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Jam Kuradoberi General Discussion

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For the 4 hits version, your foot should be as high as the opponent's crouching height. For standing, you can do j.H > j.2k and it will always be 4 hits. It is confirmed that j.H will hit all standing characters except Faust and Leo.

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I've never seen anyone do it yet.

Why is that? 2D > Card doesn't give a good oki imo, it should be mandatory to YRC during this setup

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I've never seen anyone do it yet.

Why is that? 2D > Card doesn't give a good oki imo, it should be mandatory to YRC during this setup

Xrd card charge is pretty fast, you should have enough time to do a meaty attack. Also people don't really have a good sense of how to use her meter yet. most of the time I see Jam have full meter and do nothing with it other than RRC or super once in a while.

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I was watching her be played and it almost appears like she has counters. Is this accurate or did I misinterpret things?

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OK that's cool. She looks really fun even though she is drastically different from my play style.

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Xrd card charge is pretty fast, you should have enough time to do a meaty attack. Also people don't really have a good sense of how to use her meter yet. most of the time I see Jam have full meter and do nothing with it other than RRC or super once in a while.

You can meaty, but that's it. You have to rush it to do it, so you don't have enough time to elaborate a better oki than a 5k meaty. Which is kinda weak, especially in this game.

Not sure it's because people don't know how to play her, it looks pretty obvious to me that card > YRC should be strong. There is probably something i'm missing here

Edited by Zouf

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It's not worth putting yourself in meter cooldown for an unprotected mixup, and depending on the timing of it you may still have to deal with the scaling penalty.

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You can meaty, but that's it. You have to rush it to do it, so you don't have enough time to elaborate a better oki than a 5k meaty. Which is kinda weak, especially in this game.

Not sure it's because people don't know how to play her, it looks pretty obvious to me that card > YRC should be strong. There is probably something i'm missing here

Blocking Jam is never a fun thing for your opponent because of her insane + frames and fast buttons. Also you can do stuff like meaty block string -> input dash -> [low, yrc low, yrc throw, card burnkick overhead, j. 2k overhead, puff ball for plus frames].

Once she has a card stocked she has a 17 frame overhead she can RC on reaction to it getting blocked and gets a combo from it meterelessly. Combine that with a butt load of low/throw mixup options she isn't easy to block. Jam has always been more of mixup during the block string and oppressive pressure then she has raw 50/50 wake-up set play. 

Also she instant j.2K RC which is about as unsightable of an overhead as you could want AND now she can combo into 2D meterlessly which is pretty legit. 

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You can meaty, but that's it. You have to rush it to do it, so you don't have enough time to elaborate a better oki than a 5k meaty. Which is kinda weak, especially in this game.

Not sure it's because people don't know how to play her, it looks pretty obvious to me that card > YRC should be strong. There is probably something i'm missing here

I mean, if you YRC and you have extra time to set something up what are you going to do? it's not like you can set up a projectile to force them to block, your options are the same as if you have enough time to do a meaty. you either meaty or you do something else that's not meaty, that's the mixup, your buttons are + so you can do whatever mixup after you confirm the block.

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Looks like parry followup staggers on counter hit, which lets it combo into K followup. Was that in the loketests?

Since successful parry is cancellable into FD, that probably means we can cancel into FD then do a normal and it would be faster than waiting for parry to recover if you do it fast enough.

Edited by KurlyBandit

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Think she needs a bit more time still. See people not going for gekirin and still going for dragon kick cards and a lot of other suboptimal stuff. I just think she has a bit of a problem with confirming stuff into high damage without a card or counter-hit in the corner whereas all the high tiers in this game literally get knockdown, mixups, and high damage for nothing more than a little meter or really have no requirements to get it at all other than getting a hit. A geikirin card literally fixes 2/3rds of those issues which you can mix and match to the situation. Her puffballs midscreen not wallbouncing on counter-hit also makes her S puffball not very scary because she can't always follow it up without spending meter now on COUNTERHIT which is kinda sad. Her strongest overhead option to get high damage from consistently seems to have her use 50% meter AND have a card stocked and can't be used in a blockstring. I hear it can be done consistently  meterless, but I've seen a lot of people go for it and only hit it once into 2D -> card so no idea if she can even convert that into big damage. She seems to just have a lot of limitations the player has to work around. Honestly, buttons haven't seemed like a problem from what I've watched except in Jam vs. Pot. Without old 6HS this matchup is looking a bit rough right now and backdashes have to be more of a hard read other then just 6HS -> see it whiff-> do the second hit of 6HS for a combo. Having to play the entire match inside Pot buster range without long range buttons is not going to be fun when you don't have a throw invulnerable move or a projectile to YRC and lock him down with. I'd like people experiment with IAD j.S as it seems to hit crouching Pot which might help the pressure situation vs him right now as it seems she'll need some additional mixup options to not just get YRC hammerfall or pot bustered all day.

