Leo Critique and Analysis

[Tsukahara]

Hey all, made this so we have somewhere to post video's and request analysis on our gameplay.

 

Guess I'll start this off with a few of mine from a local tournament a few weeks back.

I definitely was kinda shaky and dropping combos and hit confirms when I started, but started to pick it up later on.

I've already noticed some not good stuff i was doing, and starting practicing to fix it, but I'll wait to hear what you guys think.

Vs Ramlethal

Vs Venom

[Kikuichimonji]

Hey all, made this so we have somewhere to post video's and request analysis on our gameplay.

 

Guess I'll start this off with a few of mine from a local tournament a few weeks back.

I definitely was kinda shaky and dropping combos and hit confirms when I started, but started to pick it up later on.

I've already noticed some not good stuff i was doing, and starting practicing to fix it, but I'll wait to hear what you guys think.

Vs Ramlethal

Vs Venom

Vs Venom:

1. 0:25 Commentators talk about Leo's 5K beating Venom's 2S,but I've had mixed results with that. I really like jump forward j.K or f.S as round starters vs Venom. I basically accept that most of his starters will beat most of mine, but I don't want to run away and create space for him, so I usually take a risk and swing somehow or at least neutral jump over a f.S and work from there.
2. You recovered from f.S in time to block here, but I think you swung here anyway. Leo's 6P doesn't work unless you do it pretty early. You could probably have used Leo's f.S ~P guard point, but it's pretty hard to use on reaction to jumps.
3. 0:30 that j.D was not spaced to be safe. This throw he gets is a punish unless you cancel your recovery to Eisen Sturm.
4. 0:36 You react to his mixup with a fuzzy jump. I personally like to do H Eisen Sturm if they do loose air dash pressure like he did. Leo doesn't really get much out of chicken blocking because he can't uppercut afterwards, so usually I just go for a throw if I get the IB.
5. I just want to point out that FDing Venom's cl.S can really limit his options for Carcass Raid blockstrings.
6. 0:40 Good block on the TK Mad Struggle.
7. 0:47 I think you did the second rekka to get out of the corner? Regardless, reversal throw actually punishes Leo's second rekka in 1.1 unless you go for third rekka. I would have recommended backdash in this situation, or don't do the second rekka and go for a blockstring with 2P 5K > stuff.
8. 0:57 When you get 5H CH > whiff 236S, you usually recover in time to combo a dashing 5K cl.S (jc) > j.K (jc) > j.K j.H j.236H. Instead you just take the knockdown and go for meaty 6K.
9. 1:02 I really disagree with this decision to do three rekkas then RRC as pressure in this situation because Venom still had burst and Tension. Venom has really weak options against Leo hitting buttons after 1st Rekka. Or you could have done something like f.S > 6K > f.S frame trap. Venom could have just blocked your 3rd Rekka RRC then gone for a Dead Angle to start his own oki. Also, if you were going for 3rd Rekka RRC, you should almost always just immediately H Graviert Wurde (fireball) and work your oki off that. But the 2K 5D you did worked and you managed to make him burst.
10. 1:08 You manage to come down with a falling j.S and tag Venom with a full confirm, but I'd recommend using j.K instead of j.S for situations like that. Also, you go for meterless stance oki here, but because Venom has meter, I'd highly recommend H fireball YRC setups here just because it makes Dead Angles harder to use.
11. 1:12 You land the hit with the dash through bt.K but you go for a reset with bt.H. Normally that's an ok thing to do if you expect them to block the bt.K, but considering that you were already doing a bt.K and this player hasn't demonstrated his ability to react well to your mixup, I would have confirmed off the bt.K with bt.P bt.K and gone from there. If you were concerned about him bursting after a single hit, you can just do dash through straight into 632146S super, because it's as fast as bt.K and unblockable after the super flash. Or you could have done bt.K bt.P (confirm) > 632146H because if he bursted the super, he gets hit anyway.
12. You drop the combo off the bt.H > bt.S, maybe because you're baiting a burst he doesn't have? Hard for me to tell. You could have ended the round with 632146S. Also, there's that dead angle I was talking about.
13. 1:16 This is a weird situation after your fireball YRC. If you had done 236H here, you would have gone under the pool ball and made him FD the opposite way in the air. Just a little opportunity you missed.
