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If random parries is really a problem then they might change the input. I really doubt they'd overhaul the whole parry whiff system at this point. (no matter how much I want them to) If they took away the whiff they would have to make the followups their own special moves. I guess they could make the followups only available on successful parry but that would make the followups unusable in normal combos

 

You can bypass it by using 1 instead of 4 position, but that will be a hell of a habit to break.

Regardless, losing the ability to cover your approach with a parry here and there will be a big adjustment. It really takes away some of the freedom you have with Jam's movement.

They can definitely adjust command priority and other things of that nature, but in most instances I think it will be make one thing more smooth but make another less reliable.

Edited by ryokoalways

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I know it's more of an SF thing but not being able to easily walk back and forth is going to be incredibly awkward for footsies. I would kinda rather not have a parry (in this form at least) than make simple movement more awkward.

I found this youtube channel which has quite a few loketest videos of Jam: https://www.youtube.com/user/karlkablisk/videos

Edited by KurlyBandit

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Does jam do well against faust? I'm gonna need a sub specifically for that mu and she looks interesting 

In AC vanilla it was her absolute worst matchup. Many of the top American jam's rated it 7-3 against her because 2K literally beat every options she had for free in almost every situation, plus IAD'ing at faust might be one of the worst things to do in all of GG. So doubt that is going to be a good matchup for her. 

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In AC vanilla it was her absolute worst matchup. Many of the top American jam's rated it 7-3 against her because 2K literally beat every options she had for free in almost every situation, plus IAD'ing at faust might be one of the worst things to do in all of GG. So doubt that is going to be a good matchup for her. 

fuck me, they lowered fausts hurtbox again so it's 7-3 for I-no(my main) :vbang:

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I don't know, it might work like how street fighter 5 is doing parries. i.e. a set amount of recovery and can only be cancelled into another parry (or the follow ups in this case).

I'm actually mad that I was right. 

Sorry to harp on parry so much but I was really looking forward to playing 3s in GG.

So the way I see it, it's basically not worth using except in combos. it can't be used as anti-air because followups come out too slow, so the opponent has already recovered before you can do anything, followups are unsafe on block/can be beaten on startup. the hitbox on them aren't great and they don't auto-correct so airdash crossups just avoid them altogether. Some people have mentioned that you can parry and then YRC and get a punish that way, but if you're spending 25% meter you may as well blitz, you get the opponent in a vulnerable state, you only need to do it once even for multi-hit moves so it's easier, you get more options for what to do afterwards and even if they try to counter blitz you can bait it and get a counter hit, or do go for a guaranteed throw/super.

IMO if they're going to nerf parry this hard to where it isn't really a parry anymore then you may as well make it a special move with a button input rather than just lever movement, this way you avoid accidentally doing it and it's more natural to do it in combos. like 46D or something, not like you're using dust in neutral. Her anti-airs should also be improved to account for how parry doesn't work well as an anti-air anymore. make her 6P faster or give 2H a better hitbox and make it jump cancellable

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They will apply some fixes to parry in its current form. But since they will definitely not remove follow-ups, some of the things we will just have to accept.

-Successful parry doesn't allow for another parry input, so ky's 6h will win (also because you can't throw after successful parry). I think they will change it so you can parry again if you just successfully parried.

-Parry as a special, and therefor has recovery will more likely than not stay. I think we will have to accept this. Parry fd, parry throw, parry normals are all likely gone.

-Parry only parries 1 hit, so multi-hit like Axl's projectile will win. I don't know if it's probable for this to be changed.

My personal reasonable wishlist is for you to at least be able to parry multiple hits per parry, along with successful parry allowing for another parry. I really think they should have made parry follow-up with more alpha guard-like inputs (so it would be 632p instead of just p), That may have changed their design approach entirely.

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-Successful parry doesn't allow for another parry input, so ky's 6h will win (also because you can't throw after successful parry). I think they will change it so you can parry again if you just successfully parried.

Really? I heard that you could do successive parries.

apparently revelator 1.02 is coming out on the 24th. look for new Jam videos on that date.

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Jam comes out in 2 Days, confirmed! Expect stuff to come up Wednesday around 7PM EST I'd assume, maybe a bit after that.

Re: Parry discussion and drama:

Yes, I hate it too. No, it's not the end of the world.

Parry having a whiff animation is completely understandable. Not having a whiff animation would be silly with YRC in the game. YRCing specifically to call out a parry should give you a reward, and without a whiff animation, there's no way to do this.

The problems that the current parry has (as LOX and DarkJamOjiSan described): 46P is unsafe on block, so safejumping at Jam will allow you to punish if she parries your jump in. 46PK feels more safe, but there's a large enough gap between the hits that you can poke her out easily. Additionally, 46P DOES NOT autocorrect. So, as example, Sol does IAD jS and crosses up, even if Jam parries, her followup will whiff. And, as has been discussed in the thread, it does make maneuvering with her possibly awkward.

HOPEFULLY Pachi listened to twitter and the stronger Jam players, and touched up the parry followup some to fix these problems. It was a loketest, but I will say don't get too hopeful. A large part of the test just seemed to be just testing for glitches and bugs. Don't expect her parry to go back to XX versions anytime soon though.

Sadly the biggest problems from the current parry is her lack of a solid anti-air. Her 6P was never good for anti-airing, and according to DarkJamOjiSan, her 2H is even worse at AAing than it was before. You will need to use your maneuverability and high speed to use 5P, cS, and jS as proper anti-airs.

The good stuff is though...

