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Jam Kuradoberi General Discussion

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Spent sometime working on optimal throw RC combos midscreen against the whole cast so I have something to work with and can figure out more how 46P>K works, I got something good consistent on everyone except venom.

Throw>RC,slight delay 5S>S>2H(1hits)>46P>K, dash 8j.S>dj.S>j.H>j.236K>delay charged j.214K(1-2hits), land dash 5S>2H(2hits)>46P>P
Elpehlt/Sol/Ky/Ram/May/Chipp/Millia/I-No/Slayer/Venom:N/A
Sin:198
Johnny:196
Leo:196
Pot:172
Faust:195
Bedman:169 replace the first 5S>S with 5S>2S, you may also microdash it and gain 3 damage.

Throw>RC,5S>2H(2hits)>46P>K, dash 8j.S>dj.S>j.H>j.236K>delay charged j.214K(1-2hits), land dash 5S>2H(2hits)>46P>P
Some small timings on the first 5S>2H>46P might need delayed.
Elphelt: 194
Ky:194
Ram:199
May:198
Millia:221
Zato:205
I-No:202 Only do 1 hit of the first 2H
Slayer:176
Axl:202 Only do 1 hit of the first 2H
Jack-O:197 Only do 1 hit of the first 2H
Jam:198

Throw>RC,22S,2S>5K>2H(1hit)>46P>K,dash 8j.S>dj.S>j.H>j.236K>charged j.214K, land dash 5S>2H(2hits)>46P>P
Sol:180
Chipp:224

Can't get ANYTHING consistent on venom except Throw>RC,22S,5S>S>9j.H>j.236K>delay j.623K>charged j.214K(2-3hits), land dash 5S>2H(2hits)>46P>P
175 damage, please help.

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Since PK links have been so difficult and inconsistent across the cast, I've been searching for alternative routes for similar damage. 

 

I've more or less given up on PK links at the current moment since it's become too character specific for me to rely on it in a match. 

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^^^That throw combo 2 is consistent on everyone but Ky/Zato/I-No/Venom. That being said it has character specific timing as well so ha...there is no escape.  Go back and try my list though, none of those should be hard, any route that starts with 2H(1hit) has no timing at all and works 100%. That last combo with 2S>2K is lower damage but it also works on Ky/Ram/May/Millia, it's dead on equal damage to throw combo 2 video you linked and easier.

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Two things I'm not sure have been discussed that stood out to me coming from AC Jam after playing the demo tonight: j. 2K RC has been significantly nerfed as a mix-up tool with the addition of 80% forced proration on RRC which stacks with the 80% initial on j. 2K, and 236S~P seems to be above feet/above knees only rather than full strike invuln.

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So uh, why is it Jam is considered so weak in this version of the game. 

I was thinking about picking her up, and i'm curious is all. 

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On 4/29/2016 at 4:14 PM, Wild Candy said:

So uh, why is it Jam is considered so weak in this version of the game. 

I was thinking about picking her up, and i'm curious is all. 

guess i'll take a stab at this...

they took away a lot of her really good old moves and replaced them with some decent but not-as-good new ones (refer to 2s, 6h, 6p??)
No force breaks which made her really scary (fb breath, fb puffball)
they took away frc and replaced it with a less useful yrc (with respect to jam, she really doesn't have any good yrc moves)
they added forced proration on rc during slowdown which doesn't help...
lack of good damage overall outside of ridiculous 46pk link, can still make up some of the damage off dust and other stuff but overall really watered down character
 

overall she's less derp than her previous counterparts and when you're playing a game with characters such as leo, sin, elphet there's not as much reason to pick up this character

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Her 6P is also pretty good here, and 2S serves the same general purpose even if it has slightly less range. Her 6H is more of a poke now and goes over lows. May not be as great as her old 6H but it can still do work. And she does have good damage as long as she has a card stored. She builds meter like crazy and her uppercut super does insane damage if you clean hit it (more than her burst super even). Also, why group Leo with Sin and Elphelt? He's not half as good as they are. In fact I'd argue that she's closer to where Leo is in terms of how good she is, difference being that she has better mixup, and he has better setplay.

