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Fu11m3t41

[CT] Iron Tager General Discussion

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I didn't follow any of that...Do you mean hitting them with 2C while they're in the air? I'm unfamiliar with the term 'heat' and the number references you gave.

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heat = atomic collider sorry. the situation locks them in place enough to land atomic collider, which is unblockable, you cannot tech out of atomic collider because it is considered an unblockable strike, NOT a throw.

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Are you sure on this kensk? I was trying it against rachel, and everytime she'd fall low enough after the 2C to make collider miss. This is at regular jump height, I guess it could work at super jump height, but that seems substantially less useful.

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The blockstun doesn't lock them in place, after a few frames they are still allowed to fall.

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reversal hotaru is iimpossible if you barrier guard it (but not if you IB), i checked thouroughly, its a true unblock unless they instant guard. it only works if they get touched by 2c at peak jump height, however. this isnt remotely amazing or anything, but if you see where they are, when you do 2c, you might as well buffer DP and hit C if they barrier it above you. instant barrier hotaru works, but timing is tight, and they are unable to do anything else. if they simply IB, they can jA. if character has no air reversal, this works 100 unless they IB j.A instnatly after the 2c. depending on positioning, they can IB air dash too, but this is hard. to summarize: if you see them jumping and they block 2C, you can pretty much always get atomic collider depending on position, though escaping is possible, they absolutely MUST ib it and do the counter instantly.

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also i know this is obvious but this is much harder on small chars, its stupid easy on hakumen and tager, but near impossible on carl

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I know people can tech out of our 720 but lately i have used a spark bolt and quickly jumped as they came back to me for the obvious buffer and i have not seen one person get out of it yet you catch them as they are recovering off the ground with a pretty high success rate. I dont know if this will continue if better players have a way out of this but i had not seen anyone use this technique and ive watched some mike z videos as well as other good tagers. Just wondering if anyone has used this.

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I know people can tech out of our 720 but lately i have used a spark bolt and quickly jumped as they came back to me for the obvious buffer and i have not seen one person get out of it yet you catch them as they are recovering off the ground with a pretty high success rate. I dont know if this will continue if better players have a way out of this but i had not seen anyone use this technique and ive watched some mike z videos as well as other good tagers. Just wondering if anyone has used this.

It's possible for them to jump out of the 720 if they're fast enough as they recover off the ground, hence my comment on it working on noobs. It works, just don't get predictable with it. I try to hide my 720's as much as possible. I've got nowhere near the mastery of hiding them as MikeZ's Tager from what I've seen. Those two rounds I saw him with HeartNana....wow....just wow.

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Never underestimate 3C though, it's actually quite good despite what you might think by looking at it. If you have bar, 3C RC 236B or Volt Spark into huge damage to punish people who try to jump out of stuff. For example, I often use 6A to setup for a 360 or 6B, but once people start trying to just hold up back to escape these, 3C will tag them and get you the damage.

From the complete tager guide topic.

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Yeah i have had a lot of luck with that i can buffer the 720 out of the collider but it has to predetermined and quick but rarely can i hit anyone with it cause it throws them too far even if magnetized have you found a better use for that i figured thats a good buffer in corner situations

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I'm still pretty new when it comes to this "new" notation. (Used to qcf/hcb). I've gotten most ove it down, but I keep seeing this "xx Collider". So my question is, what exactly does "xx" stand for?

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xx stands for canceling a move, usually referring to specials. So Spark volt > 5C > 6A xx Collider just means bouncing them off the wall, comboing into 5C, gatling that into 6A, then canceling it into collider.

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I'm aware Tager's prejump frames are the longest in the game BUT... tager vs tager if one does 5C5D string and other holds up+back after blocking the 5C you will get hit by 5D even though you are clearly in the air already. other characters can block it just fine. What is going on? also Tager's crouch guarding hitbox is bigger than his crouching hitbox otherwise, so if they are crouch guarding jB is instant overhead on himself -_-

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What is going on?

You're getting hit out of pre-jump frames. 5C has 19-20F blockstun, 5D starts up in 23F, so since your jump startup is > 4F he gets nailed.

For further proof, try Ragna vs. Tager: Have Tager do 5C->5D. If Ragna blocks the 5C he can hold 7 to jump and block the 5D...if Ragna gets hit by the 5C he can stand and block the 5D, meaning it's not a combo...but if Ragna gets hit by the 5C, he cannot jump and block the 5D, he'll get nailed out of jump startup.

Also j.B seems to miss on crouching Tager for me.

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What to do about incoming air dash attacks? Seriously...this seems to be my biggest obstacle with Tager. Just about the entire cast can come in and air dash and start a combo or block string for free. You can't Atomic Collider it 90% of the time, Tager has no good anti-air, you can't use :d::cbt: because the reach on it sucks horizontally and most of the time they've already hit you by time it even comes out. You can't always back dash. I just can't find a solid answer to this tactic.

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do the following 2D rc 6A 2C atomic collider, b sledge, A (should be 7 hits), cancel into atomic collider, do reset starting from atomic collider, do walk forward, 6C, collider (hold a sec), this should be at the 5 hit mark, yuet the opponent can tech in this part of the combo, but couldnt in the previous combo, same # of hits, both end in collider. this consistently happens after atomic collider start, im just wondering why, is there tech proration in combos? why? im not sure, can someone tell me? mikez?

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There certainly is tech scaling. If you look at the frame data (for the lazy) under the "PP" column (for Proration Points) the more points on a move the more tech scaling. Collider has quite a lot: 3000 first hit + 6000 second hit; whereas lots of his other moves have 100 or 200.

Basically, you never get Collider->OTG->Collider->OTG in any combo ever. Not even if the first Collider is a counterhit. You can Spark after the 2nd one but they'll always be able to tech before they land.

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I'm not sure why people seem to have such a problem with blocking, honestly. :^)

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Well, obviously there are those moments where you need to block and I do. I'm assuming that's just a funny way of saying, he doesn't really have any reliable anti-air and look for openings...:(

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