Yu vs Adachi

[Bloo561]

Discuss the matchup here. Any useful information from the old forums will also transfer here.

[Bloo561]

Repost from Grover from the Narukami Forums

if you're having trouble dealing with Adachi's DP on his wakeup, here's a quick solution to that problem (there may be better but this does the job)

 

on his wakup you can OS his DP very similar to BBCP's Jin 623 C DP.

 

The input is meaty 4A~4 (other chars may also use this OS)

This does the following options: on block you'll chain into 5B, on whiff, 5B won't come out and you'll block Adachi's DP. beware if the opponent has meter he can still use meter to make punishing tricky.

 

Very useful for attempting to meaty or for quick punishes as some Adachis aren't afraid to choose to mash dp instead of block. Few problems would be that it does not stop his wakeup supers, but at least he's forced to use resources as a reversal instead of just his DP

 

And When he does perform supers outside of combos (such as his SB atom smasher) you can punish most (if not all?) his supers with D-ziodyne, D CS could also do the trick, can't test it since i don't have the DLC chars.

j.A is a pretty good tool for this MU, as he can contest his j.C approaches.

2B will rarely beat j.C, it will only do so under certain timings from both players.

If you want, you can also choose to DP his j.C, but there are a few issues with this. First, the issue is will he j.C or block your DP situation will occur, (wouldve been better if our first hit of DP was still AUB) and the other issue is that there are times where the DP and Adachi j.C will clash. 

 

For when he enters his persona buffs and he attempts to get you in his Heat Riser > Ziodyne unblockable, where you will be paralyzed and silenced, if you have the meter, you can SB Issen this option for a free punish. Not sure if A and/or B Issen will catch/reach in time.

 

Air C Zio is a pretty good tool in this matchup as it will help you control the air so that he can't freely j.C his way in. it will also help in destroying his persona when he attempts to move his persona towards you.

 

When you block his 2D??(cross slash Izanagi ender) you can break his persona by hitting it with 5A and jump-canceling, but beware there are situations where if the opponent is aware of this, he can use his gunshot to punish you for it.

[FightGrill]

This match proves bullying is a serious problem in Persona and the Narukami has to be stopped.

On a serious note it seems Narukami can shut down most of what Adachi can do with air Zio, stop any and all J.C spamming with 2B if Adachi manages to get past Zio, and make Adachi take a massive amount of risks just to get an inch.

For Adachi the only way to not suffer completely is to prevent Narukami from doing anything from the moment the round starts, pretty much all of Narukami's normals will beat Adachi's out properly spaced, you can't really 2D Air Zio except off of a read because the projectile will either tag you or Narukami will recover fast enough to tag your Persona, and Adachi is in a much worse place with a broken Persona.

Facing a Yu who knows how to properly space 5B, and knows about Adachi's gimmicks will lead you to many lost Persona cards, it comes out fast, will stuff your Persona normals before it's active frames, and is better than any of your non-persona normals. The main way to beat 5B is to sweep or gunshot, both require a read to actually use except gunshot which is mainly a "stay away from me" move or to tag his Persona in neutral.

Because Narukami can pretty much shut down Adachi's air offensive, Adachi is forced to play a more defensive ground based punish game, then use any punishes to swing the momentum in his favor, and as far as I can tell that's the only way to win this matchup, capitalizing on even the smallest mistakes, this matchup is at Narukami's pace. You need to play slow until he makes a mistake, or you make a read then prevent him from doing anything else, bully him back so to speak.


Knowing how to protect Magatsu Izanagi is crucial in this match, if you get Persona broke you are out of options, you could say that for every Adachi matchup but it's really important against Narukami, you -don't- want him to be free to approach you.

Using DP against Narukami is really really bad, as far as I can tell. On wakeup he can easily safe jump over you with J.2B for a free punish, although I believe this has to be done late to cross-up the DP. In blockstrings jump cancels will easily avoid DP if you're trying to mash, and Narukami has no real reason to commit to anything dangerous because of your lack of reversals.

But it isn't all bad for Adachi, with 50 meter Adachi shuts down air Zio as an option, as Atom Smasher will punish, also he can use 2D almost free because he can punish breaking the Persona with C Atom Smasher, with 25 meter Adachi can use SB Pain in the ass! to punish moves do to its invincibility, if Persona broken, for a hefty cost you can lock Narukami down at range by using SB Gunshot twice in a row, most of the time they'll block instead of continuing to approach if you have the meter for more shots, this isn't really Narukami specific though.