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Hey guys! I'm new & I wanted to compete in GG with Jam. I have a few questions. What is her learning curve: how high is it opposed to other characters? And how is her movement & speeds? Nice to meet everyone. 

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Her progression curve is huge because she's so weak you will have to be much stronger than your opponent to beat him.

She's super fast, has excellent pokes, can combo out of her normal grab, has a counter, but struggle to effectively deal damage.

You need a very good neutral, knowledge about the matchup and a very good execution to see her potential.

But she's fun to play, like very. And her high pitch tone is so hilarious.

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On 02/05/2016 at 7:04 PM, TransientFaith said:

they took away all force breaks which made her really scary (fb breath, fb puffball)
they took away frc and replaced it with a less useful yrc (with respect to jam, she really doesn't have any good yrc moves)

it's perhaps a little unfair to compare her to what she was like in AC, she didn't have force breaks in reload and from what I understand she was good in that game. Probably because she had the damage she's now lacking aside from situational things.

I have to agree with your point about yrc though, aside from a couple of movement gimmicks she can't really use it that well, even card yrc isn't that useful since it takes so long to actually get the card.

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Jam's damage isn't bad in this though. She builds a ton of meter so she can use it at the end of combos for her uppercut super. Off a 5K, she can get around 250 midscreen. I mean, who exactly are people comparing her damage to? Sin? 

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On 5/14/2016 at 3:23 AM, KurlyBandit said:

it's perhaps a little unfair to compare her to what she was like in AC, she didn't have force breaks in reload and from what I understand she was good in that game. Probably because she had the damage she's now lacking aside from situational things.

Changed my wording, was just a general post but yes it would be more accurate to compare it to reload which is what this game is based on

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Been grinding her a bit. She isn't like Dan tier, but definitely major issues. In the corner I'm enjoying going for orb super/throw/5k mixups when I get 50% meter. They try to mash out against orb you get 5P->5S->j.D->Ryuujin->card Gekirin->charge card->oki, throw RC is probably her strongest option period, 5k just to make them think jumping out is not smart.

Think she has 4 real problems.

1. 46P~K is her only way to get BIG damage without ridiculous resources like multiple cards or 100% meter, but even that requires a card. It is hard to do on the fly, this means she has a hard time turning random hits into BIG damage consistently. Setups, throw combo's, etc. Easy. Random air-air counter-hit? eh .... go for something simple, it isn't worth fucking up if it was even possible from that situation.

2. All the top tiers in this game get damage, knock down, and mixups from every hit. She has to choose at most 2 and even then she basically only gets 1 unless she has a card. Most people need 50% meter to do what she does with 50% meter AND a card.

3. Her mixups all require resources. Without a gekirin card, uppercut card, or her throw / orb super mixup in the corner she really isn't very scary to just down / back. Her throw can be scary, but frankly going for a tic throw or gekirin overhead risks getting blown up AND you might have spent resources. Punishable mixups that require resources or nothing? That is bad.

4. Her card YRC has no business being that hard to get and sometimes even with YRC you are barely positive if not neutral on a dashup into meaty. Some matchups she has neutral struggles which with a card she can take some big risks for big payouts. Having a minimum 44f to get a card is ridiculous. Sin can eat a meat in much less and still get great oki consistently. Why does sin not have to dedicate as much for meat as Jam does cards when without cards Jam is shit? I think they were afraid of EX breath repeat from ACR, but her cards are already weaker then in ACR so getting 1 isn't anywhere near as powerful.

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1.I still feel the need to state that with a card and 50 meter, she can get anywhere from 250-290 off a practical starter midscreen. So no, she doesn't have to jump through hoops to get big damage, and because her yrc options aren't that great, it's not like she won't have meter for super. 

2. We know she's not top tier, it's not really worth comparing her to them since the top 3-5 is pretty busted. 

3. Her mixups require resources yes, but they're very good mixups and they lead into a knock down that'll let her get back a card. Not to mention that her general pressure game is still pretty decent, with plenty of ways to scare them from pressing buttons. 