Her new 2S is amazing. While it lacks range, it still has a great hitbox and is even faster. People have said that max range f.S 2S whiff is even on block, if not plus. Jam's pressure game will be insane. Her j.K has more of a use, covering an angle that j.S didn't with more range, along with being a combo tool. A new gatling route of 2H -> 2D is incredibly useful for her, as now 5H 6K 5D and 5H 2H 2D are strong blockstring mixups. In addition, her new 6H is VERY GOOD, even if you are spoiled by AC 6H (we all are, lmao). It's completely low invul, has an amazing hitbox that looks unthrowable if spaced correctly (does not actually have throw invul!), moves her forward very quickly which makes it great to YRC during pressure, and is special cancellable. While no numbers have been released, it looks like it will be + on block if spaced correctly as well! LOX said Jam still feels very fun and has lots of room to grow; he made the point that you can play her in many different ways (The safe, solid approach of KA2, the mocking, amazing mixups of Mike, etc) and she still feels like she will be strong. Remember, people said Johnny was weak in loketests, too.

In other news, I'm gonna go ahead and create the Jam Video thread in preparation for matches being uploaded. Please don't upload loketest footage there, I'm sure it'll be full enough after she releases.

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I'll hopefully be heading to the Arcade this weekend and plan on playing some Jam. I'll try to write my impressions here, but unfortunately my Jam knowledge is limited to using her as a side character in +R. That being said if anyone has some things they would like me to test,I'll try to the best of my ability.

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She is still very solid because the damage output is definitely there. Her zoning feels like it will heavily depend on 6h, as stated before. It pretty much has every property you would want on a long range poke for Jam (on paper at least). Now we just need to see whether it will translate into what we expect in matchups.

Gekirin will likely be the kick to first card as it's a combo extender that allows conservation of tension for other purposes. Ryujin's raw dmg is super high (especially at max), but unless you can get something out of it after the hit (be it positioning, set-up, or follow-up dmg), it will probably take a backseat (although 6h>charge ryujin is suppose to be great dmg). Primary issue would be that it interferes with tk ryujin in some cases. Also, corner carry isn't as valuable to this version of Jam (reload/slash mix).

Also the buff to 236236h as a combo piece super is also very good with how the rc system got changed. Jam definitely fits very well with the new rc system.

1 more day to go.

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Hm most interesting thing in the stream so far is he was able to consistently to a late hit Dragon Kick without card that would give enough time to do a relaunch. It was on potemkin, but combo dealt over 45% meterless which is by far the strongest thing I've seen so far for her.

http://www.twitch.tv/joniosan

Edited by ChaseRLewis

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No news/vids of Jam yet? I think she was only played like a few times in Jonio's stream.

 

Apparently she's not very good (yet), so people are probably reluctant to spend money figuring her out; that seems to be the norm in arcades now. There's lots of news on twitter though, I think those guys just dont go to big arcades with stream setups. Follow greatfernman for english updates and LOX bedman for JP.

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There's jam players on jonio stream today. You have to dig through today's archives and you will be tersa play a couple of matches. He had played 124 matches up to that point. It's the first day vids will come soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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There are reports that 2s is 3f. Take that how you will.

Edit: I should specify there are some that are saying it's still 6f. I'm sure this is something that will be tested today.

 

P 3F ±0
K
近(close)S 6F -6F
遠(far)S
HS 13 +1

2P 4F +3F
2K 4F ±0
2S 3F ±0
2HS 11F ±0
2D 6F -6F

6P 9F +2F
6HS 14F -6F

JP 6F
JK 5F
JS 5F (sad face)
JHS 6F

Edited by ryokoalways

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Other than the late active frame dragon kick didn't see to much very interesting with her. He did it once mid-screen vs Faust and was able to do a pheonix super after it. If people can reliably do that her damage will be very good.

Honestly, we should think of parry as armored rekka more than a 'parry' now. It seems to only be useful as combo fodder and against predictable special attacks like may's dolphin or sol's bandit bringer. Kick followup is nice, but soooooo slow.

Anyone know if you do card YRC and still get the card? Think that is gonna make or break her as without DP or Gekirin card her options don't seem super great and I'm really suprised 2HS isn't jump cancellable. Seems against an air born opponent the only combo route from it is 2HS->Parry->K but that just didn't seem consistent at all because 2HS hits so high and pushes them up, but the parries hit box is more forward then up. Also I wonder if parry->K combo's against grounded opponents. If it does that's an easy launcher, but if not a bit confused on what her options are. Maybe 2D->Parry->K?

S puffball on counterhit gave a fafnir style roll on the ground which was cool. 

Given j.S, 2HS, parry, and 6P were all nerf'd or not good anti-airs to begin with ... man her anti-air game is truly god awful now. j.S is probably the best / only option that she even has now unless the slower 6P has better upper body invulnerability than her old one.

 

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Card frame data was found, 44F to get the card, 56F to complete the animation. Can't remember how long to get MAX charge off the top of my head. So you can YRC late in the animation and still get a card.

2H 2D 236SK should work on most of the cast, if not 2H 236SK directly and straight into 3 kicks, I would imagine. Though I don't have the game, so I can't do anything, obviously.

She still has 5P and c.S as anti-air options, so I'd imagine with those + good movement + jS you can still control space fairly well. Unless they expect us to DP -> Gekirin YRC as our main anti-air, since that's a thing. Assuming puffballs still have a large hitbox as well?

---

Question about parry since I never saw definitive answers: can you cancel a parry into another parry? Would be very useful against Sol and Chipp jH among other moves. If not, parry FD isn't a thing anymore, is it? In addition, is 6H + when spaced correctly/done as a meaty? Curious

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