Xrd Faust Match Analysis Thread

[www.keeponrock.in]

Using http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forums/topic/11074-cpex-izayoi-video-posting-analysis-discussion-thread/ as the model, here's the new match analysis thread! I'll go first...

[www.keeponrock.in]

Nage's last win at Evo, Faust versus Millia, was a match up most of us hate. Faust wants to prolong neutral and Millia wants to end it. This is the first match I'd like to analyze and I hope you'll assist me in my analysis.

Play by Play:

[0:02:50] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

First round. Nage opens with jump back JH and covers his landing with J2K.

This beats anything Millia does that involves start of round jumping including: rising JP, IAD, jump back pin, etc.

It's safe against start of round ground normals, since they whiff and Faust is already doing drill kick by the time Millia recovers.

It loses to Millia waiting and reacting with a 6P or Millia running and then doing a jump or Millia's running 2H. It beats running 6P if done properly though.

To beat Millia's running 6P with this, use JH early enough so that J2K can be done early enough to keep Faust in the air for 6P to whiff before Faust is low enough to be hit.

All of the starters that beat this starter look to be atypical and are tells that either the opponent has a read on you, or likes to take certain risks.

[0:02:52] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

Woshige trades JD with Nage's J2K. Nage wakes up with Item Toss.

After the trade, Nage's got a fair bit of distance, so he throws an item to aid in neutral. He gets meteors. Lucky!

[0:02:53] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

Nage gets Meteors, does a backdash, gets hit and mashes J2K.

Backdash J2K seems like a routine Nage does to cover the space in front of him in case Millia runs at him. It has good priority and recovery so it seems like a safe option.

[0:02:54] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

But Woshige manages to low profile J2K with a running 2K!

Woshige continues his string 2K-2K-c.S-2D and tries to roll through meteors but doesn't get the timing right and gets hit.

Since meteors are on the way, it was likely that Woshige was going for a tick-throw with 2K, so it looks like the FD was a fuzzy jump but Woshige actually goes for a string ending with 2D. Nage blocks low in time and waits for meteors.

[0:02:57] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

Seeing that meteors hit, Nage tries to confirm with a burst safe 2K, but goes for 5H after, and somehow messes up following up with pogo.

[0:02:58] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

 

Nage's drop causes a scramble, in which Nage manages to avoid getting clipped by JD with J2K and tags Woshige with a 2P starter combo, which Woshige bursts out of.

 

[0:03:00] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

 

After getting bursted, Nage neutral techs with JH to cover the air and Woshige aims for his landing with airdash pin. Nage jumps in anticipation of any approach and throws a bomb bag.

 

[0:03:01] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

 

Both players get hit and Woshige air-techs backwards to make some space, while Nage neutral techs down to get to the ground faster. On landing, Nage does a microdash 5K, while Woshige does a 5P, then runs.

 

[0:03:03] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

 

Nage tries to throw an item (!?) and Woshige gets a CH with f.S. Woshige drops his combo into sweep, so Nage immediately retaliates with f.S.

 

The item toss could be a misinput for 6P. 6P is a fairly decent panic button, as it covers a large area of space and gives you time to combo and calm down if you get a counterhit.

 

[0:03:05] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

 

Nage throws a poison with f.S-item toss, then microdashes before pressing 2S to cover any ground and low aerial approaches. Seeing Woshige, do a relatively high airdash, Nage tries to run under the poison for cover, but gets hit. Woshige stops his attack in case the poison would hit, and Nage pushes him back out and prevents jump outs with 2S.

 

Versus Millia, after any item toss, Nage likes to cover the space right away with 2S or 5P just in case she runs in. 2S will cover the air better and even stagger on counterhit, but if you don't want to commit to its recovery, 5P might be a better choice. I believe she can run under 5P if she doesn't press any buttons though.

 

[0:03:07] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

 

With the poison whiffing, its hitbox is still in play, so Nage goes for a pressure reset by letting 2S fully recover before pressing 5P. He goes for 5P-2H-item toss and covers space after item toss with microdash 5P, then FDC JH, pushing out Woshige back to neutral.

[0:03:09] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

After returning to neutral, Nage immediately throws an item, then uses fishing rod to cover space.

This time, instead of covering the space after item toss with 5P or 2S, Nage uses fishing rod because of the distance. Milila cannot cover the distance in time and probably won't jump at Nage from that far away, so he goes for it.

[0:03:11] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

Then he uses the cover of the previously thrown Mini-Faust to reset into 6H. He goes into pogo on block and then YRCs out of pogo stance for safety.