14. 1:23 you manage to land a Dead Angle during Venom's pressure. I personally would either have FD'd here or gone for H Eisen Sturm RRC. Leo has a really hard time dealing with Venom's midrange projectiles when he can't get out his own fireball, though, so playing cautiously here is definitely best.
15. 1:22 I definitely prefer safe jump j.K oki to meaty 6K, partially because it's easier to punish stuff like reversal backdash. Your 6P clashes with Mad Struggle here. I don't think it can beat Mad Struggle from that range, maybe 2H would? The safest thing would be to wait for him to land then force him to block a f.S/5H.
16. 1:30 Good choice not to burst here.
17. 1:32 I definitely would not have uppercutted here. I would have just FD'd the pool ball, but you definitely needed to move before Venom could set up projectiles so the round was probably lost anyway.
18. 1:41 I can't believe you got away with that 236H, he was at prime Venom f.S/2S/2D poking distance.
19. 1:44 you drop the link off bt.H > bt.S rekkas. Also, at this screen distance, I would ALWAYS do bt.214S to put Venom in the corner. Leo's low air dash mixups in the corner are pretty strong, and people can't jump away from him as easily. Prioritize corner over a few points of damage when you can. Even if they burst your combo in the corner, you're just midscreen whereas if you do the full rekka series and get a pickup after, you're basically guaranteed to be pushed into the corner when they burst.
20. 1:46 You basically deserved to get hit out of that pressure reset off 2nd rekka. Venom's buttons are really fast for their range, so this sort of reset isn't that great unless you have meter to threaten 3rd rekka RRC or bt.D YRC stuff.
21. 1:48 Another time you fuzzy jump Venom's corner stuff. Leo really doesn't get much out of it unless you can turn it into an abare situation, and you basically force yourself to burst right after. It might sound risky to do H Eisen here, but this is a prime example of where the move is an excellent option.
22. 1:53 I agree with the idea of doing j.D YRC here to get in. But I would have combo'd into either H Eisen Sturm or just into 2D here to preserve your superior screen positioning. You go for another reset off second rekka and Venom responds correctly by throwing you out of it.
23. 2:16 I don't agree with the 236H here again. Venom doesn't have to read this option to beat it; all of his normal grounded options will just smack you out of it.
24. 2:19 Your bt.P anti-air clashes and you get 5H instead of bt.H, but bt.P > bt.H only combos on CH. At lower heights, bt.PSH is a very reliable and safe knockdown anti-air combo. You would have gotten cl.S instead of 5H and you would have made him block instead of getting thrown.
25. 2:27 FD when chip would kill you, etc.
26. 3:01 Jump backwards > air dash fowards is a pretty common strategy because it allows you space to react to your opponent's starting option as well as giving you the chance to be aggressive. You've gotta anticipate those types of movements from characters that can snowball heavily off hits, like Millia, Venom, and Elphelt. H Fireball would have tagged him here and been much safer. S fireball when the opponent is currently airborne is pretty risky. It's a great move against grounded Venom, though.
27. 3:03 after Venom gets hit by your burst, he goes in with another air dash. I feel like you probably aren't very strong about anti-airing these higher-up air dashes. j.K is a good option to stop this shit without having to reaction 6P, but reaction 6P is still the best and most rewarding/safe option.
28. 3:07 Third time's a charm and you land a 6P. On CH, 6P combos to 6H and you can do dashing 5K cl.S (jc) j.K (jc) j.K j.H j.236H. If you'd rather not take that chance, on air dashes in, 6P cl.S combos pretty well on opponents with forward velocity and you can follow with (jc) j.K (jc) j.K j.H j.236H. You lose a good deal of damage on your combos by only using j.S(1) instead of j.K. j.K leads to more damage than j.S(1) or even both hits of j.S, and the only time you should use j.S in these combos is when j.K is too slow or the opponent is too high for j.K to combo. For example, against Faust, often I do 6P cl.S j.S(1) (jc) j.K j.H j.236H just because the first j.K can whiff if he's too high from doing Fausty things.
29. 3:10 Venom demonstrates that he can react to the bt.H after bt.K and isn't having any of that shit. At ranges where you can only do bt.H after bt.K, consider doing S fireball YRC, bt.214S to catch buttons for a CH combo, or dashing up to do bt.K again. Many Leos just go for too many max-range bt.H's because it's safe and a good scrub-busting technique because it leads to so much corner damage, but better opponents will just read your options and block your no-mixup mixup.
30. 3:17 Good read on the H Eisen.
