[BBCF] Observable Mu Changes

[ThatOneTrashcan]

I had seen some of the Mu changes from CPE to CF. I hope we can keep the discussion civil and if you notice anything I missed, let me know
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-PzZClzZV-pbM96F_mt2EfSve5HglcUhru5NjRL6f8s/edit?usp=docslist_api

[bakahyl]

Some corrections

5B->5C->6C links midscreen; No counter, on standing opponents     >   correct that to 5c>6c, because 5b>5c has worked in every version and that is not something new

Tokihana    >    Ame no Habakiri or Habakiri

Hobaya  >  Ame no Habaya or Habaya

6B has ground bounce like CS    >    6b has never had a ground bounce before, it did however had a bounce on an aerial opponent. Also it has enough bounce that you can combo

2C is still not jump cancelable outside 2C->2D    >    incorrect. 2c can be jump cancelled (likely on hit, not on block like pre bbcpe ) without needing a stein cancel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPViovh2YPw&t=13m54s

3C no longer links to j.2C > It never worked besides from counter hit 3c, so scrap that from the nerfs.

 

Lasers have farther reach than CPE? > They seem to have the exact same range as cpe

 

Totsuka is faster? >  looks the same for me

 

Steins are still slow and  j.2C still has no hard knockdown > you might want to scrap that as nerfs because those are not bbcf nerfs but the old bbcpe nerfs.

 

Hobaya has a shallower arc > imo that is not much of a nerf with it having likely less recovery, because it brings back habaya to almost bbcse status

 

Lost Tokihana > well in a way it's a nerf but with it's heavily nerfed version from bbcpe it's not much of a loss (see below why)

 

Loss of OD Tokihana loops  > The loss is not much of a loss because Habakiri's proration has worsened in bbcpe. Because in BBCP 1.0 and 1.1, each charged habakiri would prorate once but in the latest version each of the 3 hits would prorate seperately, meaning that her OD habakiri combos deal amazing low damage

 

Decreased midscreen combo ability  >   too early to say this. because with the option of getting a midscreen combo from anything from 6b (with the new bounce). Plus the combos in this game are in generally shorter (for every character) than the previous versions

 

2B->5B->5C->6C->Ikutachi could extend the air throw off 6C >   scrap that because 6c has lost it's midscreen wallbounce, meaning that 6c>ikutachi won't work unless in the corner

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lelouch84]

6C losing its midscreen wallbounce is really rough. Why does ArcSys hate Mu so much? At least her set play looks strong. I will be looking to see how her midscreen combo potential actually unfolds. I've only been able to find one clip of her from the loktests. Man I miss CP1.0. Those were the days.

[DaiAndOh]

That may not be necessary since I believe 6B launches on ground hit...unfortunately this character is rare and I haven't seen footage of that.

[bakahyl]

Correct she now should have new midscreen combos with 5b/6a/5c>6b

Losing 6c's midscreen bounce makes Ikutachi now mostly useless , because apparently it's now a corner combo extender

 

[pochp]

I believe you can still use ikutachi after 2c for sideswap routes, which you can also in the current version, and it makes a lot more sense for it to be used this way. Far from useless.

To give you an idea concerning midscreen combos, here's stuff from jbbs :
2B〉5B〉6B〉2D〉2C〉2D〉jcJC〉JB〉jcJB〉JC〉J2C〉laser hit 〉5C〉2C〉air ender (so like j.c j.2c or whatever, maybe superjump for something more damaging?)
2901 if its a 2b starter, 3011 if its 6b

Corner-wise, apparently 6b(1) air hit 5d 3c sod 2b 6a 4d 5c 2c j.c j.2c did 3.9k. Idk if it was in active flow or not, but that doesn't look really optimal, so our damage is probably bigger than last version in this situation. Certainly greater overall, and less reliance on sideswap combos for decent damage, so better corner carry overall.

more combos :
corner : 6B＞6C＞max sod charge ＞5C＞6C max SoD charge ＞5C＞2C＞JcJBJC＞JcJBJCJ2C＞昇龍コマンドのやつで3700
corner : 2B>5C>6C>5D>5C>SoD>microdash3C(5Dhit)>5D>5C>2C>jcJC>delayJ2C(5Dhit)>6A>6B>2C>4D>JC>J2C
midscreen OD : 6BOD〉6D〉5C〉2C〉laser hit 〉JC〉J2C〉laser hit 〉ikutachi 〉omohikane 4200 approx

There's another few notes, apparently SoD CH midscreen you can pick up with like dash 6a or 5c? New move is apparently really amazing, stays out even if you block, and much easier to get a combo from.

Anyway, I'll wait until I can see for myself, maybe in a few days when people start figuring out better combo routes, but this character is looking much better.

[XD23]

http://www.twitch.tv/fantasistaokayama/v/26483776?t=13h27m32s

Some good video footage of her (aside from potato quality) at around the 13:27:32 minute mark for about two hours and 20 something minutes. Most of it is Mu. From general observations, the opponent and Mu has to keep an eye out on the direction the steins are pointing when Tokotachi activates, as that's generally the direction they fly towards. Her 6B ground bounce appears to be that of a boon for more stable comboability midscreen than anything else, and relies less on catching opponents in crouching state. I think during a fight, I saw her from midscreen towards corner use 5C into 6C wallstick, then Ikutachi, whiff, and land and still catch the opponent for a combo. 

Over all, she looks much more stable this time around in conjunction to the gameplan they initially wanted for her from CPEX, though at times I thought she had to calm the hell down. XD
 

[C0R]

Suppose I should have posted this here first but oh well.