Either Nage had a lot of confidence in that 6H, or he didn't think Mini-Faust would land in time to be able to throw a new item. Nage could go for an extra slam to frame-trap or go down from the pogo, but he didn't want to give Woshige any chance to take advantage, so he opts to go back to neutral using YRC.

[0:03:14] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

Immediately after YRCing, Nage goes for f.S, then on whiff 2S, managing to stop Woshige's run and net a counterhit.

More 2S to counter Millia's attempts to take advantage of recovery!

[0:03:18] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

Nage throws a bomb after the Going My Way knockdown and YRCs before doing 2P-2S-(sj)bag. Woshige manages to jump out of the bomb explosion, but ends up blocking the bag.

Nage really wants Woshige to block this bomb, so he YRCs to discourage reversals and goes for a jump cancelled normal into super jump bag. I imagine that he would have gone for a longer string that would actually keep Woshige in blockstun if he hadn't YRC'd, but he probably didn't know the timing of the bomb explosion, so went for a little bit faster string. Luckily, Woshige blocked the bag anyway.

[0:03:22] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

Nage keeps Woshige in the corner with a f.S-item toss but Woshige uses 2D to hit Nage out of a follow up 2H.

[0:03:23] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

Luckily, the poison prevents Woshige from capitalizing off of it and Woshige promptly commits suicide.

...

Sorry it took so long just for one game guys!

Here's some extra stuff:

[0:05:21] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

Sometimes when you bag YRC, the opponent is smart enough to run past the bomb. In this case, Nage covers himself with JP.

[0:05:26] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

You can tell Millia's setup is a little bit loose, since she had to run a bit before doing disc, so Nage mashes 2D after guessing the mix-up.

[0:05:51] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

Nage goes for an unpredictable burst, to try to steal a round or cause Woshige to use his burst, but for the rest of the round he kind of just freaks out and gets punished for unsafe stuff like 6H-pogo and blocked kanchou.

[0:06:29] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

Woshige ends up a bit too far to connect the combo after bad moon and ends up getting thrown. Nage gets a bomb and goes for an overhead bomb combo setup. (fdc JK-J2K,(microdash)5P,(jump cancel)etc.

[0:06:52] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

Run up slightly delayed J2K will beat out fuzzy mashes if the opponent is scared of throws.

[0:08:05] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

In this combo, Millia lands almost at the same time as Faust, so this setup is also a bit loose. Nage goes for a throw, since he's in throw range. It's a forward throw, so I think Nage was option selecting it. Probably 6P+H.

[0:08:18] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

Nage went for a lot of these 6P CHs earlier too. It's very good reward and covers jumps as well.

[0:08:26] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

He gets punished for bomb bag here, but neutral techs and then does K door YRC.

[0:08:45] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

This looks like a really legit setup, but Nage IBs hair car and manages to 2P it! Wow is this the nerfs from 1.1?

[0:08:56] Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage

Disrespects 6H KD using mash throw on wakeup.

Take Away:

-Don't chase Millia too hard before controlling the space in front of you. Don't let Millia run in after you whiff a move. Instead, after whiffing a move, use a high reward or low risk move, like 5P, 2P, 5K, 2K, 2S, to punish any attempts Millia may take to run in. 

-Pay attention to Millia's combos before she knocks you down. You might have a chance to get out before the second mix-up. 

[Ando]

I assume he tries to bait burst by not ending his 2K > 5HS string with an item or 2D, perhaps it was just an error.

After that, j. 2K again because it's the god and only loses to another running low profile or j. D.

2P counterhit into basic string, at certain distances 2D is burst safe which is what he attempts, there's no real downside of doing it against female characters because you can go into Pogo anyway.

Tech j. HS then beats any aerial confrontation including the dreaded hairpin at very little risk to himself.

I'm not actually certain what makes him go for sj. 236P here, but it does avoid hairpin and while also covering the running low profile and happens to trade.

Very important to note that because of paying attention to items, even though he just got j. P'd that Nage knows he's in the ascendancy due to the poison. He uses 2S as it will catch a jump out attempt but also be advantageous on block unlike 6P or 5K which would whiff entirely.

I think going over every moment of the video is pretty tiresome but some other things of note is that Woshige immediately calls out the next j. HS back > j. 2K roundstart with a j. D, there's a ridiculous amount of 6P usage and that throw and Blitz are incredibly important in the quest to not get Millia'd.

 

[www.keeponrock.in]

I assume he tries to bait burst by not ending his 2K > 5HS string with an item or 2D, perhaps it was just an error.

After that, j. 2K again because it's the god and only loses to another running low profile or j. D.

2P counterhit into basic string, at certain distances 2D is burst safe which is what he attempts, there's no real downside of doing it against female characters because you can go into Pogo anyway.

