Elphelt vs Venom

[Magaki]

Placeholder. Will update this thread with all the posts in their specific sections later and finally update the first post afterwards.

[DaiAndOh]

Hi everyone, dumping information from my previous thread! Names are put before information that was said

Dai:
2HS is not low profile though, so 2S can outpoke it. Her 2S is low profile though and can go under yours in a poke war.

Be careful how you FD. The MINIMUM advantage on Bridal Express is -5, it will be more in her favor if she does it from a distance. If you can instant block it, that will be useful for getting a turn (guaranteed throw punish)

 

If she has meter, I prefer to have my oki come from the air (such as K Ball oki). Every time her cake super has tried to hit me out, I've only gotten the weak hits or whiffs. Her meter usage is stronger on offense between her RC conversions and unblockables.

Anti Elphelt tech via Zidane and Lord Knight in images, applications for Venom by Dai

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B67f5TwCYAAzgC8.png

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B67f56CCQAEvor5.png

 

Blocking grenade high will give her less plus frames (somewhat logical, but easy to overlook)

 

On the f.S > 2HS string:

 

You can backdash. On IB or normal block, you can jump, and if they're being really predictable with this string, you can even do a low Blitz (may also catch Bridal Express?)

 

2HS > Grenade is even. 2HS is a level 5 move, so other moves > Grenade should be minus on block (less so if at all if you FD).

 

On unblockable setups:

 

Getting out is iffy. Might be able to jump on meterless setups (and get hit in air with little consequence). Might depend on wakeup timing. Of note, Venom has a very fast Face Up Getup time.

 

On Dealing with Shotgun:

 

The gap between shots in the corner is 4 frames. 5 Frame attacks work (so for Venom 2K and c.S, although I doubt you'll be close enough for the later). Jumping out also works.

 

No gap with level 2 -> level 1 blasts.

 

Stance P > HS is the only the thing you need to worry about for mashing (does not gatling into Stance S).

IBing Stance S in the corner lets you throw punish.

 

TittyFofo:
Air Bridal Express loses to 2HS pretty easily, unless she's more directly above you (in which case you should dash under her and do 6P,6HS). Depending on spacing, you could potentially do something like:

 

Dai:
CH 2HS, K ball, micro dash 6P, bh, 6HS, whatever

 

That works at midscreen, and in the corner you can get stuff for up to 200 dmg or so. Blitz shield is another option, but you might be better off saving the meter for DAA or YRC Stinger.

 

If she's always breaking out the rifle when you're setting, then I feel your sets are getting too predictable. Usually you can set one and block the rifle if they're doing it on reaction, which isn't a bad situation since you have that one ball out.

 

Again, 2HS is not a full low profile, splitting balls is a good way to cover it. And full screen/near full screen, it's definitely not a threat or even efficient.

 

Air bridal you can wait for it to blitz or 2HS, jump to meet her with an ib, jump back with j.HS, or just get out of the way, the latter isn't a bad idea if it will greatly increase your positioning.

 

And yeah, when it comes down to it, it's probably an all or nothing matchup. Win in neutral -> (get to pressure, try to open up and score a combo) x n. So are most of Venom's in the end.

I feel it's in her favor, and can be frustrating if you get hit with an unblockable or huge shotgun combo, but it's not as outrageous as some matchups because she doesn't have overwhelming speed and mobility. Despite some ridiculous hitboxes and hurtboxes, you CAN win the neutral without being too restricted, unlike Chipp or Millia imo.

Also, I must urge you to practice ibing shotgun pressure as I mentioned in some posts above. It really can help you make all the difference.

 

GodPress:
Shotgun blast will remove any projectiles that are in its radius, its circumvented by using charged balls.

 

Dai:
It's ok to block the rifle after a set. You have a ball out and are probably at or near full screen. If she stays in rifle stance you can start a careful approach or tap the ball to force to her to take other actions. If she loads pineberry, that's perfectly fine, just mind the effect the explosion may have on your zoning. If she goes to shotgun, well she's full screen again, and will usually approach from there (of note she can still super when in Shotgun, and generally common knowledge by now that she can use Grenade and Bridal).

Oh one other way to handle aerial bridal express: Gold Burst.

 

TittyFofo:
Great thing about this MU is that you get to control the start of the round here pretty much for free. 2S beats all El options out the gate, which forces her to back up or jump forward. If she jumps forward, 2S recovers fast enough for you to still AA so she has to be cautious. Her best option by far is to retreat, at which point you can begin to establish a ball game.

 

Even if it's just a P ball, you can force her to take certain actions like Dai said. If she leaves the ground to get over it, run past her to AA or get out more balls. If she switches to shotty, approach slowly and stay out of the blast range to see what she does. If she shoots the ball, do far slash into 2S and wait a second while crouching to make sure you don't eat a 5HS. If she tries to roll under a ball, pick that ho up during the recovery.

 

Obviously these options change once she has meter for Y/RC/super, so be mindful of that. But yeah, life gets a lot easier once you have at least one ball out. Don't summon balls after block strings tho, for fear of 5HS punishment. Even that's not all bad tho, cuz if she guesses wrong and you duck that shit you can punish with YRC Stinger for a full combo IIRC (or at least 2S xx H Stinger).

 

If you end up in the air for whatever reason, watch your approach. Her AA options suck outside of close slash range (and that shotgun stance dashpunch thing), so max range j.HS is still viable. Just FD if you're inside of 5S(c) range tho, cuz you're not gonna win. If you don't have meter for FD, delaying Mad Struggle is one of your least bad options.

 

I think that just about everything else has been discussed already. Once you get offense going in the corner, be mindful of cake boss super and dead angles, since her's is pretty good IMO. I personally wouldn't bother baiting her bursts unless the player is just being super blatant, since if you jump to bait and you were wrong, you'll prolly eat an AA 5Sc. Plus being knock all the way across the screen from El isn't that bad of a thing as long as you can get a ball out.