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[Xrd Revelator] Venom Discussion Thread *UPDATED FOR 1.03*

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Post any Revelator specific observations or questions here.

There are no balance changes for the old cast outside of system mechanics. Therefore, Venom changes are his Blitz Attack, new Side Dust Followups, and burst powered Dark Angel.

Most burst powered moves have increased invincibility. I wonder if Dark Angel could be a reversal? Also in addition, Pachi specifically mentioned it doing more chip damage. EDIT: Just watched it still do 34 hits on stream.

See the new mechanics in action here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZaiRLlMaUI&feature=youtu.be

***Titan44 Edit: 1.03 update is out with new balance changes. Here's the list of Venom changes, as posted by SnowMonkeyFunky in the Sign thread:***

"Revelator 1.03 saw Venom getting a buttload of buffs across the board. They are as follows:

 

– 6P
Active Frames increased from 4F to 7F*
Added Jump Cancel
Recovery reduced by 3F*

*NOTE: The animation is overall the same number of frames. These two changes simply mean that an extra 3 of what used to be recovery frames are now active.

– 5HS
Special Cancel window increased by 3F

– j.HS
Untechable Time increased from 14F to 16F

– Ball Summon
Tension gain increased from 50 to 75

– Stinger Aim
Tension gain increased from 150 to 250

– Carcass Raid
Tension gain increased from 150 to 200

– QV
Tension gain increased from 150 to 200

– Mad Struggle
Tension gain increased from 150 to 200

– Throw
Blitz Shield bug after Throw fixed
Burst bug after Throw fixed

 

So the big ones imo are massive meter gain buffs, jH getting longer untech time making both airdash bnbs easier and short combos (like corner airthrow, clS[1] jc jH) knock down consistently, and of course 6P becoming SOGOODHOLYSCHNIKES. The 5H cancel window increase is a little quality of life buff that will make stuff revolving around 5H late BH xx S CR easier, but not really game changing.

 

6P is CH confirmable into an IAD combo, and on non CH can do something like 6P jc jS jH for a knockdown at most heights. 6P is now also a super valuable combo tool when used in conjunction with a ball hit. The way I see it being used in that context is during something like this:

corner clS[3]866 jSHD 6H xx S QV, 6P BH IAD jSHD 6H xx Set

That same combo was still possible pre patch, but substituting 6P for a microdash 5P BH. It was character specific, and even then it was remarkably inconsistent. While it may not make the extra loop universal, it should be far easier to do on most of the cast."

The complete list of changes can be found here:

http://pastebin.com/HywsGcJV

Lots of changes made to other characters' hitboxes, making them significantly easier to combo. That coupled with new combo routes using JCable 6P and nerfs to the top tiers should make Venom a lot more formidable.

Edited by TittyFOFO
1.03 update

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I used the burst powered dark angel in the location test. It seemed like a waste of a super AND burst. I didn't notice much more invincibility but if I had to guess, it would be as invincible as a normal move instead of just sucking like it does now.

Actually, if timed PERFECTLY even the regular one can get you out of some moves but thats so impractical. :/ 

Since you can't really combo into it, I don't think it'll have much advantage when its all blocked. I didn't notice more damage on HIT. :( But yeah, i'll be testing the invulnerability today. Thanks

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I asked Fino on twitter if Burst Dark Angel is reversal. From what I can tell, he said yes, but it is situational and not a good option often...

I theorized it would be strong even with ways to avoid it...we'll see. If Karl can provide some insight from what he's seen of it, would be cool.

For reference: https://twitter.com/DaiAndOh1/status/638383149982986240

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My observations of Fino Rev footage:

New blitz can be...a problem. Still have the projectile rejection aspect, and now holding it...on the upside though, if a ball is blitzed, it must be blitzed mid, so going low immediately can possibly catch people before they go into charge blitz, where all attacks will be blitzed. If you get rejected, but you have more meter, you can win a charge blitz war...it will be interesting to see how that meta develops.