Tech j. HS then beats any aerial confrontation including the dreaded hairpin at very little risk to himself.

Could you mark your post with a timestamp? like [2:46 Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage]

I'm going to be updating that post, so it won't be immediately clear which point you're talking about.

[Psycho]

2:51 

Nage opens up with round start j.H then drill. I really liked this because it covers two options (jump and opening up with an attack). I do think he jumped a little high though. This would have also gotten blown up if millia just stood still and blocked. (Like keeponrockin said)

 

3:00~ 

i talked about this with others and I think it's interesting. He mashes 2s in very weird (at least to me) places. You see he catches Millia when she rushes in and tries to 2K. Millia will do this often vs Faust because she can run under far slash and 41236K.

 

5:27

I cant stress how sexy that was. Blocking haircar then 2D? Oof. So smart. Wasn't even an IB I think. Good thing to keep in mind. 

 

Sidenote #1 

I'm seeing how important it is to keep air control vs Millia. You don't want her to freely jump around. Nage is constantly either 2K or 6P ing to every time she tries an air approach. 

 

6:32

If you don't know your corner Bomb/Spring/Gravity etc etc combos, here's a good reason why. Look at that damage

 

Sidenote #2

This is actually good advice for any character not just vs Millia. Neutral YRC is GODLIKE for your anti airs. He does it often when Millia super jumps. You YRC and react to whatever she's doing. Nage does this often and responds with an 6P or j.H. It's really good and I don't think enough newer/intermediate players use it. IT SLOWS DOWN TIME. Perfect for dealing with millia and chipp. 

8:05

Instant blocking swallow moon and disk was very smart. He used this create just enough of an opening to grab and close the round. 

 

Last round

6P 6P 6P 6P 6P 

I wasn't joking when I said you have to shut Millia down when she tries to air approach. But there were also instances when he ran up and 6P'd this leads to a lot of damage on counter hit and can be cancelled with item toss. 

 

Very good set showing how to fight Millia. He played everything very textbook and used all of his tools to effectively shut Millia down before she ran her game. 

[Ryyudo]

[3:34 - Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage] (since I dunno how to use the Instant Replay thing yet, using YT time links.)

Round start 2P is actually an interesting option.  Throwing it out against a character with faster normals seems ballsy/more like a hard read knowing Woshige isn't going to press anything.  Super strong against not pressing buttons, as Faust can then react to follow up options afterward.  In this case, backdashing out of Millia range and starting small pressure.

 

[3:37 - Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage]  

2Ps here seems to be Nage just trying to make Woshige block upon landing, while keeping his own hurtbox and commitment low.  It seems from that range, the only thing Millia could do to hit Faust is pin.  Afterwards, Woshige takes to the air in a good position, and it's a good read and patience from Nage to wait it out, blocking the pin.  Personally, I need to get better at reading the air situation from Millia and how strong it is for them.

 

[3:39 - Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage] 

j.P was a mistake from Woshige, and he tried to flee.  Nage on point with covering airdash options with 2K for a wider anti-air range.  Wacky hits makes it impossible to combo off of, but like the burst in the first round, Nage uses j.H, land, item toss to cover approaches.  Seeing a pattern here?  Good stuff from Woshige IBing the bomb and backdashing out of Love range and avoiding extra pressure.  This forces Faust to hold standing backwards to block/stay out of a bad situation, but buys real estate.

 

[3:44 - Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage] 

Item toss, bad item, goes to retrieve and FD breaks his run and backdashes, making Woshige try to react with 2D.  Nage's reaction is likely in thinking Woshige's going to stand still after his whiff but low committal 2P allows for 2K punish (partially due to a lucky positioning) Woshige's pin attempt, but would likely prevent anything Woshige tried to do besides double jump.  Thing I'm realizing here is Nage uses a lot of 2K for AA.  It is more likely that Millia will be lower to the ground and moving along that lower plane. Thus, 2K is naturally a better option because of this: wider but shorter (than 5K/6P) anti-air along with being lower to the ground (discouraging challenging it).  Follows up with 5H, item toss combo.  Nage reacts beautifully to item and goes for air throw reset.

 

[3:49 - Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage] 

Not much Woshige/Millia can do on wake up; f.S YRC OS a very good meaty option. Nage tries to backdash to buy more space, but Woshige is privy and runs a bit farther and reaches a bit further with 6P.  A little bit of CHaos (aay see what I did there) between mashing out of spin state and Millia rushing in before Nage bursts out of the combo that would carry him to corner and ruin his perfect day.