Also I think people need to experiment with IAD special YRC's, j.2K YRC, IAD YRC, and other mixup options to help her create some ambiguity. Really only thing I think is kinda dumb about her design is that she has to wait so long into her charge to get a card and her puffballs not wall bouncing midscreen anymore on counter hit. 

Jack-O I'm not really surprised by her combo's are pretty bleh and her setups are incosistent because of wakeup timings and having to motivate her minions to get any setup most of the time Not only that but her damage is very low and she can't consistently do combo's into knockdown from her 5K because none of her long range moves combo except at closer ranges. She seems to do well against Faust but a lot of the other top players have been saying Faust seems to be her only positive matchup because her 2D literally beats all of his buttons and if she gets 2 bags out Fausts poor movement lets her get stuff going or at least he is force to come to her because his long range pokes aren't good at dealing with bags.

I'd take it with a grain of salt for Jam at the second as there is a lot of unexplored stuff and we are seeing a 1 week character against characters established for over a year without a super straight forward set of options. Jam outside AC generally was considered a hard character to learn, so week 1 impressions of her not being super strong don't surprise me.

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Up to this point I think what card to charge is personal preference. If you date back to the old days, card charge was character specific. With Dragon Kick (DK) card you can 2D>c.DK Slayer, Axl and Zappa. For female character, since you can 2D>DK without card, Jam can get charge DP card instead. Now why ppl don’t use charge Flame Kick (FK) back then because:

 (i) It provides less damage than DP card (about 30-50 depends on which combo) and;

 (ii) After knockdown, you can’t charge card and get oki.

 

But now because you can charge after c.FK knockdown and get oki, I could see that prioritizes over c.DP. However, for my preference, I still prefer c.DP card because:

(i) If you are holding a c.FK, you limit yourself from using IAD FK

(ii) I see now that IAD c.DP cross-up is very easy to do, so I want to see more of this.

 

Now for puffball, I totally agree with you and think the nerf is a little over board. Of course in Reload & Slash, getting wall bounce from a non-counter puffball is pretty strong. But at least they could make current puffball counter hit roll more. With a mediocre damage, I think she should have more options to confirm into combo with random counter hit.

 

Next, the 6H. I’m assuming you were compared the 6H to AC 6H. But comparing this 6H with the Reload & Slash, this 6H out shine the old 6H. It has decent range, high priority and can cancel into command. The only problem now is that Jam doesn’t have a decent command to confirm from 6H hit or counter hit.

 

Finally, I would not value the tier list of a mediocre 12 dan Chipp who used to play BB. I personal see a lot of potential from Jam and wish an old generation player could use her to full strength. As of now, sadly, the highest rank Jam is a fat man who used to abuse the shit out of force break card charge bakc in AC days.

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Finally, I would not value the tier list of a mediocre 12 dan Chipp who used to play BB. I personal see a lot of potential from Jam and wish an old generation player could use her to full strength. As of now, sadly, the highest rank Jam is a fat man who used to abuse the shit out of force break card charge bakc in AC days.

Who do you think you are btw?

@ChaseRLewis : you pretty much described a low tier :p Poor mixup, struggles to open up the opponent, and needs meter to do anything.

I've seen her against Faust, and the matchup looks very ugly for her. She has no way to approach safely, and faust can maintain her to a mid-long range distance where she has absolutely no option there.

It's still very early in the game but this is probably her worst MU (with the usual Zato-1 who is everyone's worst matchup)

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Who do you think you are btw?

@ChaseRLewis : you pretty much described a low tier :p Poor mixup, struggles to open up the opponent, and needs meter to do anything.

I've seen her against Faust, and the matchup looks very ugly for her. She has no way to approach safely, and faust can maintain her to a mid-long range distance where she has absolutely no option there.