31. 3:22 You land 5K cl.S 5H, but you should have gone for a more damaging confirm because you could have recognized he was crouching. I would have done 5K cl.S 6K 5P 5K cl.S 5H rekkas. It's moot because he bursted, but it shows that you're not looking for these types of conversions, which are a huge part of what make Leo threatening.
32. 3:23 The next ten seconds are an example of how impossible it is to get next to Venom without using your H fireball., culminating with you attempting the world's most yolo uppercut Don't try to run at full screen Venom in general, just throw a H fireball and follow it. He can absorb it with a QV, but you can just barely tag him out of that hitbox.
33. 3:35 Venom foolishly tries to follow you in the air and pays the price with being knocked down in the corner. Good choice for the 22 cancel > throw.
34. 3:38 I would definitely have applied some sort of meaty here, either bt.K or bt.P (bt.P because it leads to more damage if they mash and you can follow it with a second-hit low). Venom gets out of the corner by jumping and coming down with a button, and now you're in Venom hell again.
35. 3:54 You could have killed Venom with an OTG dashing 2S after the third rekka. You can't land anything after the OTG, though.
36. 4:10 By now I've noticed that one of Venom's adaptations in this set is that he is just jump around all over the place at half screen. You haven't really given him a reason to stop. 
37. 4:12 I think you anticipated him teching forward out of the 5S and punishing you for the 5H, which is why you went for the P guard point? You could have converted off CH f.S AA into 6H > 236H for a full combo, but I rarely make that confirm myself.
38. 4:14 As a Leo player, you have to be extremely careful about your jumping chains to make sure you have enough time to combo when you land. Off that j.K, you could have converted into a full combo if you had used j.H instead of j.S. But he mashes after the j.S and you get the combo anyway.
39. 4:17 You've lost a lot going for these second rekka mixups. He's been challenging them correctly. At least you don't burst the throw combo.
40. 4:24 Yayyy you landed a H Eisen Sturm! if you had RRC'd that second hit (you whiffed the first) then you could have converted with something like whiff j.D, 6H 236H (crossup air hit) bt.S 214S 5K cl.S j.K j.236H. At the very least, you would have traded your meter for his burst and getting out of the corner, and you would have made your flash kick safe.
41. 4:27 When you go for non-meaty H fireball setups like this, you should anticipate that they'll attempt to jump out. You can stop them with immediate f.S after the YRC or running j.S just to make them block and bring them down to the ground with j.S j.P chains. Your j.K here whiffs unfortunately but you still manage to get him blocking.
42. 4:30 I like that you went for the S Fireball YRC stuff and converted when he tried to throw an anticipated Leo 6H. Good presence of mind here by Venom not to immediately burst, because I would have been baiting the shit out of that lol.
43. 5:15 You have been trying to hit him with bt.KH a lot, and he has been blocking it 85% of the time. You need to mix up your pressure more here, either with bt.K > bt.K or more staggered strings, like bt.K > dash bt.K or even bt.K > 236H.
44. 5:24 I feel like you make a tactical error here when you run out in front of your H fireball YRC. You should use it as a shield in case he tries to chuck balls or normals at you. If you get hit, the fireball goes away, so you need to make sure your investment in the YRC doesn't get wasted. You land a good stagger 2K > 2D, though.
45. 5:33 Another bt.KH, another combo you give up in order to go for an obvious low-high string.
46. 5:38 If you're going to use a H fireball YRC to convert into a backturned mixup, do a raw 5[H] instead of the 5K. Here you're basically just spending meter to put yourself in a situation where you're -3 and the opponent could have punished you with a throw after 5[H].
47. You manage to close out the round with a double bt.KH string, proving that you CAN in fact win a game of Rock Paper Scissors by throwing rock 17 times in a row.
48. 5:53 I would have uppercutted the shit out of that Mad Struggle. Basically I let Venom do whatever he wants on the ground on my wakeup unless it's Mad Struggle. Most do it because it baits throw and is therefore "safe," but it's slow enough to punish on reaction even when TK'd.
49. 6:00 You can add a bit of damage to your combo off CH 6K by doing 5K 6P cl.S 5H before rekkas.
50. 6:04 He gets hit by both bt.K's. See how he's just anticipating overheads at this point and forcing you to go low? I would push this point until he adapts again.
