Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

TagAnarchy

Bedman MU tier list

Recommended Posts

Bedman players who have been playing this character for a while, I'd like your opinion. Since there are so few Bedman players it's really difficult to gauge his MUs. This is even more apparent when you realize that there are so few Bedman players and there aren't very many archives to work with since Bedman rarely appears on stream.

To this end, I just want to see if we could come up with an agreed Bedman MU tierlist between us all.

Im sure for some matchups you're going to be questioned and refuted, so you better be ready to defend you selections.

Example: http://goo.gl/bLU3WG
The ones placed on the side are what I assume the matchups are, but I don't know enough to fully back it yet.

Discuss. Any questions on my version and I'll answer it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nvmnd, I read it properly this time.

 

I personally woulda upped El a bit, but the only El I play is DarkSoul or Oso typically.  I'm glad I'm not the only one who has trouble with the May MU though.  I honestly have no idea what to say about Chipp.  I just call him a fly, because he's extremely annoying and dies when you swat him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't know why May matchup is so high.  

 I don't think Sin matchup should be worse than 5-5, maybe even advantage for Bedman.  He does a lot of damage but he doesn't have anything particularly tough to deal with imo.  He doesn't have huge anti airs (other than bull bash which I don't think is that concerning) as long as you don't do things that get hit by beak driver.  His DP is small so you can safely do some setups that other DPs will hit.  You can hit him for eating with 3H even if he's far away where others wouldn't be able to.

You forgot Millia and Zato for your list.  Millia is one of the worst but Zato matchup is ok imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Added some clarification on the chart for simpler viewing (IE: clarified where the good matchups are). http://goo.gl/v260ic

This is a general breakdown:

All the ones above 5-5: These are all characters that Bedman has a simple time with due to their linear, exploitable gameplay, low movement or ability to easily zone out. Poor Potemkin fits all 3 of those.
vs Potemkin 7-3
vs Slayer, Sol, Leo 6-4

All 5-5: Whoever gets their game going first and doesn't give up their "turn" wins.
vs Sin, Ky, Ramlethal, Elphelt, Jack-O(Assumed) 5-5

Below 5-5: These are the characters whose combination of high mobility, range, better buttons, or even more stifling pressure kills Bedman outright
vs I-No, Faust, Axl, Faust, Johnny (Assumed) 4-6
vs Venom, May, Chipp, Millia, Zato 3-7

I'll break down my specific character thoughts on request.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally woulda upped El a bit, but the only El I play is DarkSoul or Oso typically.  I'm glad I'm not the only one who has trouble with the May MU though.  I honestly have no idea what to say about Chipp.  I just call him a fly, because he's extremely annoying and dies when you swat him.

Elphelt: After thinking it through and watching a few more videos, I can actually agree with that. Not a good matchup, but even at best.

May: I find May to be like Bedman in play, but she can fill the screen with her stuff far easier and at a far faster rate. She gets better confirms off of stray dolphins and beach balls, and Bedman's larger frame and weight makes him susceptible to both her larger normals and get him hit by Potemkin-like combos. Going in on May is a test of patience since dolphins and ball take up a lot of space due to Bedman's size and lack of the usual airdash.

Chipp: You aren't wrong, Chipp is a fly. If you swat him out of the air, he dies pretty quickly. Primary issue in that is the fact that it can be so difficult to do that. While his pressure isn't stifling, all of his buttons not only beat Bedman's, but his extreme speed makes it so that if you whiff even the simplest of moves, Chipp can normally run up and punish you for it. Should Chipp feel like running away as well, Bedman doesn't have the mobility to catch him. His speed and safer buttons make this matchup a problem and a hassle to deal with. Also, screw Zansei Rouga.

 I don't think Sin matchup should be worse than 5-5, maybe even advantage for Bedman.  He does a lot of damage but he doesn't have anything particularly tough to deal with imo.  He doesn't have huge anti airs as long as you don't do things that get hit by beak driver.  His DP is small so you can safely do some setups that other DPs will hit.  You can hit him for eating with 3H even if he's far away where others wouldn't be able to.

You forgot Millia for your list.  She's one of the worst.

