming but I had to essentially shut it down the same day it was decided, the members of the board had no clue) and we threw them, members of the community, into what we had called "groups" that was a pain to navigate to and basically hidden from the site. Needless to say, they were confused as to why this happened especially when net play general was still allowed to exist (at the time) but we were shut down and hadn't done anything really harmful to the site. I explained it was because we wanted the boards to be more gameplay oriented. Many asked if there was a way to "petition it" but the staff at the time was very adamant about removing general threads and I know that's not going to change soon. Again, I understand why. (The irony to this is later on, I see it's okay to be "off-topic" in the gameplay threads as long as it's about the character which was what I thought we were trying to get rid of? But I digress.)

Not too long after this incident most people who frequented the Tsubaki board and contributed left. Essentially, I feel we had splintered the community by removing casual talk so people can you know, actually get to know each other and, here's the big one not listening, including or even considering them in what we wanted Dustloop to be.

Honestly, this probably wasn't solely the reason why people left but I noticed that when we tried to be strictly gameplay oriented no one wanted to contribute and activity dropped because let's face it, not many people feel comfortable contributing when they're not considered a "top player" or "well-known" lest they be mocked and ridiculed. More than anything though, they may have felt that they didn't have the chance to let their opinion be heard which was not the intention but it made us far more unwelcoming than it should have. I feel it became a catalyst to how Dustloop became what it is today and why so many people are now far more active on Twitter and other social media sites. Like it or not those "casuals" are part of our community too!

I know people will disagree and I'll probably be hated on more than before but I don't care. Maybe I'm not qualified to say anything now because I've been largely inactive but I wanted to throw this out there because it frustrated me to no end and seems pervasive with Dustloop's bad rep. Yes, I'm far less active than I was before to the point where even I've wondered why I'm still listed as one but when I was, I put in the time and work because I cared and I still care, far more than I would like to admit. Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to even make this post. I have other things to say but that can be for another time, I've ranted long enough.

For the record, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting Dustloop to be more gameplay oriented. Again, the issue I have is with how it was handled.

TL;DR We're not as welcoming or as friendly as we like to think we are. Asking a community to help and be more active won't be as effective when they feel like they won't be heard, shunned away or punished simply for talking.

Forum rules need to be more visible and definitely need to be reworded. The rules themselves invoke intolerance and hostility and they are supposed to be the core of the forum. I don't think things like "dumb shit" and "insufferable", for instance, should be in the rule book anymore. People get the hint no matter how it's said, but will react differently depending on how it is said.

This this this specifically rules 11 and 12. I agree with what TD has said as well for being positive in general.

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mods have needed, for years, to stop being oppressing towards new players and posters who may not know better, stop threatening people with infractions for maybe making a mistake without offering a secondary solution or forum.

this forum is run with hostility, the mods are cruel/don't exist/don't care. stop the damn elitism, stop the damn drama, stop mods from attacking the members, stop the power tripping

get mods that have some sort of stable understanding of what being social looks like

 

get mods who don't see this forum "shittier than gamefaqs" or "hell", who don't see the members as enemies or burdens

i heavily opt against a reddit style forum because we don't need one person posting some 6 paragraph post and everyone upvoting it, giving the illusion that One Opinion is right and if you post a differing outlook on the topic you could be mobbed on or given an infraction, we really don't need a cruddy hivemind that just stifles outside thought

 

Why should we be telling a month one player that they're outright wrong about some part of the gameplay, instead of discussing why they may have felt that way and offering an optimized way to handle that gameplay?? is it too carebear??

TLDR: could you think the reason why we have to find high level player notes in obscure twitter posts and buried evernotes be due to the forum being associated with vitriol and negativity?? we have to be positive

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