51. 6:07 I really don't like the bt.KSH confirms because they give up a lot of mixup options. bt.KPK is much more successful in my experience and you aren't pushed out as far on block. Also, after bt.H at midrange, look into just doing slightly delayed 632146S to make him block when you have meter advantage like this. Either he gets hit and you win, or he blocks and you're +8 and get to do frontfacing pressure. Or you can do immedate S fireball YRC for a low air dash mixup, it's a really strong option after blocked bt.H.
52. 6:14 Good choice on the super followup to the bt.H. At that range, if he had bursted, it would have whiffed and you could punish anyway. If you had gone for a RRC combo, you would have giving him opportunities to burst. You could have combo'd a running 236H after the super for more damage, though.
53. 6:17 I like the decision to fireball YRC here.
54. 7:01 Blocked bt.K bt.H
55. 7:08 I might have bursted here too. Remember to vary the hit of cl.S that you burst, it makes it incredibly hard for Venom to bait because he can't combo off the early hits as well.
56. 7:36 I feel like you're going for too much 5H rekkas at this point. You could actually get away with 6H here, or done IAD j.K off the f.S. Mix up your pressure more.
57. 8:08 Attempted reset punished again
58. 8:15 I don't see the point of doing DAA instead of H Eisen RRC here, but whatever.
59. 8:22 Venom's anti-air combos in Xrd are total ass. He can't get anything off 6P without CH or RRC at that range, and even if he gets CH, he only gets 6H. So most Venoms auto-pilot 6P 6H and hope it CH's. You can tech forward and tag him if he tries that without the CH, it's very useful.
60. 8:27 and 9:30 He really has your number on these bursts lol. Venom REALLY sucks at punishing bursts on block though. All he gets is <100 damage and a knockdown.
61. 9:35 Another bt.K bt.H that doesn't work out.
62. 9:50 Good use of running S fireball to clear his balls, but S fireball just can't compete with his volume at some point. If you had done a H fireball after the second S fireball, you would have been in a great position.
63. 10:15 When you've got a guaranteed CH 5H like that where he whiffs the sweep, you can do 5H 6H > rekkas at least. You probably could have landed 5H 6H 5P 5K cl.S f.S 5H rekkas even.
64. 10:17 bt.K bt.H, but he swings after bt.H and you tag him with bt.S.
65. 10:25 You could have converted on this air dash with j.K j.H.
66. 10:31 Good conversion with the corner 3rd Rekka > 6[H] bt.S 214S, but you are losing a lot of damage by using j.S instead of j.K in your air combos. Also, cl.S is faster than 5K, so I would have done 6[H] bt.S 214S cl.S (jc) j.K (jc) j.K j.236H.
67. 11:00 I would have done safe jump stuff after the DAA.
68. 11:12 While I'm not opposed to you trying 2nd rekka pressure resets in the corner, you really need to explore hitting buttons after 1st rekka. It's MUCH harder for most characters to deal with than hitting buttons after 2nd rekka, and if they do find an option that beats your followup 2P, you can just do 2nd Rekka and tag them.
69. 11:39 Good air throw!
70. 11:48 bt.KK works again.
71. 13:45 On Venom, after bt.D, you can land 236H > bt.PSH for more damage and corner positioning while maintaining your backstance.
72. 13:47 I would probably have RRC'd that clean hit with bt.S rekkas RRC 6H dash 5K cl.S (jc) j.K (jc) j.K j.H j.236H. At least force him to burst.
73. 13:50 Against Venom, if you want to meaty him with backturned stuff after 3rd rekka, you have to do immediate whiff 236H into immediate bt.K. His fast wakeup makes it so that you can't delay at all, or he can jump/throw you.
74. 13:57 Good read on the RRC, but if you were reacting you could have done the 5H > P guard point and combo'd with 6H dash 5K cl.S (jc) j.K (jc) j.K j.H j.236H. If you were anticipating, though, that's fair. Also, if you would have delayed your S, you would have gotten cl.S. You can actually run before the 5K on a burst bait to punish. Leo can even cl.S 6P cl.S (jump install sjc) j.K j.S(2) (jc) j.K j.H j.236H for about 200 damage on a burst bait. From that farther range you have to substitute 5K for the first cl.S, so the damage increase is only 20 damage from  5K cl.S (jc) j.K (jc) j.K j.H j.236H.
75. 14:28 He killed himself by IB'ing the first rekka when you had meter for RRC, which is pretty common. GJ on converting to the kill.
76. 15:02 Failed bt.K bt.H
77. 18:32 Good burst bait
78. 19:21 he isn't letting you do second rekka pressure. You're being too aggressive with your pressure without layering it with all of your options, which makes it easy for him to contest you.
79. 19:37 Punish stuff like Double Head Morbid with 5K cl.S 5H because 5K lets you land the cl.S instead of f.S.
80. 19:55 You could have gotten a large crouch confirm and taken the round clean with that combo off 5K.
81. 20:14 Use 5K to punish Venom's DAA.
82. 20:33 failed bt.K bt.H