Overall I think this matchup is heavily in Narukami's favor, he doesn't have to take any risks, approaching him is costly in Persona cards, probably your most valuable resource next to life, Adachi's options without them are few and far between, and if you want to make an awakening comeback Narukami can just zone you out, even without Zio thanks to the great range of his normals and the reliance on your Persona.

[Red]

I agree with pretty much everything Grover said in that post (whah, over a year ago already).

I'd argue that Narukami's 2B is a bit better at dealing with Adachi's J.C than he says it is and that Air Zio could be dangerous against 2D/J2.D, but that's based on my experience so it might be wrong. Still worth mentioning.

Adachi doesn't have to take that many risks from my point of view. Command grab is always a risk, so I'm not counting that. Neutral is ok, Yu's 5B can be annoying but I don't get the feel of "I can't play against this character in neutral". That'd be Margaret, but this isn't the right thread.

I think the MU is a little bit more even than you think, FightGrill, but then again this is based on my personal experience.

I'd also disagree that 50 meter shuts down air Zio. If you try to read him and it goes wrong, C Smasher has a LOT of recovery (Fatal), and you're likely to get hit if you mess up. D Smasher can be more useful but there's more time to react to it. SB Smasher is the god with this. As I've mentioned, J2.D can be more helpful, but you need to make sure you're above/below him so you don't get hit by Zio. There are few chances the persona will get tagged with the projectile. 

Punishing trying to break the persona after a 2D with C Smasher just seems funny to me. It's way better to just try to run up and use gun. I could be wrong since I just never thought of doing this, but I wouldn't say it's a good idea.

I'd NEVER recommend using 236AB (SB Stance, the invuln move) to make ANYTHING whiff and punish. You're not invuln frame one, and there are a lot of chances you'll get hit. And if they don't do anything that move basically screams "Please hit me!" 

If you're looking to get out when persona broken, you should Guard Cancel Assault out, rather than relying on that move.

So yeah I think the MU is a bit better than "Narukami stomps Adachi". I might be too optimistic about it though. 

[FightGrill]

2B is great for dealing with J.C, except for meaties and blockstrings, I tested it in training mode, you can 2B -very- late and still beat out J.C (To the point where the Persona is actually out), from my experience, trying to approach Narukami with anything outside of 5C is generally a bad idea, while I might be looking at it from a pessimistic point of view, and the risks I'm talking about is mainly in losing Persona cards from a Narukami playing lame, and as far as I can tell without his Persona Adachi is out of options, outside from universal commands.

I probably was too hard on J.2D as it is an option against Air Zio, but it is pretty easy to mistime in a match, more so if you were doing something before hand, but if you are just sitting there waiting for it you can punish it on reaction, however if you do it too early it'll get tagged by the projectile as you said, and if you do it too late Adachi will get hit by it.

But as you said you can go above/below the projectile but I believe this'll give Narukami more time to recover unless he's being predictable with his Zio's and you read it.

C Smasher after 2D is mainly a gimmick, works great against opponents down backing and then 2A'ing your persona after blocking, and I don't think gunshot can punish that (can it?), it also works great against people who react to it after doing something else and blocks it and 5As, or people who try to break it when you displace your Persona in general. It is a gimmick but one I feel does nothing but help Adachi, either they stop touching your Persona when you have 50 meter, or eat C Smasher, but that's just my personal experience, I haven't seen anyone bait it or counter it outside of not touching the Persona.

236AB, I should of specified its use, it's mainly for when you get a knockdown and you space it right, they do anything on wakeup you hit them, they don't cancel in 5C, or hell even your command grab, or a super, it's not gonna get you out of any sticky situations, but it'll make it harder for the opponent to get out of one.


I'm not saying I was right about the matchup, it's just from what I've seen it really isn't good for Adachi, it's def in Narukami's favor IMO, but again I may be mistaken.

[Bloo561]

While I agree with you both but there are a few basics I need to clear up.

2b vs j.c is always a risky move for narukami players as we can either win (if do it on reaction), trade which in that case adachi would be in the better position or just flat out lose entirely making it a counter hit j.c which is pretty easy to combo after. For most players unless they read it will just block it and take the pressure.

SB stance even with slight invul is still pretty risky to use as there are pretty of ways for us to beat (like throw) and/or avoid it entirely so I would be careful using that move in general.

Overall the match is in narukami's favor, but it isn't a blowout. Just be smart and you can overcome it.