The projectile multi blitz/charge Blitz (not sure which) can reject Bishop Run Out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4Z62B2AgYE#t=14m17s

Reversal Dark Angel was used once...like Fino told me, the opponent can use certain moves (invincible/low profile/maneuvering around) to get out. Still...I want to believe it can be effective if they're not planning their setup around it? We'll see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4Z62B2AgYE#t=16m46s

Oh and if it counts, I woke up to Ogawa tweeting how system mechanics keep destroying Venom....welp...

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You can spend your burst on your cutscene super to enhance it. In Venom's case, Dark Angel does more damage and has startup invincibility, but Fino has also said he thinks it might be slower? That I'm not sure about.

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Oh and if it counts, I woke up to Ogawa tweeting how system mechanics keep destroying Venom....welp...

By the fourth revision of Xrd Blitz will be renamed "Fuck Venom"

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It doesn't auto reject during the attack startup itself. Can still throw them during the charge...buuuut....auto rejects during the charge state highs, mids, and lows...welp.

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If you get rejected, I believe the minimum attack is guaranteed unless you reject it back. Highest level of attack is not. Highest level is I believe +5 or so on block and startups up in 40-55 frames IIRC (character specific).

Note that the allreject doesn't start until I think 13 Frames in, after the initial blitz and during blitz charge. That aspect is slightly weaker, as now low blitz can't reject mids. So a ball that's blitzed, you can go MAYBE go low if they don't reject you. Low reward though without meter.

Edited by DaiAndOh

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Hi everybody, I've noticed a thing that has me worried... in Revelator Fino and other Venom players dont use anymore the c.S.>SCarcass loop, could it be posible that the great blockstun of c.S or Carcass has been modified?!!! 

In this video I see Fino couldn´t continue a combo from a very close SCR on a crouching elpeth !!! min 36:00

 

ARE WE, THE LOYAL VENOM PLAYERS DOOMED?!! :gonk:
 

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Now that the demo is out I can test things for people who don't have PS4s.

VS Sol, regular Dark Angel does 175 damage with all 34 hits. Burst DA does 210 damage. Dunno if those exact numbers were already mentioned in this thread, but maybe someone cares lol. In OTG scenarios, the difference seems super negligible, so don't bother.

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I haven't had much time with the demo unfortunately, I need to test some Burst Dark Angel post flash reactions.

Jack-O seems to have a standard lightweight hurtbox, kind of reminds me of I-No's. Jam on the other hand reminds me of Millia, slight delay needed in airdashing during c.S(3) combos, is lightweight unlike Sol.

"blitzproof" mixup concept (showing that with the new blitz, can't guard a low and a projectile at the same time. 

 

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That's really interesting. I like that. Earlier, I was thinking the new blitz would have crippled Venom even more, but if you can't do projectile / low, it doesn't.

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That's the main upside for Venom. However, it does hurt him as well.

Do note that once blitz gets charged to a certain point, it rejects highs, mids, and lows, and even supers (rare situation, but it has happened with Bishop).

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1 minute ago, DaiAndOh said:

That's the main upside for Venom. However, it does hurt him as well.

Do note that once blitz gets charged to a certain point, it rejects highs, mids, and lows, and even supers (rare situation, but it has happened with Bishop).

Can you be thrown while charging?

And damn, I checked this forum AS you replied... wow

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Corner dust chombo:

5D, ground chase, 5HS, 6HS, P ball set, 2S, ball hit, S Carcass, 5HS, SQV, 5P, ball hit, IAD, j.S, j.HS, j.D, land, 6HS

154 damage on Sol. Against the fatties, you can modify with PQV into 5P, 6HS for the ender. Very easy to get the charge for S Carcass due to the way they slide down the wall.

Didn't find much at midscreen aside from this:

5D, ground chase, 5HS, 5HS, KQV, 6P, 6HS, ball set

Piddly damage (like 87), but at least you get knockdown and a ball I guess? IDK. Haven't really seen what the Japanese players have been using.

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So for Burst Dark Angel, you can mash to get YRC and PRC. YRC allows you to jump and escape (probably not Pot, maybed not Bedman?), PRC of course allows you to block, but not escape, invincibility/low profile may work against it.

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something pretty small but worth noting is that crouching johnny blocks all 3 close slash hits like pot and bedman. on hit its still two though

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Oh I never noticed! I'll have to test if it's like Ramlethal where you have to chain into c.S or if you can c.S raw.

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