 

[3:55 - Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage] 

Faust gets free item toss after burst.  Then Nage controls space with 41236K, but because Millia stayed put, Faust gets another item throw because she can't get in in-time (even airdashing into j.D did not reach Faust.) Nage backdashes again to take back what real estate he can.  Starting to notice Nage's heavy use of backdash to make Woshige whiff things and question Millia's range when running in, as seen in...

 

[3:57 - Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage] 

Woshige commits to 2K, and (to my surprise) Nage punishes with a 5K.  I figure 2K would go under 5K, but I digress.  Nage shows he's a real motherfucker by RCing and trying to cross up Woshige to get hit by the bomb.  Clever, but in super slow motion, play-by-play retrospect, I disagree.  God Nage, can't YOU pause real life and count the frames?  Fucking scrub.  A sweep into pogo to continue the combo would ideal here instead, something to always keep in mind.  Especially in the Millia match up, that's risking giving up space/control/etc. and that's exactly what Nage lost...

 

[4:00 - Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage] 

Because of the airblock, Nage loses advantage and defends accordingly. Nage tries to gain it back after a blocked sweep (-1 according to Wiki), but the only move that would've worked for Faust is 5P.  5P is Faust's fastest normal (Hack 'N Slash is faster, but Nage's range wasn't good) at 6 frames - 1 adv. = 5 vs Millia's 2K, 5 frames + 1 disadv. =  6.  Assuming MIllia's 2K doesn't low profile 5P.  Woshige doesn't get knockdown off the following 2D, but YRCs his would-be disc oki.  Nage is still trying to 5P.  Figure he's just trying to trade out of pressure, but it doesn't work. ;_; #RIPperoniAndCHeese

 

[4:08 - Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage] 

In a very Faust-like manner, Nage gets lucky that Woshige drops the combo.  Nage double jumps to avoid any instant AA attempts, sees, and punishes the whiff.  Nage plays the door game to force Woshige on defensive as he lands, but Nage had no intention to go through with the door as he YRCs and throws Woshige instead of anything else, likely because of the burst Woshige had.  Just saying, I woulda been dumb and Hack 'N Slash'd for MAXIMUM DAMAGE only for the opponent to burst.

 

[4:15 - Evo 2015 - GG Xrd Loser's Final: Woshige vs ODG | Nage] 

Bad item, fetches it, FD Brakes, backdashes.  Woshige is scared at this point and jumps back.  Nage takes advantage of this and starts placing pokes on the screen to block all the space:  f.S, 3/4ths screen j.2K, a pretty far away and early 6P, allowing him to recover in time for another 6P to stuff Millia's pin. Really liking Nage's anti-air responses to the various heights of Millia.

[Lynxfort]

after 7:41
https://youtu.be/1s1e6t0EusM?t=461

why he didn't do GMW after 236S ??

[www.keeponrock.in]

after 7:41
https://youtu.be/1s1e6t0EusM?t=461

why he didn't do GMW after 236S ??

It's possible he was anticipating the burst gauge to be filled up from the pogo, so he wanted to avoid chancing that the Elphelt would burst and reset the situation to neutral.

[spec]

after 7:41
https://youtu.be/1s1e6t0EusM?t=461

why he didn't do GMW after 236S ??

Finishing combos on lighter characters like Elphelt with GMY allows them to tech when closer to the corner, probably he was trying to ensure hard knockdown.

[Coffeeling]

Speaking of that, if you're doing stuff=>pogo on characters near the corner but towards midscreen instead of the corner, DO NOT GMW. That thing will whiff and you will cry. End in sweep=>item or pogo=>item

[Lynxfort]

 

12:36
Why he did 2K.2P.2S.2D.236S instead of 2K.5H"3 hits"2D 236S which have higher damage ?? there were little health for both side .


and back to Woshige's match..
6:32
https://youtu.be/tBkCl23uWa8?t=392.

Yes what he did was amazing but.. shouldn't he after corner throw do the delayed item toss or walk back a bit then toss?? cuz there will be items won't hit or can't have benefit from it if he was too close ??

[www.keeponrock.in]

Kiisha probably did 2K-2P-2S-etc. because the 2K-2P part is burst safe.

After a throw, I never go for delayed item toss anymore, since I don't think there's enough time to do a delayed item toss and get a good meatie setup.

[Lynxfort]

It's regarding combo ender again..
I know that i asked about it and read guys answer but this situation has been accord more than one time ..and note there
A- Faust had worst health.. maybe just one 2P is enough to kill him.
B- Venom had no DP or reversal.
C- Venom had no burst.

1- 7:42
He ended combo by 2D..while he could do after RC 2S.2H.236S.GMW

2- 7:46
Like what i wondered in other post before he didn't end combo with GMW just the Pogo tongue ..