It's still very early in the game but this is probably her worst MU (with the usual Zato-1 who is everyone's worst matchup)

That isn't exactly what I said and what I said was more in line with oldkiller. Also Zato-1 is not the #1 in this game, like at all and is no where near everyone's worst matchup. What I said was more in line with OldKiller in that people are going for stuff that is suboptimal as there are many new tools for Jam to use but people are going for the old stuff and that just doesn't work anymore.

 

The only things I see that are truly bad about her right now are the following and you'll notice a lot of people still going for these things when she has other options now ..... which is why their play is suboptimal:

1. YRC card charge is too long. She has no ability to get a card in the neutral even with meter unless the opponent is Leo at full screen or is smoking meth. Plenty of characters get projectile YRC's for free so her getting a card shouldn't require a knockdown if someone is willing to spend the meter. She is going to need this to make hits count against characters like Faust which has always been a rough matchup.

2. Her charge dragon kick is bad. Her lvl.1 dragon kick doesn't wall splat or bounce and the recovery on it is monstrous, it is untechable so might have SOME use against some characters for relaunch combo's. Her lvl. 3 doesn't seem to have any invuln like her old one and only will wall splat if hit near the corner, does not have much  screen carry at all before they won't splat. This makes old corner to corner style combo transitions impossible and means any combo done into dragonkick will end at the dragonkick the vast majority of the time and without a relaunch or wall bounce / splat her damage is not very good. Might have some use against big characters as it also leads to relaunches if you hit with the later active frames.

3. Her new 2HS is bad for air combo's compared to her old one making certain aerial hits difficult to confirm from because it doesn't vacuum them in and hits are far apart. Also she can't combo after it against aerial opponents alot of the time because it isn't jump cancellable and she has no special move that will hit that area of the screen since her parry hit box is so small. This and her 5HS being worthless against aerial opponents makes anti-air hits kinda bleh except from IAD height 6P's. Unsure if this is just people not used to her combo's or if it is just really hard to use correctly.

4.The untech time on her air burnkick regular version is ridiculously low, making it almost impossible to do any sort of air-to-air follow pressure after it.

The good.

1. Her new charge flamekick card is amazing. It gives either a relaunch for more damage or a card AND oki. Also people are saying charge flamekick is a 17f overhead  which is unsightable and leads to big damage.

2. Her new charge DP card is amazing. From a max DP she can convert into 60% damage and her IAD charge lvl.1 DP seems safe and leads to beefy combos, and looks like BB Ragna's IAD DP in that it is basically unsightable and can be done out of block strings.

3. Her 2S seems really good as I've seen it stuff all sorts of stuff at ranges it has no business winning at.

4. Her CH 6HS is a really high damage option between dragon kick RC followup and wallbounce near the corner. Her new 6HS doesn't seem AC good but is definitely good.

5. Her normal throw deals a lot of damage and with RC is up there with the best in the game.

6. She can combo from j.2K meterlessly in some situations which if mastered could be very frightening.

7. She seems to have old style 3HS mixups from her normals into dragonkick RC.

8. Her normals seem to do really well when she is in range and 6P actually seems a pretty decent anti-air compared to how people originally reported.

9. Her ball super is pretty strong in this one given it has amazing invuln and is plus on block in this version.

10. Her tension gain seems to be crazy. Machabo easily is building 300% meter a round, just running forward combined with her block strings is ridiculous meter making doing RC hit confirms not such a big deal. Machabo is the only one I see right now RC'ing 6HS and Puffball into COMBOS on hit. They take meter now but if you use the meter you get juicy 40%+ combo's off random confirms into a block string that reasonably could build back 30%+ meter.

Again the only real thing holding her back from getting her good stuff right now imo is the stupid limitation on card YRC and 2HS not being jump cancellable. This prevents a lot of creativity and if she ends up not very good I think it will be more for those 2 reasons than anything else. Way too often do I see Jam get a hit then literally can't combo after it because 2HS won't combo and f.S into TK Dragonkick is frankly terrible without a card a lot of the time because of the ridiculously low hit stun on her normal 3 kick specials. 

She has issues but no more than I'd say Slayer has. She won't end up high tier without changes but in a tier below the entire rest of the cast seems like a bit of stretch. She's looking mid-tierish to me right now, but not uncompetitive except maybe against Faust but I'd say the jury is still out how bad each matchup is.

Edited by ChaseRLewis

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