 

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s454/sh/651c0116-f29f-4531-9b88-60c8c075bd49/423c5314bbbd2535241ba17c74cb68df

[Lelouch84]

I'm glad to see that she's looking stronger than in CPEX. I think I'll be able to main her, but I might end up maining Nine. I guess we'll have to see how things play out.

[bakahyl]

Well the best buff for me is that her lasers has a sci-fi laser sfx (similar or the same as Nu's swords)

[Devdan]

I don't feel great about the new move. I miss raw damage qcb d. I miss breaking guard primers. Also, her new colors are really bad, and the returning colors are redundant (white, white, white, dizzy). Playing Mu has bummed me out since CP, and I was hoping CF could fix that. Oh well.

[edit] woops, posted in wrong thread.

[Lelouch84]

What was wrong with CP? CP was Mu's best game. I still think she's gonna be better than in CPE. And correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like she has pretty decent damage this game. Plus her new move gives her much needed help with her set play.

[bakahyl]

3 hours ago, Lelouch84 said:

What was wrong with CP? CP was Mu's best game. I still think she's gonna be better than in CPE. And correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like she has pretty decent damage this game. Plus her new move gives her much needed help with her set play.

CP 1.0 Mu was decent and more fun to play but not nearly as strong as her cs2 and cse versions

1.1 was mostly the same as 1.0 except for minor nerfs but cpe was easily one of her weakest versions (only her cs1 version might be weaker than her cpe version)

[C0R]

Drones are like the best thing she's ever had ever in terms of specials.

[Lelouch84]

Are drones from past games?

[Devdan]

Fun is subjective. I had fun with CT Carl, then they changed him. I had fun with CS1&2 Mu (barely played CSEX), and they changed her. I didn't get into X'rd as much as I'd hoped, everyone basically got left alone. Why do you hate me, ArcSys? :(

[C0R]

25 minutes ago, Lelouch84 said:

Are drones from past games?

No they're what I'm calling the new 214d, admittedly they prob aren't as good as CS2 bombs, but those got nerfed very, very, very hard as a result of their strength, and there are better in neutral!

[Lelouch84]

17 minutes ago, Devdan said:

Fun is subjective. I had fun with CT Carl, then they changed him. I had fun with CS1&2 Mu (barely played CSEX), and they changed her. I didn't get into X'rd as much as I'd hoped, everyone basically got left alone. Why do you hate me, ArcSys? :(

I feel your pain dude. ArcSys likes to ruin my fun. 

I love the drones then. They give Mu crazy pressure and neutral options. I'm sure she'll be nerfed into the ground soon.

[KonannFriends]

From what I have seen mu looks really strong.

At first look people would cringe at the no wallbounce on 6c but it looked like it was working fine. Whoever the player was, was using 5c 6c charged Stein iad jc for OKi.

And maybe I'm just unfamiliar but jc and charged steins seemed like the had incredible amount of untech time on counter hit. Im thinking maybe charged steins are level 3 but I think it still level 2 because o ones mentioned it.

Also I know in cpex whenever I had the chance to end the corner combo with SoD I did so I had more time to setup into 4d 5d iad jb etc. But since no smp we can probably end all corner combos with it.

Also 5b is a real button now since it's powerful starter and doesn't need crouch confirm for full combo. New 6b is so nice.

2c jump cancelableis nice for less obvious iad tactics.

Drones look nice. Awesome neutral tool. Call outs. Pressure resets.

Cant believe no ones in Socal plays her. Disgusts me. 

My final thoughts is that neutral has gotten be risk/ reward. Setplay will get developed. Drones will help in previous difficult MU's in ex ( Bang, Izayoi,Hazama?)ex

Sorry for long post

[bakahyl]

Well the bad thing is that the drones disappear when Mu is hit, unlike Totsuka. However Totsuka has more startup and recovery

[DaiAndOh]

So it's certain that the direction drones are facing determines how they fly? Interesting...

[Lelouch84]

3 hours ago, bakahyl said:

Well the bad thing is that the drones disappear when Mu is hit, unlike Totsuka. However Totsuka has more startup and recovery

I'm not complaining about that because I see them as more useful in pressure resets.

[Devdan]

Just in case anybody here doesn't check the general thread: I'd file her C normals having no beam animation as an exceptionally easy to observe change.

That's the only outfit I bought so far, so I don't know if that issue exists in any other colors. I assume it will get patched, whenever somebody who speaks Japanese notices. (it's Mu, so it might take a while)

[Zeromus_X]

We can haz video thread now?

BBCF 11/22/2015 Urban Square Singles - Overture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiLhFy5JBIU&t=6m08s Orange vs Kawachi (Hakumen)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiLhFy5JBIU&t=9m20s Activate Suzuki (Kokonoe) vs Shimauta

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiLhFy5JBIU&t=58m20s Batako (Kagura) vs Orange

BBCF 11/20/2015 Tachikawa Singles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U6Z4Xiy0j4&t=11m35s Eta vs XDF (Jin)

Drones seem pretty fast/safe...Mu recovered in time to block Jin's wave super

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U6Z4Xiy0j4&t=38m23s Eta vs giketomato (Arakune)

The new SFX are so great. We literally Star Wars now

[DaiAndOh]

There seems to be invisibility glitches around the whole cast. I'm expecting it personally to get patched along with Nine.

So thinking about stein direction...they move and adjust to lock on when getting set...and can't be rotated at all right? Interesting skill to remember the direction they're facing when offscreen, if utilized correctly, could open up interesting combo and pressure opportunities...but laser is persistent if you get hit as far as pressure goes...