Does both 1 & 2 have better oki option than full combo that ends with GMW ??

[www.keeponrock.in]

I think maybe he wanted to avoid GMW because he had very low health. The risks involved with GMW oki is that if you want to get an item, you do item hold and then you have either ground options or air options. Ground options are risky because they're throwable and he didn't want it to be obvious if he went for the air option. So he decided to play it safe by getting an item and doing 2K meaties that Fino wouldn't attempt to throw.

Also, we have some match analysis given to us! (lucky!) http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snenl0

[Lynxfort]

I think maybe he wanted to avoid GMW because he had very low health. The risks involved with GMW oki is that if you want to get an item, you do item hold and then you have either ground options or air options. Ground options are risky because they're throwable and he didn't want it to be obvious if he went for the air option. So he decided to play it safe by getting an item and doing 2K meaties that Fino wouldn't attempt to throw.

Also, we have some match analysis given to us! (lucky!) http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snenl0

This is the match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V23P62nAabY

also another question he went couple of times RC'ing far S to 2D like 5:32 & 6:37..why didn't do 41236K then 5K "or cS if crouching" 2D for more damage ??

BTW
I liked the FDDCjK combo in 5:46

[Ryyudo]

Few guesses.  Which can be a combination of any of them, too:

1) Kazu had burst both times.  Since Nage is focused on keeping space/control, as from his match analysis, I think if he extended the amount of hits on the combo it'd give Kazu more times he COULD burst and would increase the feeling of WANTING to burst in case of high damage.

2) Getting out of corner.  Both times Nage had his back to the corner (or close to).  The first time, he crosses up Kazu and now Kazu is in the corner.  Maybe he felt if he put on more hits, it'd push Kazu out further and make it harder/less worthwhile to try to cross up or jump in (due to a slightly increased distance, it makes it a more dangerous and react-able gambit.)  Though this seems more unlikely because he pushes Kazu back to the middle of the stage first the second example and really doesn't get any sort of side switch.  Furthermore, I don't think the distance is THAT great of a difference anyway.

3) Honestly, it could be just muscle memory in heat of the moment.  If he's unsure he'll hit and just is OSing YRC (or RC in those case) he could only really react with 2D instead.  Go for combos you can land 100% of the time and stay solid mindset.  Especially useful mindset for Faust.

[www.keeponrock.in]

[0:16:29] 2015/4/30 GGXrd Mikado stream - Fino(VE) matches

Nage does the Pogo P ender here too. :s I'm just going to ask him about it.

[www.keeponrock.in]

He says he uses it when he's too close to the opponent and doesn't want to do okizeme and he wants to throw an item. I suspect Kiisha's backdash YRC mix up also is a result of trying to avoid the same situation.

[Ando]

Yeah, against some characters like Sol that just have so many wakeup options that sometimes holding an item right in their face as they wake up isn't a good idea, I guess.

[Ryyudo]

This is the Nage v Kazunoko MU we talked about earlier, but with Nage's thoughts in annotations.  Make sure annotations are on :

[zissou]

Vids with annotated player comments like that is very helpful! You maybe don't need quite so much slowdown/pausing (just let the viewer choose when to pause) but that's personal preference. It would also be cool to have the full text of Nage's notes in the description with time stamped links to the appropriate points in the video.

[Ryyudo]

Vids with annotated player comments like that is very helpful! You maybe don't need quite so much slowdown/pausing (just let the viewer choose when to pause) but that's personal preference. It would also be cool to have the full text of Nage's notes in the description with time stamped links to the appropriate points in the video.

Oh sorry, I didn't make it clear:  It's not my video.  

 

If it was, I'd happily accept the constructive criticism, though!

[zissou]

Oh sorry, I didn't make it clear:  It's not my video.  

 

If it was, I'd happily accept the constructive criticism, though!

Haha, my bad- prob best to leave the comment on youtube then. Thanks for linking the vid here anyway!

[Lynxfort]

 

 

He says he uses it when he's too close to the opponent and doesn't want to do okizeme and he wants to throw an item. I suspect Kiisha's backdash YRC mix up also is a result of trying to avoid the same situation.

Does that mean the VS characters that has neither reversal and burst  the gain is better than going to oki mix-up between"like doing either Drill cancel jk and lows like 2K "?? i feel the risks "Bad items"make it like a gambling..
..
BTW..
After Pogo P ender run and do SJ and before landing  jD combo..if you did the Pogo P ender as late as possible" didn't test vs all characters" jD will hits as a cross up..

[www.keeponrock.in]

I think it suggests something about the legitimacy of oki after hold item-toss.