[CF] Naoto Kurogane Information/Discussion Thread

[Zouf]

I was thinking about something.

Do you think Phantom Pain has 20f or less startup?

If yes, it would be possible to fuzzy guard with a Level 5 move > phantom pain to make it a true unblockable.

But it looks slower than 20f though :3

[Verimeloni]

Is there any way to use 6C mid-combo?

[Dawn of Musou]

Afaik not unless you have meter to RC. I've seen Kaqn do 214D>RC>6C>665B>en236B>etc for a sideswap into corner. I've also seen something similar from 623C>RC>6C but other than that, I dunno. Maybe from a CH charged D lol.

[Verimeloni]

Is Phantom Pain an S starter?

[Dawn of Musou]

Yup. You still get a solid 3.6-3.7k cause of how good the base damage is though so it's no problem.

[Zouf]

They still have this stupid S/N/L system? Damn.

I thought it was gone. 5A / 2A are now N starter right? Because the combos are pretty long now on those.

[Verimeloni]

Starter levels aren't listed in the OP :u

[Dawn of Musou]

Nah 5A and 2A are still S. You can tell cause if you tried to do crouching 5A/2A>5C>236BBC or 5A>5C>Ddc>en623C>5A>2C>etc, they would drop. 6A is S too. I just think his stuff, especially Ds, just don't affect the combo timer much and have lots of hitstun, which lets him do some long stuff even off S starters. Like the optimal 6A route works off crouching 5A too lol. It's great.

[JD10-Da Realist]

Went ahead and made a Naoto Discord Server

https://discord.gg/014U1pWJ81pF64tjT

[Bloo561]

Don't want dustloop to become barren, so just posting some info me and the other members of the discord has been working with as I know some people don't use it.

Dawn has been posting shortcuts for Sway Dash Cancel:

214A2366B(Sway into Banishing Fang)
214A6623C(Sway into Crusader) 
214A663214D(Sway into Slash Kaid) - Video showcasing

https://twitter.com/DawnofScrubs/status/773686972649005056

 and @Dr_Mcn1njer posted that if you 6D you can just press 6 again to dash cancel (mostly for pressure and neutral) 

Just a few things we discovered in the past few days.

 

 

 

 

[Hyde]

22 hours ago, Bloo561 said:

Don't want dustloop to become barren, so just posting some info me and the other members of the discord has been working with as I know some people don't use it.

Dawn has been posting shortcuts for Sway Dash Cancel:

214A2366B(Sway into Banishing Fang)
214A6623C(Sway into Crusader) 
214A663214D(Sway into Slash Kaid) - Video showcasing

https://twitter.com/DawnofScrubs/status/773686972649005056

 and @Dr_Mcn1njer posted that if you 6D you can just press 6 again to dash cancel (mostly for pressure and neutral) 

Just a few things we discovered in the past few days.

 

 

 

 

So you just do some thing like

1) 5B>5C>6D>6623C > stuff

or is it

2) 5B>5C>6D623C > stuff

number being that you hold 5D and then go into 6623C and the first being you actually using the 6D drive move.

[Bloo561]

It's more like 2 cause you already inputted the first 6 so you just need the other, but yeah it feels awkward to do while doing combos so I would just recommend doing it how it was designed with 5D 6623C and try to do it that way. 

[Hyde]

17 minutes ago, Bloo561 said:

It's more like 2 cause you already inputted the first 6 so you just need the other, but yeah it feels awkward to do while doing combos so I would just recommend doing it how it was designed with 5D 6623C and try to do it that way. 

I have been trying but the Window after the dash cancel is so tight. I have litterally been grinding 5B>5C>5Ddc nonsense said nice the game dropped. I can feel the  my thumb brusing from the inputs lol. I just don't get it cause I can do E.Ryu 1frame bnbs in sf4 but I can't get this...idk. But 6D is easier to do that 5D? Also by any chance is 561 your area code?

[Zouf]

It's 1. Clearly the 6 from the DP isn't taken into account for the dash cancelling. You need to input 6D > 6623C

[capsuletoyco]

If anyone is having trouble connecting shift sway into phantom pain in the corner, you can shortcut the input to 214a 7a 

[Hyde]

On September 25, 2016 at 11:43 PM, capsuletoyco said:

If anyone is having trouble connecting shift sway into phantom pain in the corner, you can shortcut the input to 214a 7a 

You don't have to press 2 at all?

[capsuletoyco]

Nope, because when you do the 214 input for shift sway it holds onto the 2 so you just do 214 A 7 A

[Zouf]

Doesn't work so well. It's not necessary to do that tbh, the hardest part is to time the dash cancel so you can cancel it immediately by 214A

[Verimeloni]

you can just do (66) 321478A

[Zouf]

Someone knows the science behind why sometimes 5B will cross down in the corner when trying to do en236BBB > dcen623C > 2C(w) > 5B > 2C > stuff ?

I think it has something to do with the angle of the en623C but not sure.

If someone has a theory behind this mystery, I'll be glad to hear it

[capsuletoyco]

If you're having trouble canceling rekka out of shift sway dash, you can try it two ways.

