[CT] Iron Tager General Discussion

[individuals]

i believe voltic charge can take a burst. im probably wrong. if u have time to do that u might as well block right? in general after a collider and they are low they usually burst on the next hit. and since AC is pretty long, it gives you plenty of time to look at their hp situation. so usually i....combo>AC>look! they are low hp! (and if im fast enough look to see how much barrier gauge they got)>2D>RC>blocks. if they burst asap it will leave them pretty close right after u 2D. although. this doesnt work all the time, just against people online. because its probably the least probable gimmick for bait bursting i will ever use. since 2D will probably whiff anyways. or after AC > 5D > (bursted) wait, sparkvolt! although smart players will just keep still after 5D. im not good at this.

[Osuna]

i believe voltic charge can take a burst. im probably wrong. if u have time to do that u might as well block right?

in general after a collider and they are low they usually burst on the next hit. and since AC is pretty long, it gives you plenty of time to look at their hp situation.

so usually i....combo>AC>look! they are low hp! (and if im fast enough look to see how much barrier gauge they got)>2D>RC>blocks. if they burst asap it will leave them pretty close right after u 2D. although. this doesnt work all the time, just against people online. because its probably the least probable gimmick for bait bursting i will ever use. since 2D will probably whiff anyways.

or after AC > 5D > (bursted) wait, sparkvolt! although smart players will just keep still after 5D.

im not good at this.

If you're using a non comboable move, and blocking from an RC and then punishing with a non comboable move, wouldn't it just be better to use 6C then spinny super? It's like 20 times safer and more effective. Since if they see a 2D they shouldn't burst it, and if you're going to spend that much tension anyway? For less damage?

I never thought of this, but if you don't have gauge for super, could you just 6C Jc and air guard it? I guess Charging is better though since you don't get any knock back or what have you.

Genesic is having to do with the beginning of life or Genesis.

[individuals]

yea, well when he said anything besides magnatech its hard to think of good ones. and yea, i guess using JCable moves to bait burst is an ok idea. or backdash. beginning of life = end of life for them. as far as the rest of the super goes.

[Osuna]

I was browsing through my few saved replays and found one where someone had a sliver of health after a 360A, I did 2D and he rolled/Bursted before it hit him because during the hit would have killed him. The the gold burst autoguards the hit from 2D then I back dash the burst, and jab him and he dies. This situation won't come up very often, or maybe Ever, but there you go some circumstances where you can backdash the burst.

[Tyser]

What's XYH?

[Mike Z]

XYH = Cross Your Heart = Voltaic Charge = 421+B.

[Nobus3r1]

~1 week into using the octagonal gate and I can say that it has made a big difference and probably not in the way that you would think. Yes, being able to feel the angles does make Voltic Charge and Atomic Collider easier to execute (at least for me). However I've found the biggest help being that I can now more easily hear where the joystick is positioned. As with a square gate there where fewer clicking noises when executing a move so outside of training mode (with the feature that shows button presses turned on) if I fucked up it wasn't always obvious what I had missed. Whereas now it's easier to figure out as each move should have a certain number of clicks (I also realize that this probably isn't the best thing to rely on long term for reliability of execution) and if you hear more or fewer than you're supposed to then you messed up. Baby steps.

[happymonkey]

I changed from square to octagonal and never looked back. In training mode I saw that my biggest problem with the square was hitting the diagonals. I also use various grips depending on the character I play so I'm glad to see I'm not the only one lol.

[dumpsterdiver]

Octagonal is far superior for 360 characters IMO, and any character that is dependent on doing a lot of quarter circle motions. I prefer a square for charge characters (of which there is very little in this game).

[Tyser]

Does Voltaic Charge have invincibility the entire time he's charging up or is it only on the start up? I read the guide but it didnt specify I think. Sorry for the nubness.

[Drges]

I used an octagonal gate for a brief period, and while I like it for when I ride the gate, like for 360s, I can't say I like it for QCF/HCF, and DP motions. I keep accidentally hitting the gate due to the shorter throw for the corners, and that throws me off. Probably something I can get used to, but I can already perform 360/720s consistently, so meh. As for grip, don't know what it's called, but index and middle on the ball, outside of the ring touching the shaft, and thumb on the top.

[C_Three]

Who are the top tagers right now aside from Mike?

[A.X.I.S.]

well i was playing online matches as tager, and ran into people who likes to stay away and punish me for sledge's and other delayed movents..thats no problem, the problem is how to trick them into a magnet without relying on voltec charge, i wanna use that as a surprise option not a cheap way for magnet, any idea's?