Sin: I did the same thing as Elphelt and took some more time to learn what he does and watch some more videos of the match. I actually agree, I just think I extremely hate CH beak driver and was a bit biased. He's pretty easy to zone out, but I wouldn't put him up with Sol and friends since his mobility is pretty decent and Beak Driver is a threat at any time since it eats projectiles.

Millia: I hate this woman. I spent most of the morning and some of the time typing this to actually learn what she does. While she doesn't have the farthest range, her speed and ability to set up her game anywhere on screen makes me feel that this is far from being in Bedman's favor. Bedman not having a DP to disrespect her pressure makes this an issue to. Where other characters can exploit holes that some Millias have, Bedman has no such reliable option outside of Sinusoidal Helios. Even then, that's a risk in itself since it's not projectile invincible. If Tandem Top (Hula Hoop) is on Bedman and Sinusoidal Helios decides not to eat it, Bedman gets hit and gets comboed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO:

I'd say Sin mu is in Bedman's favor, he doesn't have very good mixups and Bedman is one of the few who can punish eating at fullscreen. Plus Sin's an easy character to combo (except corner dust but you can just omit task a' and it'll work) while he needs many workarounds to combo Bedman effectively. I have a friend Sin main who tells me all the time how his normal combos don't work on Bedman.

"Whoever gets their turn first" -mentality doesn't really fit him well because how his calorie gauge works and he has to either sacrifice momentum or meter if he can't open you up. His slide is + on normal block but on IB it's - so with practice you can punish auto-pilot blockstrings.

Beak Driver is annoying but it doesn't shut Bedman down. While it eats projectiles 2/3hs beats it if you can space it to whiff. Sin doesn't gain much from his throw (without meter at least) so risking 6hs on oki isn't a huge wager either since Sin is not an oki heavy character. He's got damage and range but Bedman's got his airdash to move around him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO:

I'd say Sin mu is in Bedman's favor, he doesn't have very good mixups and Bedman is one of the few who can punish eating at fullscreen. Plus Sin's an easy character to combo (except corner dust but you can just omit task a' and it'll work) while he needs many workarounds to combo Bedman effectively. I have a friend Sin main who tells me all the time how his normal combos don't work on Bedman.

"Whoever gets their turn first" -mentality doesn't really fit him well because how his calorie gauge works and he has to either sacrifice momentum or meter if he can't open you up. His slide is + on normal block but on IB it's - so with practice you can punish auto-pilot blockstrings.

Beak Driver is annoying but it doesn't shut Bedman down. While it eats projectiles 2/3hs beats it if you can space it to whiff. Sin doesn't gain much from his throw (without meter at least) so risking 6hs on oki isn't a huge wager either since Sin is not an oki heavy character. He's got damage and range but Bedman's got his airdash to move around him.

I can see what you mean. So, how about this? http://goo.gl/VfFjO6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no way Bedman vs Elphelt can be 5-5

Explanation as to why?

Edit: Since this is a community agreed on MU list we're putting together, I have no issue switching it. I just want some reasoning before going and touching stuff so we can all be on the same page.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- Her normals are amazing and generally beat Bedman's so it's tough for him to poke back.

- her anti airs are gigantic.  5H and 6H can swat you from big distance.  from up close her c.S is strong anti air and due to the input it doesn't care about bedslam crossups

- sniper is extra hard to deal with because of bedman's large size and slow speed.

- shotgun is brutal in the corner.  Bedman has to rely on basics like IB, FD, Blitz to get out since he lacks reversals.  forward dash and Helios both lose to command grab

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion again Bedman vs Zato should be closer to even because how drills lose their effectiveness in this mu. Bedman can dash into them or poke with 2/3hs from a distance. Dashing into a drill and teleporting behind Zato can really screw up his Eddie-game.

Both characters lack reversals so maybe in this mu the first to take the lead -mentality would be more plausible. Both characters essentially have a pressure game that's limited by time, djv icons and Eddie-meter respectively, so "blocking better/smarter" is a legit pointer. While Zato-1 doesn't need to setup Eddie in such a way as Bedman has to setup icons, Bedman's got higher defense and he's heavier making comboing him harder than lighter characters (in matches you see nobirus hitting otg instead of relifting etc.)