Personally I find this way to be easier and it's how Kamikaze does it. 214 A 66 2369 b the reasoning behind it instead of just trying 236 b is that the 9 will prevent you from getting divine smasher instead of rekka.

or you can do 214 A 2366 B which works just as well, but for me it feels weird.

 

 

If anyone has any tips for landing dashing C en D dp ender on the corner combo that would be helpful. It's really the only thing I'm inconsistent on at this point and I just can't seem to figure out the correct timing.

 

 

[capsuletoyco]

New fun fact about shift sway phantom pain (learned in challenge mode no less...who knew it would actually be useful...) 

you can do 2147 and just hold A and you'll get phantom pain. You are essentially just TK'ing into it. 

I believe holding A while doing dash cancel from shift sway will increase your chances of connecting rekka after 6A. 

And if you haven't figured it out yet, Naoto has a kara throw like Ragna using 5B.

[Bloo561]

For anybody picking up Naoto from the NA demo if you check #BBCF_NA on Twitter some stuff various players have found in tech. Around November launch im going to post some of the more information tech since it's super early in the console cycle.

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=%23BBCF_NA&src=typd

[Bloo561]

With a week till BBCF officially releases in the states I going to follow up on my promise and post all the info people from the internet and inside the naoto discord have found so nobody is lost if they aren't in the know or is not part of this discord(which you should be part of btw) i'll update this as I see fit. With that out of the way let's begin.

Execution

One of the biggest concerns about naoto is his execution. If you are not up to par with his best stuff then playing the character could be tricky. Luckily Dawn found shortcuts to pull of some of his hardest execution heavy stuff on twitter:

Sway into Banishing Fang(214a2366b/214a12366b) - https://twitter.com/DawnofScrubs/status/775643106842701824

 

 Sway into Slash Kaid (214a663214d) - https://twitter.com/DawnofScrubs/status/773686972649005056

Sway into C DP (214a6623C) - https://twitter.com/DawnofScrubs/status/773810630096744448

Combos

You will find a huge amount of combos from twitter about his combos here are a few highlights:

Basic BnB with Dawn : https://twitter.com/DawnofScrubs/status/773362178279616512

Basic Combos/Overdrive Combos from Gasutasutakora(completely japanese but could be helpful for learning combos):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUwddcwpI-w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBA9Xgck75k

Sway Safejump/OS from BloodDragonZero(inputting j.214baa as your safejump): https://twitter.com/BloodDragonZero/status/776343246347837441

Players to ask

Usually hard to find players pretty knowledgeable about their characters, but here are a few guys if you need help:

@DawnofScrubs

@Guymam

@SuperKawaiiDesu

Guide

Some people are more readers than watchers and I am one of them here are a few basic things about Naoto:

Naoto Guide from Dawn(basic notes with basic overview of him, his normals, and combos): https://www.evernote.com/shard/s668/sh/7e48fd56-70cc-4ab3-99bd-17763780feb0/2982606e59a0cf9dffda4ce1c5fbc31f

Naoto Frame Data from ProblemSkater(may or may not be accurate): https://www.evernote.com/shard/s365/sh/cafc42c2-a098-4645-a126-26a3c7562b4d/39d431648330c294494b90fa29684498

Naoto Revolver Action Table by myself: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Vyw5mMJQkGXUVrPyyvZeiM3ZwIpWiGAFcuOLL8YLf0/edit?usp=sharing

Naoto Neutral Tips from Rurouni: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forums/topic/12939-cf-naoto-kurogane-neutral-tips-and-tricks/

Naoto Mixup Tips from Rurouni: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forums/topic/12957-cf-naoto-kurogane-mixup-pressure-and-oki-thread/

 

Conclusion

Overall Naoto is a strong character that will have trouble fighting in the neutral position and will take a while before you get used to how to play him but I do feel he is good and has a good shot at fighting everybody in the cast.

Luckily we have people online and on discord to help. Join the discord here: https://discord.gg/014U1pWJ81pGfG6fg or just start a discussion here on dustloop. While it is barren sometimes people do want to help. 

Have fun and always DIVVVVVVIDDDDDDDEEEEEEE SMASSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA!

Last Updated: 10/28/16

[Indigo]

Been trying to play Naoto since the English release here. I'm really having a hard time pulling off his basic stuff, though. For example, 5B > 5C > 5D66 > 623C. I can pull it off sometimes, I just can't get it down reliably, especially in netplay and in the heat of working for a confirm... it feels so punishing as either he gets stuck doing 5D or worse, gets a DP blocked, if I'm not on point. And not to mention, though tell me if I'm wrong, he can't even do that off 5A? So I often don't get clean 5Bs or 5Cs to do it (pickup 5A won't connect?). Anyway, my question is... for canceling into en623C, is 214A66 more relaxed on timing, or is it just me? I'm feeling like it buffers easier, but I dunno, I just want to be sure if either one has more room for error than the other, I want to go with the more reliable one to lessen my scrubby blocked 623Cs...

And, any tips on what to do after a Guard Crush with his Drive? I know he can get Divine Smasher, but say I land a 5[D] midscreen and don't have the meter? Is it just for show at that point? Do I have the advantage to try and close in with a 6C?