4. Card YRC is stupid, I agree. There's no real reason why she has to commit so hard when others don't. 

 

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For IAD DP, I've been doing 95623[6]K and rarely get it, and when I do it's usually too high. Are there any input tricks or advice for making it easier or more consistent?

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I don't know how good or bad she was in AC. I didn't get the chance to play then. I just hope that this forum isn't like a lot of other forums where people do a lot more complaining than actually trying find stuff or adapt.There is a difference between stating facts & then constantly complaining. Which GG seems like a game to where once you get into it, you have to be a specialist. I'm deciding between her & Millia. I wanted to play her a little more tbh. 

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49 minutes ago, JDE said:

I don't know how good or bad she was in AC. I didn't get the chance to play then. I just hope that this forum isn't like a lot of other forums where people do a lot more complaining than actually trying find stuff or adapt.There is a difference between stating facts & then constantly complaining. Which GG seems like a game to where once you get into it, you have to be a specialist. I'm deciding between her & Millia. I wanted to play her a little more tbh. 

To be fair, its kinda discouraging that players above our skill level cant do any better with her than we can. So I dont blame them. I'm not saying its possible that people will find stuff with her but it will awhile before she becomes a viable threat at higher levels of play. 

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37 minutes ago, Shigekazu said:

To be fair, its kinda discouraging that players above our skill level cant do any better with her than we can. So I dont blame them. I'm not saying its possible that people will find stuff with her but it will awhile before she becomes a viable threat at higher levels of play. 

Oh no I absolutely agree. If a character struggles, then it most definitely should be noted. 

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23 hours ago, Wutai_Shinobi said:

For IAD DP, I've been doing 95623[6]K and rarely get it, and when I do it's usually too high. Are there any input tricks or advice for making it easier or more consistent?

Just do 95623k use the 6 from your iad as the first input for her 623k

 

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22 hours ago, Shigekazu said:

To be fair, its kinda discouraging that players above our skill level cant do any better with her than we can. So I dont blame them. I'm not saying its possible that people will find stuff with her but it will awhile before she becomes a viable threat at higher levels of play. 

it's kind of like snake eyez and his zangief in SFV. if he can't make him work it looks pretty bad

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I don't think it's the same. Japan didn't lab the character as much because training mode costs money for them. One of the early issues seen for Jam was that she lacked damage, and we found her damage shortly after the demo came out, and we're only finding more stuff for her. 

Edit: Also, gonna be a bit harsh for a moment, but, while not to call anyone out specifically, if people spent less time complaining about Jam and more time figuring out what she can do, maybe she wouldn't seem so bad.

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On 5/27/2016 at 6:42 PM, rayplay said:

I don't think it's the same. Japan didn't lab the character as much because training mode costs money for them. One of the early issues seen for Jam was that she lacked damage, and we found her damage shortly after the demo came out, and we're only finding more stuff for her. 

Edit: Also, gonna be a bit harsh for a moment, but, while not to call anyone out specifically, if people spent less time complaining about Jam and more time figuring out what she can do, maybe she wouldn't seem so bad.

I agree, repped her since Slash not going to stop now. Not like I'm trying to win Evo or some shit.

I'm wondering if her j.2K YRC can be used for good mixups. If you do it as low to the ground as possible it is basically impossible to confirm whether they were on the ground or in the air when they did it and you can overhead / low from that position.

 

Corner orb combo that gets you a card and oki without the need for having a card stocked.
632146HS->5k->5S->2HS(1)->46P~K

Venom, Bedman, Leo, Ky, Sol, Johnny, Sin, Chipp

632146HS->5k->2HS->46P~K

jack-o, may, ramlethal

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On 27 May 2016 at 3:27 AM, McMoney said:

Just do 95623k use the 6 from your iad as the first input for her 623k

 

 

On 26 May 2016 at 4:08 AM, Wutai_Shinobi said:

For IAD DP, I've been doing 95623[6]K and rarely get it, and when I do it's usually too high. Are there any input tricks or advice for making it easier or more consistent?

 

Hi guys my first post and all that bs...straight to the point.

I've  been having more success IAD DP with 96323K than anything else.

I made a vid, hope it helps out anyone who is struggling.

 

 IADS and Stuff

 

 

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