Sol vs Ky

[VR-Raiden]

Let's discuss the Sol vs Ky matchup in Xrd.

Video Database:

Eng: http://dustloop.com:6608/?character1=so&character2=ky
JP: http://horibuna.web.fc2.com/GGXrd/GGXrd_SO.html#KY

Frame Data:
Sol: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGXRD/Sol_Badguy/Frame_Data
Ky: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGXRD/Ky_Kiske/Frame_Data

 

[Kizzercrate]

I'll strike first.  I keep saying the match is "even until Ky gets hit": realistically it's a 6-4 only because of the damage disparity.  It's a chess match; Ky's normals and footsies match up well against Sol, and Sol's tools are good at disrupting Ky's normally rock solid defensive options.  It's just that eating a bad CH as Ky leads to 50%+ and a nasty oki situation.  

I'll say this much though: learning the Sol matchup will force you to play Guilty Gear properly, using everything and anything that system mechanics have available to you to save your bacon.

[StrawberryGL]

I made some tweets about why I think Ky vs. Sol is a hard match for Ky a while ago, it sparked a bit of discussion that should definitely be had here so ~let's rock~

I used to think this was mostly even, with Sol maintaining a slight advantage. After playing the matchup so often i'm starting to think it's 4 - 6 Sol's favor. Sol has many ways of forcing himself in. Bandit Bringer will not only jump all of Ky's pokes, but CH them for massive damage on the way down. Grand Viper will low profile everything but lows, though this feels like one of the easier moves of his to deal with. Approaching from the air is made much easier in Xrd with Kudakero, especially when paired with YRC. Run up 2D is surprisingly effective since it also low profiles many of Ky's best normals. If you're being overly active in neutral he can always just run up DP. Fafnir is a scary move no doubt, and he can anti-air you with it in many cases. I don't think either player has an advantage here but I don't think it's particularly hard for Sol to actually get in on Ky. It's even worse that Sol's damage is off the charts in the corner, which is where I inevitably end up, and once i'm there I stay there because his corner pressure feels so effective at preventing jump outs/mashing (6H, Fafnir, Gunflame, 5K, Bandit Bringer). Once he's got you blocking obediently, you get Wild Thrown

Maybe i'm just not playing this right? I've looked for as much advice as I can and watched lots of other people playing the match, it just feels like everything Ky has is sort of ineffective, and every advantage will be taken eventually.

[LockedAndClush]

Maybe i'm just not playing this right? I've looked for as much advice as I can and watched lots of other people playing the match, it just feels like everything Ky has is sort of ineffective, and every advantage will be taken eventually.

While I kind of agree that Ky's options seem ineffective, you have to keep in mind that you have projectiles that can be very effective at keeping Sol away. S Stun Edge YRC in particular is a very strong option in neutral, because it will lead to a knockdown/setup on hit, and once you have Sol in a DC HS Stun Edge, he has to either commit to something risky like HSVV or GV, or try to use meter for DAA or BS to keep you away. IAD back air S Stun Edge (even better with YRC) is also really good at catching Sol trying to recklessly re-establish his pressure. When he starts jumping/dashing in instead, switch to air HS Stun Edge. Establish that these options can stop him in his tracks and he will be far more likely to let go and allow you to safely escape.

The most important thing when playing against Sol (not just with Ky, but in general for the entire cast), in my humble opinion obviously, is to learn patience and not get forced to play Sol's game just because he connected a few normals in neutral. A lot of time when I play people, better or worse players, the second I connect f.S>2S from max range midscreen, people become overly afraid. While it's obviously understandable that this option is strong for Sol, then there's no reason to let him dictate the pace of the match just off that. Jump back FD>backwards airdash/double jump (once at a safe height/distance) is just one option (particularly good in Sol vs Ky matchup) that comes to mind. Obviously by doing this one too many times you'll just put yourself in the corner, but if you don't try to escape then Sol will put you there anyway with Fafnir, Gunflame or Wild Throw, eating up your meter and health in the process (normal Sol combos hurt, but what really hurts are high RISC combos). That's not to say you should recklessly challenge Sol when he has frame advantage and can go for something very dangerous like GF YRC or Fafnir, but I always have the most trouble fighting against people who are not afraid to back off (theoretically putting themselves at a disadvantage because of the corner), rather than just let me get my game on. 