Good job taking your local! I'd like to play you sometime.

[Tsukahara]

Wow! Thanks for the really in depth feedback.

I won't respond to everything because it's so much, but I'll note the main things I was thinking during the matchup.

Even if I lose space, I usually choose to backdash, block, or try 2d round start against venom. I' don't like round start jump personally, just because I don't like the pretty big risk behind it. I'd rather hang back and build resources before going in, even if it costs me some life in chip damage usually.

I definitely noticed similar stuff,  that I do bt.K bt.H waaaayyy too much in this set, as well as that I wasn't getting optimal air damage using j.s out of habit.

 

Matches prior to this in weekly casuals felt like he was respecting the 2nd rekka too much, so I kept trying to go for it out of habit and didn't adapt. I didn't really stop to think about it until I took a minute during the bracket reset, but I was pretty confident after the reset that he was over committing to mashing against level 2 rekka. I was right and just did 3 rekka's in pressure a few times to kill him for mashing.

I know I should be using 5k 6p c.s more, but I feel like i mess up the spacing in casuals all the time, so I kinda just didn't want to chance messing it up in tournament.

I didn't actually realize the crouching/CH confirms you mentioned worked, guess I'll grind them in too!

I feel like I'm also suuuuuper awful with Leo guard points. I'm pretty sure almost every time I've used them I've been blown up for it, So I tend to just RC on reaction to bursts so I can get the punish instead.

 

Thanks again for the critique! I'll be sure to start grinding these into my play over the next few weeks before Canada Cup.

 

 

[DeathNapalmx]

Hey all, made this so we have somewhere to post video's and request analysis on our gameplay.

 

Guess I'll start this off with a few of mine from a local tournament a few weeks back.

I definitely was kinda shaky and dropping combos and hit confirms when I started, but started to pick it up later on.

I've already noticed some not good stuff i was doing, and starting practicing to fix it, but I'll wait to hear what you guys think.

Vs Ramlethal

Vs Venom

 

vs Ramlethal 

0:15 - Ramlethal's f.S is a really strong option in this MU at round start because Leo doesn't really have an answer for it at that range. I personally would've done IB > 4H here for an option select. If she cancels into 623P, you get back throw. If she cancels into 6S/H, you get CH 5H > rekkas. The only thing this loses to is 214P. 

0:20 - I find using 236H to close the distance at full screen more reliable than approaching from the air because of things like this. 214P and 6H are really good at stopping Leo's air momentum. Here you get YRC airthrown. If you delayed 236H she would have at least had to block. 

0:32 - Good DP. 

0:37 - Try not to get in the habit of autopiloting your bt. pressure to the point that your doing thing like this too often. You could've confirmed the second bt.K into bt.S  > Rekkas or even bt.S > bt.H. Instead, you ended up giving her the opportunity to backdash out and f.S you for free.  

0:44 - You would've gotten blown back by burst anyway, but if you know you're not close enough to get c.S after a 5K try confirming f.S > 2D  You were getting a bit close to the corner as well so it would have allowed you to continue pressuring him more effectively. 

1:03 - You probably could've punished this whiffed command grab harder with a 5K combo and still get corner pressure but that was still a good response. 

1:06 - Now, why did you backdash twice here? If you were afraid of reversal super you could've just bt.D > PRC, OTG bt.K, or went back in once you saw that he was respecting stance. You gave up considerable offensive advantage here and it ultimately ended up costing you the round. 

1:11 - This time you even get a CH bt.K and still cancel into bt.H.

