Venom vs Zato

[DaiAndOh]

Discuss the matchup here. 

Dumped info from the prior thread, person's name shows their contribution.

Dai:
(on Break the Law)
If he doesn't have 25 meter and you're close, stalk him and punish him coming out, probably with c.S.

If he does, the threat of Break the Law YRC is too good. Setup and tap balls based on where he may appear, maybe HS Carcass if close enough?

 

SnowMonkeyFunky:
Did a little practice/testing against blockstring > drill > puddle summon ]S[ with the advice given by Dai at Apex as well as input from a couple Zato mains I spar with online a lot. Here's what I found.

 

CR only kills summon if drill is blocked from the middle of Venom's hurtbox and forward. 2K is a lot more consistent (still kills little Eddie if drill is blocked farther back), faster (to the point where you can kind of react to Zato raising his hand on 214H), and you can use it to cancel into a ball set, fS to poke, or stinger/CR for more immediate space control. If you get stuck in that awkward range where drill triggers proximity guard and hitting a button/jumping/standing/doing anything gets hit, then you kind of have to deal with what comes next. If you're ballsy you can FD jump out, and even just raw jump in the opposite direction of the drill at some ranges. In general, just be aware of what blockstrings commonly lead to this kind of situation and preemptively FD to push yourself back into the drill, then act accordingly.

If you IB the drill you can semi consistently IAD out of any attempted summons and punish, but if they read this and don't summon then you'll probably eat a 6P. This is a lot less consistent when cornered.

Dai:
On the last line, it applies to 2S > Drill blockstring. IB 2S and you can IAD to punish drill.

While many Zato's will get mindfucked, smart ones can do S summon (anti-air) to stuff it when they see you do it. The threat of it if you can do it though can help neutralize it.

 

Redefinition:
So, while I'm sure that this is common knowledge to some, I want to give some very basic knowledge on fighting Zato for some of the newer players:

When Zato has Eddie out and is pressuring you, IB Eddie, FD Zato. This is the biggest thing I cannot stress enough. It will make his pressure much, much more manageable and give you some more outs. (EDIT: This changes when you're low enough to get chipped out and you have a lot of meter. You just need to FD everything. Also good luck.)

WATCH FOR TICK THROWS. This can be very hard to get out of since you're focusing on blocking his high-low game so much, but his command grab is very very good (long range, good damage) and leads to an unblockable setup if he has Eddie gauge.

If he uses Eddie to poke at you from afar while he's running up, you can 2K or 2P Eddie after he does ]P[ or ]K[ or ]S[ to get rid of Eddie, but be very very wary about doing this.

For specific Venom knowledge: He can summon from puddle after he does drill, so don't be dumb like me and try to air summon above where he drilled, because he'll Nobiru you out of the air. Backdash is your friend when he's trying to chase you down with little eddie. Try to find time to summon an H ball, backdash a while, and you can teleport to the ball to get away from Eddie and closer to Zato. This works a few times, but eventually they'll catch on and punish, so only do this a few times.

 

Dai:
Hitting the puddle with 2K after far drills is simple enough, taking out the threat with a no commitment normal whether or not he summons immediately.

Reki:
Good practices I've learned after playing dozens of games but never winning against my local zato:

K-ball, j.P ballhit

It's the best I could do to get anything started. P-ball is problematic in neutral because zato always watches out for it then responds with far drill. As soon as I recover from P-ball I just end up abandoning that ball to jump away from the drill coming up my ass.

The great things about K-ball and jumping to hit it in this matchup is:

A) if zato instinctively runs into position to drill you from afar, you obviously won't get hit because you're airborne.

B) j.P to control space then air backdash to land and 2K the puddle (to destroy the puddle and you can get lucky and hit eddie doing nobiru). Also don't forget to OS the 2K you used to diffuse eddie into P-ball, far S or more often teleport to avoid the next far drill depending on where zato is.

C) forward j.P, landing then running in outside of zato's 2S range to attack with repeated far S, P-ball, far S, P-ball can work as long as the drifting K ball is till there to cover you from zato doing a random iad. As your K ball passes over your head, you can K-ball again at that range to do ye old dash jump K into high or low. If zato goes airborne, immediately stop everything to do P-ball, hit it with 5P then run along with it to continue pressure.

D) dash jump S, airdash to can punish zato's far drill or attack without the risk of zato's projectile reflect fucking you up.

E) jump H to suddenly snipe eddie crawling in the middle of the screen. Happens sometimes when zato makes a wrong read expecting you to iad then does nobiru next to him. To add, running in then poking eddie with 2S cancelled into teleport to avoid is another option to diffuse him in this situation.

Some assorted notes:

1) Like the pot matchup, ending a gatling with S carcass ride will get your ball reflected back to you then which will result to getting knocked down afterwards. If you are expecting zato to reflect it back to you, you can either jump cancel instead to catch them unaware expecting your carcass then continue from there OR you can still throw out the carcass then immidiately follow it with H-qv which hillariously avoids the reflected carcass and sometimes score a counter hit which you can combo into 6P ballhit 6H

2) P-ball, H double head morbid from across the screen. Retarded things like this are sometimes what it takes to scam some damage or gain momentum in this matchup. You'll need them.