Overall Bedman's just got better tools to fight him than let's say Slayer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also agree that Zato feels more manageable than most people make him sound, at least from Bedman's perspective.  The neutral works about the samex except we have air projectiles and he has nobiru.  Playing neutral in this MU just seems more plausible in this MU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering all our thoughts in this, how does this look? http://goo.gl/ddPidz

How do the hypotheticals with Jack-O and Johnny look to you folks? I think Jam v Bedman might be even based on how she operates in Reload. Even with the ability to do cardless rekkas, I don't honestly see her as that big a threat outside her movement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Id personally switch Axl and Elphelt around.  Had some local rounds against a good Axl and we were both in agreement that it felt pretty even.  For new characters, I'll only know when we get secent Jack-os.  I dont know much about Johnny beforebXrd either though, so yeah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nvmnd, I read it properly this time.

 

I personally woulda upped El a bit, but the only El I play is DarkSoul or Oso typically.  I'm glad I'm not the only one who has trouble with the May MU though.  I honestly have no idea what to say about Chipp.  I just call him a fly, because he's extremely annoying and dies when you swat him.

You play with Oso?  You must be from TX then right?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd haven't given much input mostly because I've been working a lot. At work now so I'll try to elaborate later.

I don't see May as one of Beds worst match-ups. It has always felt somewhere between 5-5 and 4-6 for me. She has the superior air game anywhere other than full screen. You really can't air to air with anything that's not j.p or you'll be eating 40% or more. On the ground her normals are nowhere near as oppressive as Elphelt's. You actually poke her out and low profile a lot of her jump ins with 2s (minus j.2h) and her zoning is very beatable as long as you aren't completely full screen. And her up close pressure game is not as risky to escape from as El or Zato. 

Elphelt is abusive. Imo it's at least 6-4 in her favor. Probably the same for Ino. For El her norms crap all over yours. And her 5s and 5h can shit down a lot due to our his big bod. As mentioned earlier her shotgun pressure requires a good deal of risk to escape since we lack a reversal. Dashing between hits requires exact timing without IB and even when successful you are still blocking unless you want to eat a knockdown.

I think Axl is fine where he is though. 

 

Sorry for lack of detail

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.mmcafe.com/tiermaker/xrd/index_customize.html?tc=ya0-tr7o5gabaqiaap7p2vac7zaddfae2ucz7zczapfm817mg1fmap7naq7m7z7nded22xabg4qwf2qt75-bkf-naGcYoshi13's Bedman MU -tiTier Chart for Guilty Gear Xrd-ct999999-c1000000-c2000000-tvFF7101-thDD3C3C-d1Very Difficult-x110-d2Bedman can bully -x210-d3-x310-d4Even or IDK-x410

 

Very difficult MUs: Chipp, Millia, Elphelt

- Chipp is a case where Bedman has a lot of difficulty getting neutral going. Task A is a large risk in this MU due to YRC Teleport or just Chipp's general movement. Also Chipp's air normals are very risky to AA (especially jD). Also Chipp's 6P is very difficult to deal with. Chipp has just too many answers and options.

- Millia is hard because of her ability to hang back and not even bother with Bedman's set-ups unless she's on the receiving end of a knockdown. She has no reason to ever be within Task C/B Dejavu range in neutral, and she can easily punish situations where you attempt to set it up. Also pin single-handedly makes the match-up incredibly difficult to deal with. Her new optimal combos shred Bedman, so she requires less hits now.

- Elphelt's insane normals are difficult to deal with as it is, but cS+throw OS can invalidate a lot of Bedman set-ups that aren't absolutely tight. Also Rifle punishes Task A free.

 

Hard: Sol

- Sol's AA options are very strong (5K and VV). Air dive kick presents a lot of problems when 6Ping him. Also jH is super annoying.

 

 

Kind of Hard:

- Zato=1 is hard, but Bedman has a lot of ways around Zato during neutral. Bedman has solid ways to navigate around little Eddie.

- Ramlethal, tracking swords make this MU very tedious to deal with, even if they are hittable now.

 

Even/Up in the air/Don't know honestly: I-No, Ky, Faust, Venom, May, Axl

- I-No's offensive options invalidates Bedman's only reversal (since she usually lands in time to throw during her oki pressure). Bedman's 2P and 5P are very strong tools in disrespecting her pressure. While Bedman does have troubles with HCL, her neutral is not amazing overall. Might be slightly in I-No's favor, but I need more experience in this MU.