1:59 - You recognized that you were putting yourself into the corner with followup 236H and attempted to hard read for the burst but you ended up delaying it too late and eating a CH combo into the corner anyway. You had 50 tension here so you could've tried to followup up 214S and RC on reaction to the burst if he did it. Even so, eating a blue burst into the corner would've been preferable to eating a CH combo into the corner. 

2:21 - That was pretty good, doing followup 236H to make the DA whiff not sure if you did this on purpose but you managed to avoid getting blown back to neutral. 

2:28 - He didn't have any meter to BS or reversal super so his only option here was to block mixup, yet you tried to crossup dash and got thrown out. You should try to be wary of your opponents defensive options on wakeup and respond accordingly. 

2:30 - Risky things like this really don't work when she does moves like 6S that recover fast enough to block at that distance. It would've been probably better to wait and see what happened after blocking 6S and then FD or DA rather than do a punishable reversal super from that range. 

3:12 - Good doing bt.K > 66 > bt.K here.

3:14 - It was a fortunate thing that the pushback from bt.H allowed the burst to whiff, but you could've taken advantage of that at that range by doing bt.214S and getting him closer to the corner as well. 

3:22 - I find that Ramlethals really love to stay in the air  and summon swords below in situations like this especially vs Leo. Backdashing or super jumping to meet her in the air might've been better here. It's a habit I need to do more in this MU as well. 

3:36 - Very nice air throw. 

3:42 - It seems you're already getting the hang of changing up your pressure by this point since you manage to open him up again. Very nice.

4:44 - j.D is always pretty risky as a jump in/mobility tool especially if  you don't have meter to YRC it. It's good you manage to block here but it could've turned out much worse. 

5:34 - doing reversal [2]8H like this is never a good idea at this distance. He didn't even have to bait it to hit you with a CH 5D combo into the corner. 

6:08 - Now here you're starting to get back into the habit of autopiloting bt.K > bt.H again, and you're giving up considerable damage here because of it. 

6:12 - Fortunately, you manage to open him up anyway with another bt.H confirm into 632146S which was good. 

6:46 - He's starting to use FD more in this round as an effective option against your blockstrings, and you end up eating a CH f.S confirm for whiffing c.S. When your opponent does this you can start to get away with things like 5K, 5K, 5K or  5P, 5K, 66, 5P 5K 5H for frame traps. You won't be pushed back as much and they are in more blockstun due to FD, so they have to respect it or eat a CH.

7:07 - He was almost certain to burst here since he just whiffed a 236K, was below 20%, and down a round. I probably would've tried to 5K > 4 here in case he bursted. If he didn't he still loses if he eats one more combo.

7:13 - Very, VERY, unfortunate. This was a very good 6P in response to the air dash but you could've easily done dj.K > dj.H > dj.236H instead of going into a whiffed j.H > j.236H. He was low enough to die before even that. 

7:50 - I assume you were trying to reversal throw here. It could've been bad it you ate that CH H sword but you manage to block it. It might've been safer to do 6PH for a throw OS. Since he jumped 6P would've come out and you would've recovered much faster. 

7:52 - You almost lose the combo again. You could've done j.S(2) > dj.S(1) > dj.236H and it wouldn't have black beated. Fortunately, he doesn't tech this time. 

8:15 - He was sure to die from anything after 6H. I would've done 6[H] > bt.D to bait the burst or just done a 66 > c.S.

9:31 - There you go.

9:38 - Remember you can always BS back if you have the meter. you had enough so you could've tried to crouching BS her 2D to regain your momentum without losing your burst. 

10:00 - He's been respecting bt.D this entire set so I wouldn't have expected him to start mashing against stance now. Even if he did, he would've lost to meaty bt.K.

10:11 - Not sure why you drop the bt.S confirm here. It just gives him another chance to come back. 

10:16 - bt.K > bt.H again but it actually gets you the win this time. And you had 50 tension so why not? lol

Hopefully this was helpful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[C4IQ]

Ill post up a regular match up I have against a sin from our weekly in the uk.

I starting to think sin is leo worse match up on paper. followed by Venom, Axl, Pot and bedman. Iam starved of the Ram exsperince so can't comment much on that.

https://youtu.be/rbwYBvtQRsE

I've told all the players the gaps and flaw in leo gameplay and basiclly to play the mu.

