Noel Vs. Terumi

[LunaKage]

Discuss the Noel Vs. Terumi matchup here.

[RockinGamma]

Damn. RIP.

[LunaKage]

It's a new thread man lol, of course there's no info yet. We've got to get a discussion going.

[Fame96]

I'm mainly going to be talking about the matchup from Terumi's point of view.
 
 
Terumi wants to stay just outside of his 2C max range. At this range, Terumi can harass her with his 5D and both noel's 5b and 5c whiff at this range.  If she does whiff you can get a quick whiff punish with 5D, 6C, or dash up 5B for damage and/or meter. At this range, she either has to be patient and wait for an opportunity to inch within her preferred range, or take a big risk.
 
 
If Terumi is any closer to noel, Terumi will need to start using 2B, 5B, and 2C due to 5D's startup.  He can counter poke with 5B on a good read, and his normals are pretty fast with better priority than noel, but noel can properly fight back at this range and doesn't need to take as much of a risk unlike if you were farther away.
 
 
Noel can have a hard time dealing with Terumi's J.D at times due to her short reach. If she tries to challenge it without a really hard read, she is just going to feed Terumi free meter and counter hits. 2D's arc and slow startup makes it a poor option without a hard read(she has to use 4D before Terumi even jumps for it to work). 3C can catch the landing recovery but only if the Terumi does J.D early in his jump, if the Terumi does it late in the jump, noel's 3C gets stuffed and Terumi can get a confirm into a free 48 heat or 3k+ damage.
 
 
Terumi's godlike 6A wrecks her jump ins and her 2D. Noel's J.D does bait pretty well but only when she does it from higher up. If she does it from an IAD, Terumi's 6A stops all of it. Her super can make him second guess using 6A however, so he can't disrespect noel too much when she has 50 heat.
 
 
When Terumi starts his pressure, he does need to keep noel's 4D in mind, However he can adjust his pressure to where 4D becomes a non factor. J.2D blows up 4D. His command grab blows up 4D (even when canceled from 2A), and by properly spacing 6B in his blockstrings, he can make noel's 4D whiff completely, wait for the noel's drive followup or reload animation and punish accordingly. He can also use his great 2A and 5B for nasty stagger if noel choose to mash her other normals. 632146D allows her to disrespect his pressure more consistently when she has meter however. Despite all of this, Terumi is not as threating as noel during pressure due to his lack of mixup options without meter, and when he does have meter, noel's mixup options often do more damage than his. Terumi has to relay more on mindgames to open people up, which can make getting damage on offense harder than it should be.
 
 
If Terumi gets put under pressure. Noel's offense can be a pain to deal with. When it comes to her drive pressure, it really depends on how they flow through their strings that determines how many opportunities you have to get out of there, but without meter, it is far too risky to mash on her, and his CA is not reliable at all. There is usually a gap when she tries to go into chain revolver, imo it is his best chance to get out when he doesn't have meter.
 
 
If noel blocks ground messenga (which is -9 on block), she can micro dash 5B for a punish. (it is a 1 frame link though) She can deal with air messenga by using her 6A after the super flash (if she wasn't pressing anything before hand)
 
 
IMO, Terumi has a slight advantage due to noel's lack of options in the neutral game at Terumi's preferred range. Terumi controls his space fairly well and can even fight as good as noel in her comfort zone. As long as the Terumi player's footsie game is on point he can dominate in this fight.
 
 
Terumi's biggest problem in this matchup is when noel finally gets in. Terumi has to be ready to guess on the mixup when he is forced to block. Without meter due to how risky it can be to mash, he can be very difficult to escape once she starts using her drives. With meter, he can use one of his many reversal options to try and turn the tide.
 
 
Noel players please leave your point of view of the fight if you want. Your opinion is very well appreciated

[RockinGamma]

Like i said on another thread, It feels like I can't punish anything in a blockstring, other than the one move with foot invul and even then I suck and can't capitalize.

BTW

<------ My face when playing vs Terumi

[LunaKage]

That's all pretty accurate, Noel has the most trouble against the characters who work well at a range. The only thing I can really add is that while Noel's pressure/mixup game may seem really good, keep in mind she only has two chances to mix you up in drive without meter, if you manage to block both, you get to punish, and even if you miss the punish, you're now back at neutral, which as we've mentioned, she loses.

If we have meter, we can use it to reset pressure in the event that you blocked the first go, if we manage to score that hit after using the meter, we don't really make it back, so we usually have to mix you up AGAIN just so we can get the kill, since we no longer have the option to super. Noel's damage on non-punishes is pretty mediocre considering the risk she puts forward to get it, so we're definitely going to want to keep all of our meter so we can end a combo into a round winning super/double super.

Speaking of blocking her mixup, it may seem impossible to some, but there are a couple of locals here in Michigan that I cannot use drive against, they block it every time, which like I said before, forces me back into neutral. If you can consistently block her drive mixup, a Noel will be less willing to use it, due to it's big drawback. That will lead to us using much more risky tactics in an effort to get anything in at all, and it becomes super depressing really quickly. This is less the case against characters she can actually play neutral against, or characters with DPs, since she can get damage there instead, but someone who blocks, and blocks well, with a character that laughs at her neutral, can easily dominate the match.

[Fame96]

Like i said on another thread, It feels like I can't punish anything in a blockstring, other than the one move with foot invul and even then I suck and can't capitalize.

BTW

<------ My face when playing vs Terumi

while it can be hard to press buttons on terumi without a dp, you have to bear in mind that mixup options are limited until he gets meter and even then said options don't do alot of damage unless he has 50 more heat for the combo. 

His gateways to mixup are from 2C, and when he has meter, 5C and J.2D.

2C is his only way to get a meterless 50/50 and without heat, the damage on the overhead is near non existant and if you block the OH his pressure ends. If you were barrier blocking, the low will whiff and you can punish him.

5C with meter leads to a legit 50/50. If you default to blocking high, he can either fakeout low/throw or jab high/low/throw. Cannot mash on him even if you ib 5C if he does the OH option, other options can be mashed on.Downside is again the damage is poor.

terumi's 2a is +1, 5b is +2, and 6B is +3. Unless you IB them, don't mash when you block these unless you have a dp.

In all honesty all you need to do is just be patient and bid your time. Terumi may be keeping you in blockstun but he can't mix you up that well without resources. Just block, lookout for a grab or J.2D. Then return to netural. Terumi punishes you heavily for getting too greedy and being too anxious to escape. Don't let him put you through the mind game.