- Ky is legit 5-5 I think. Ky's air-to-air normals and anti-air normals are incredibly strong, but he's fairly fundamental otherwise. With no amazing mix-ups, it's mostly a footsies match and Bedman is fairly decent at that.

- Venom is difficult to deal with in neutral, but Bedman has work arounds to avoid the balls. Might be in Bedman's disadvantage, but Venom lacks reversal options which leave him vulnerable after a knockdown.

- May is tricky and you can't go air-to-air with her frequently. Bedman's 6P is the saving grace of this MU. May's beachball is very annoying to deal with once it's out, but Bedman can react with 3H.

- Axl is a weird one. His normals make jumping and teching risky, but Axl also has a lot of troubles dealing with Task A. Bedman also can just 2P after his Sparrowhawk stance which will cover all bases. Lastly, nearly all of Bedman's most optimal combos work on Axl.

- Faust is susceptible to 1H/2H/3H a lot and somehow Faust has difficulty dealing with air Task C (I think). You can get special confirms off of Faust due to his weird hitbox. His pressure is strong, but assuming you can react to 6H, it's not that bad. Probably slightly in Faust's favor.

 

 

Bedman's favor: Slayer, Pot, Leo, Sin

- Leo has a lot of issues dealing with 1H/2H/3H due his jump arc and 5F jump. Bedman's keep away options are hard to deal with for Leo and his fireball is punishable with 3H. Also even if Leo gets the restand, Bedman is the only character that's in throwing range, allowing Bedman to perform OS throw sequences depending on what Leo does.

- Potemkin is difficult for Bedman once Pot gets in, but Pot has a lot of issues with Bedman's neutral. Honestly, this can go either way though, so Bedman doesn't absolutely crap on Pot compared to many other characters.

- Slayer is ruined a lot by Bedman's dash YRC. Slayer has solid anti-airs to deter Bedman from jumping. Mostly slayer just has issues with Bedman's traps once he gets neutral going.

- Sin hurts, but Bedman is considerably harder to bully than most characters for Sin.

 

 

That's my gist of it really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hy, playing a lot against Baykou atm, and I think Venom is one of Bedman's worst MU.

I can't zone him, I get outzoned, my task A is useless (and Bedman without the task A plays is meeee), all my normal get beat by his.

I mean, we can't even IAD over the carcass ride, our hurtbox is to big, and that is really anoying in the MU.

The teleport can help but once he knows, it's dead.

And finally when I get pressed, it's over.

Venom tools are all better then ours, so...

 

When he's cornered, he's dead, but it's a long road to get him there.

When I read that's it's an ok MU, I'd like to say: plz, teach me. :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Azzal said:

Hy, playing a lot against Baykou atm, and I think Venom is one of Bedman's worst MU.

I can't zone him, I get outzoned, my task A is useless (and Bedman without the task A plays is meeee), all my normal get beat by his.

I mean, we can't even IAD over the carcass ride, our hurtbox is to big, and that is really anoying in the MU.

The teleport can help but once he knows, it's dead.

And finally when I get pressed, it's over.

Venom tools are all better then ours, so...

 

When he's cornered, he's dead, but it's a long road to get him there.

When I read that's it's an ok MU, I'd like to say: plz, teach me. :p

This topic is for general discussion on Bedman's strengths / weaknesses vs the rest of the cast (thus making it a "tier discussion"), not for matchup Q&A.

The topic you're searching is here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forums/topic/11721-venom-vs-bedman/ (it says venom vs bedman but since the forums had the mu thread revamp both characters now have only one thread where players can post questions etc.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So considering the Revelator demo has been out for a while now and people have got a decent chance to play it, how are the matchups looking for the new characters (Jam, Johnny, Jack-O), and do the system changes make a significant change to any matchups against the existing cast?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the system changes have much impact on his matchups.

Against all 3 of the new characters I think Bedman is probably no worse than 5-5.  Even though Johnny is really strong he is a big character and lacks reversals so that works well for Bedman.  You can zone him if you're far away enough, but need to be careful if you're in range of his long normals.  Jack-O matchup could be complicated but you've got stuff to work with.  3H being able to hit her from far even when her projectile field is up is good.  2S seems good for killing houses due to quick recovery.  She has some troublesome anti airs and her 3C could go under stuff.  Dunno what to say about Jam, she just seems really "normal."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×