Sin can
-stay out of 5h range and be a threat.
-go undermost leo normals with elk
-Do 70% damage on reaction/anticipation to and leo projectile
-Sins dp works very well at eterupring the gap in leos string
-at most points sin eating can not be punished by leo on reaction. If you anticipate it you might be able to do 2nd rekka but if the sin yrc leo will get hit.
-sin backdash makes it impossible to keep within the range leo need and is great for making leo with chains in his blockstring.

There are other things which I'll go into more detail in the leo Google.doc at some point.

What do you guys think?

[Kikuichimonji]

Ill post up a regular match up I have against a sin from our weekly in the uk.

I starting to think sin is leo worse match up on paper. followed by Venom, Axl, Pot and bedman. Iam starved of the Ram exsperince so can't comment much on that.

https://youtu.be/rbwYBvtQRsE

I've told all the players the gaps and flaw in leo gameplay and basiclly to play the mu.

Sin can
-stay out of 5h range and be a threat.
-go undermost leo normals with elk
-Do 70% damage on reaction/anticipation to and leo projectile
-Sins dp works very well at eterupring the gap in leos string
-at most points sin eating can not be punished by leo on reaction. If you anticipate it you might be able to do 2nd rekka but if the sin yrc leo will get hit.
-sin backdash makes it impossible to keep within the range leo need and is great for making leo with chains in his blockstring.

There are other things which I'll go into more detail in the leo Google.doc at some point.

What do you guys think?

It's a bad matchup but I don't think it's worse than 4-6, at least at the level I'm playing at. I've gone even or better against every Sin I've played in an extended set, including well known players.

Throwing an H fireball from max full screen seems to be a great way to approach the neutral. Bull bash doesn't reach that far, although I guess I could get hit by running Bull Bash.

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[TheDarkHer0]

Well yeah but what can you do VS Sin when he's in the air ? It's not like we have a good Anti Air or we can fight sin Air to Air

And other thing that has been give me some nightmares, when we are in the corner what can we do besides get beaked 24/7 until we are full screen from him and he eats YRC ? Like we don't have mobility to run in and keep blocking, our air option are kinda slow and I rly feel lost here :/ 

[Kikuichimonji]

Leo's anti airs are good.

Leo 6P, 2H, and bt.P can anti air anything Sin does. Vulture Seize can be used to beat these but 6P can still win with proper positioning. At the very least, H Eisen and bt.D can catch it, or I believe you can situationally IB and punish.

Full screen H fireball if he's just throwing Driver from full screen, it forces a response from him.

You will have to respect Beak Driver a bunch, but making Sin eat at neutral will force openings.

Sin doesn't have serious mixup outside of instant j.H overhead and hit/throw stuff. Use a ton of IB - if you IB Elk Hunt he's -2 so he has to spend a ton of calories to make him safer, or he has to block. If you stop him from doing Leap he has to work really hard to do anything besides make you take a bit of chip.

I recently played Deklined in 3 different sets in a small Kansas City tournament so I'm pretty confident my matchup analysis is pretty strong.

The hardest part of the matchup is that you absolutely have to take an eventual risk, like countering Hawk Baker, and that is terrifying but if it works you're golden.

Also if Sin ever gets to very low calories, he's a pretty terrible character until he eats.

[TheDarkHer0]

If you were able to here is a little match VS a sin that is giving me some toubles, while this is not rly a good level (because I think we both played awfull in this set) I think what happened here is basicly what happens every match : 

 

[DeathNapalmx]

21 hours ago, TheDarkHer0 said:

If you were able to here is a little match VS a sin that is giving me some toubles, while this is not rly a good level (because I think we both played awfull in this set) I think what happened here is basicly what happens every match : 

 

vs Sin

52:10 - While it was definitely a good decision not to press a button here (Sin f.S will either trade with or beat clean any normal you do at round start),  IADing backwards  probably wasn't the best way to avoid getting hit. Sin/Leo is a MU where you want to be a lot more patient and less aggressive as usual, but at the same time if you know you have the opportunity to get in, you really need to capitalize on it. At round start, if you know that he's going to f.S/2S the best thing you can do is jump forward j.K. If he didn't get hit by j.K into j.H > 5K > f.S > 2D knockdown, he would've at least had to block. 

52:25 - It's good that you FD'd here in time after the IAD to block 236H. Although, it's for reasons like this that it's never a good idea to IAD at neutral from full screen, when Sin 90% of the time can just 236H on reaction and reset the situation. If you think you want to take a risk against Beak Driver you should probably consider a dashing jump when at full screen or super jump IAD if closer. 