[quixotegut]

Does Voltaic Charge have invincibility the entire time he's charging up or is it only on the start up? I read the guide but it didnt specify I think. Sorry for the nubness.

Voltic only has Knee to Head invicibility after start up, and until release. I think you're vulnerable until your arms are brought to your chest. You can be tripped out of it, too. I say Knee to Head because, iirc, it'll absorb Nu's knee-high 5D once it's started.

[Mike Z]

From frame data: 6F-16F high/mid guard point (not invin), extendable for as long as it goes while you hold the button. Also, it will guard any projectile, including Nu's low wheel, all of Nu's D's, etc.

[Nobus3r1]

I remember someone a few days ago mentioning a frustrating match again Litchi wherein the Litchi player got a slight life edge and then spent the rest of the round running away. The more I think about it this seems like a very valid strategy for Litchi, Noel, Bang and Tao against Tager (Rachel should probably be on that list too except she doesn't really need help with the matchup ). I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

[Astaroth136]

I've only fought a hand-full of people who have tried that, but my solution is Shot Just charge that Shot while they're running. Then, shoot it while they are falling from a jump. Even if they block it, they're now magnetized. Now they have to be cautious in the air. When they aren't magnetized, you can try creating a "moving wall" with j.D. You might intercept their airdashes with it if you predict correctly. Arakune running away is by far the most annoying in my opinion...

[quixotegut]

Fuurinkazaan Bang with a life edge is by far the most annoying. I've never met an Ara that ran away, or needed to for that matter. Asta has the right idea though. Personally I try to predict air dashes so they land into an AC. s/j.C also helps knock them out of the sky and/or close the gap. If they run under you try to land a j.2C. But this all falls under the realm of highly punishable psychic crap. Just another reason why Tager's grabs shouldn't be techable.

[HZMN]

I say Bang(in FRKZ) is more annoying than Arakune when it comes to running away Last I checked, Bang isn't affected by Magnetism in FRKZ

[Drges]

I say Bang(in FRKZ) is more annoying than Arakune when it comes to running away

Last I checked, Bang isn't affected by Magnetism in FRKZ

Yeah, I ended up getting negative penalty against Bang because he kept running away

[Astaroth136]

I say Bang(in FRKZ) is more annoying than Arakune when it comes to running away

Last I checked, Bang isn't affected by Magnetism in FRKZ

I don't think I've ever realized that!

[fragile]

a question @ MikeZ How do you overcome that everyone after playing v tager for a while stop teching after/in your combos to avoid the dreadful 720? Even if I continue the combo with a black beat sign the extra damage is minor compared to the 720 they could've eat. In general, once people start to learn how to play vs Tager it's much harder to get those nice combacks. I like to think of Tager as a guy witha solution to everything an opponent can do to him but the solution is SPECIFIC for a single move/choice the opponent do while he can do numerous of things that will beat that option. For example, Tager vs Noel. After noel does her general rushdown and now she has been pushed back from tager she can do the following: 1) Shot Tager 2) run to Tager and poke with jabs 3) run to tager and poke with 5B 4) IAD him 5) run to tager and jump 6) jump at tager from her current position 7) do 5/6 with a double jump forward/neutral/backward 8) in her jump use her drive/super in case Tager does some anti-air while Tager have a solution to each of these options he cannot cover more then two of these options on the sampe choice (Except blocking which he will be resetted the the same situation). That's why Tager is so weak in this game IMO... the lack of universal solutions to certain stuff (Anti-airs, clumbsy movement, slow throws, blabla..)

[kensk]

even though his throws look slow on paper, they're seriously not that much different than guilty gear (universal 0 frame throws, potemkin had a 4f command grab). in this game, throws are 6 or 7 frames, and tagers slowest command grab is 11. dealing with precise, slow movement is a con of his character, but its been a con in any game with a grappler. the biggest thign that makes tager weak is he has a really hard time dealing with aerial opponents, and he just gets wrecked by zoning/clap loop.

[A.X.I.S.]

hmm i got a question as a fellow tager player. after nailing a 5D on a opponent hit or miss i follow up with a B sledge, now the question is whats the best follow up for a blocked B sledge? should i block? 2A? 5A? tager molest them?

[Project Sollsis]

If they block I like to do 2B 2C etc. just in case I can get the counter hit. If it hits I'll 2B 2C etc. if they're close/big enough or 6A 2C if not.