[VR-Raiden]

I can see it being Sol advantage in Xrd with all his new ways of breaking through Ky's defense. Kudakero (anti anti-air), Fafnir (trade on CH or whiff punish), GF back to fast speed makes it more usable in neutral too. I would only call it slight advantage if anything though. 

I feel it's in Ky's interest to use less f.S and more 2S for poking in this match. f.S gets 2D'd within range and whiff punished by BB from far. Still worth using for its max range on occasion but I'd say it's kinda risky on Sol.

If Sol is doing BB to get around pokes it's 100% a (maybe educated) guess. Ky needs to be good at recognizing when Sol is getting frustrated at losing the ground game (which Ky is completely capable of if you know Sol well and make some good reads), and tries something risky to get in. YRC does make these attempts less risky but keep in mind you can always react to YRC with your own YRC if you have tension.

[ehuangsan]

My guess is 6-4 in Sol's favor, and Ky has to spread the battle all over the stage and cannot allow Sol to get into 5k range.

Sol's 5K beats every possible button Ky can push when Sol is in 5K range, and 2D stuffs pretty much everything else. Fafnir is incredibly dangerous, and if Ky whiff's a 2D it's almost round losing if Sol punishes with Fafnir.

If you look at Ain's approach against Sol, Ain rarely hits buttons and waits for Sol to move first to decide on a button press. In particular, Ain tries to bait a 2D or 5H whiff from Sol, then does run in punish with 5K or 2S. He is even stingier than Mitsutoshi was in the past when the matchup was truly bad for Ky (7-3).

If that is how the matchup has to be played at high level today, then Ky is reduced to moving and waiting until Sol does something to determine what button is safe to press, so that would suggest a 6-4 matchup. However, I can't imagine it being worse than that, and it may actually be 5.5-4.5 in practice.

[shtkn]

agreed i think it's around 6-4 sol's favor. sol's synergy with the new RC system plus how well he converts stray hits gives him the slight advantage.

[Wutai_Shinobi]

I know there isn't much you can do about Sol's frame trap from GF in the corner, and any attempt out is a risk, but I have to ask what are the most sensible risks?

 

I have a guy I can almost beat, but once I'm in the corner it's nearly a free victory for him. T_T

[Kizzercrate]

Some stuff I learned last night from getting waxed by Sol:

GF YRC in corner: just block.  If he tends to Fafnir behind it, don't jump. 

Strings can be FD'd and then you can attempt to do something like super jump IAD out, but that carries its own set of risks, like getting air thrown and back to square one. 

If you're feeling froggy, if you do space Sol out with FD, you can play the yolo 50/50 special game: If you think he'll GF again, Greed Sever.  If you think he's autopiloting blockstrings, you can get CH Stun Dipper.  If you guess wrong, however, you're just actually dead.  And if the Greed Sever is misspaced, you eat CH Gunflame and die.  Again, not recommended as a first (or second!) option, but they are options.

Or you can do the smart thing and "reset" the situation after reestablishing space and react to Sol's next approach with block/FD/6P/VT or poke out with f.S or Stun Edge YRC if you have the meter.

[Zyed]

I dont like fighting sols 

you block too much in the corner cuz you can't jump the fafnir and you take big damage for that. Big damage for one slight error in defense is too good. Then sol can mix that up with wild throw stuff. You can get thrown in the air during corner pressure,and 5k'd. You absolutely have to block for tons and tons until you find a gap where you can super jump - dash out of throw range. Good sols can also bait your DP during their corner pressure which is another way out that you simply cannot abuse. You can DP Sol's fafnir if you foresee while blocking but it can be baited. Sol beats ky simply for his Oki in the corner being too good. Sucks that he has this AND has defensive options against ky oki. Not good to try and DP certain moves that are + like bringer and revolver (unless you foresee them) you just end up with brain fizzles.

All i got left to say is your pressure game on sol also better be accurate cause sol can and will use wake up DP, oh and Ky neutral actually works full screen against sol very well like j'd stun edges. If you can bait Sol for big DP punishes and wear him out with stun edges and 5S pokes a lot you can win. Then you can laugh at the same face Sol makes during that victory time pause LMAOOOOOO