52:35 - You finally managed to clip him with CH crossup 236H which you were able to fully confirm but got mashed out the second time. Since you were near the corner, bt.S > bt.H > bt.S > bt.214S here would have put him into the corner and probably would have done around the same damage. After you knocked him down and 236H'd back in bt.K > bt.K would've been better stagger pressure for the situation here. Since you crossed him up and he 2P'd out you had your back to the corner again. 

52:42 - Nice blitz. You definitely want to do this against any Sin who is using 214S predictably in their pressure. 

52:46 - I assume this was a tick throw attempt. He read it anyway, but it would have been safer to try after 2S ( -1 vs +4). 

52:52 - This was a good read from the Sin player, since he just got blitzed. You only had 25%, so it would've been your only option here if you tried to do it again. You should take your and Sin's meter into account when going for things like this.  

53:07 - H ES usually works against 214S at close range, but since you were FDing it pushed him out far enough to whiff. Remember that 214S is usually burst/reversal safe at most ranges and usually a better idea to just block since it's reactable more often than not. 

53:24 - Good FD breaking here to safely approach. You get hit low though due to 236K. Many Sin players cancel pokes/ends pressure with 236K since it's relatively gapless and +1 on block, however, if IB'd it leaves him at -2 and follow ups can be punished with 2P unless it's cancelled into something else. He was doing that a lot here so it would've been better to just block low and attempt IB if possible.  

53:33 - You attempt to whiff punish the 236H with and airdash into j.K but get 6P'd. The recovery is unfortunately another one of the things about Beak Driver that Leo can't really take advantage of normally. I find that air dashing with raw YRC helps to prevent getting immediately AA'd due to the slowdown. 

53:46 - Very good whiff punish on the 2H the second time. You want to make sure that you punish things like this when you get the opportunity as you won't get it often. 

53:48 - Now here you drop second rekka for a reset attempt when you had guaranteed damage into the corner. You had very low life and were down a round vs Sin so you needed to take whatever damage you could get. With the meter you had, if you had continued the confirm off of the CH 5H you could've done at least 40 - 50% and kept him into the corner, but this ultimately cost you the game. 

54:41 - Very good H ES to beat the disrespect f.S stagger pressure here. At this range, you may have gotten more damage off a IAD over the f.S with a j.K confirm but it's good enough that you got a knockdown. 

54:50 - At this specific height/angle I'm not entirely certain it would've worked but you usually can combo j.D < j.236H if it hits. 

55:02 - Another situation where he baited the blitz. He picked up on that relatively quickly so I wouldn't have attempted it again after this. 

55:11 - Good punish. You were at an ideal range to risk 236H here. Usually, the closer you are to Sin when he eats, the better the odds.

55:14 - You're dropping the damage you've earned. So far in this set he's always tried to mash/reversal/burst out and so far always been successful. 

55:25 - Good DP. 

55:27 - He reversal backdashes out of your oki. I've noticed that you haven't used H GW projectile YRC in your pressure at all. It costs 25% tension but is very safe/effective against characters with DP/good backdashes like Sin.  

55:40 - Very good callout. You may have actually killed him here if you RC'd into 6[H] > bt.S > bt.214S. Regardless, you take the round. 

56:14 - You get quite a few random hits in but did not confirm any here, including another CH 5H. 5[H] > bt.S into rekkas is a really good basic confirm off of CH 5H that does decent damage. You definitely want to work on confirming off of hits like this. 

56:16 - Another dropped confirm with bt.H.

57:04 - Another mash out. 

57:30 - j.D is a very situational, very risky normal to use to get in. Because things like this can happen, it's never a good idea to use it at this height too often against Sin unless you have meter to YRC it. 

57:41 - Very nice. You complete the combo and use the projectile YRC oki. Now he HAS to block. 

57:50 - Risky, but very good callout here. 

58:17 - Unfortunately there wasn't much you could do up to this point. He had a significant life and tension advantage over you and was on point with punishing your whiffed normals. Back at around 58:00 you could have attempted to punish the 214S with bt.632146S and it would have guaranteed death but past that there wasn't much at your disposal. Once you started finishing your combos and started using safer pressure, he was forced to use his meter to FD and guess what you were going to do. It will definitely help your game against Sin if you work on that.